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Firstly forgive me if I have misinterpreted the purpose of the proposed rules forum. This thread is a forum to discuss what changes players would like to be made to the Necron armylist when their next codex is released. Mostly just for fun but hopefully any devs who take an interest in dakka might get some ideas.

Aims of this thread: The stated aim of this thread shall be to discuss possible changes to the Necron codex with the following aims

1. Make the army more competitive for the average 40k player in 5th edition

2. Make the army less confusing for new players

3. Make existing units and choices in the current codex that rarely see the tabletop more viable

4. Develop a list with more options and variety

With that out of the way let's look at some of the units/rules that need a fix

1. Necron Warriors

In the current edition Necron warriors took a massive, massive hit in effectiveness. Although still an excellent unit warriors suffer from being incredibly fragile in close combat i.e. being likely to break vs any unit capable of inflicting damage to MEQ in cc and being run down and wiped out. Considering that the unit needs to move into an enemy's assaut range to be effective this is a crippling problem for them.

Similarly their gauss special weapons are now much less effective at tankbusting than they use to be and so the necron army can no longer rely upon warriors to do the bulk of their tank killing.

So what changes are suggested

Firstly a popular and likely to happen suggestion is to change WBB to FNP. This is simultaneously a buff and a nerf. FNP in 5th edition has more weaknesses than WBB and so is much less powerful. However, it is a much simpler rule, known to all players and it has a crucial advantage other WBB. It doesn't require a necron of the same type to be within 6". The change from WBB to FNP makes smaller expensive necron units a much more viable option since they can no longer be wiped out in one turn of shooting without an attempt to self repair. Heavy destroyers and wraiths therefore both get a big boost from the change to FNP. Waht do heavy destroyers and wraiths have in common? They represent the best tankbusting options in the necron codex now and so the change to FNP negates the need for a radical change to gauss.

As for gauss, some have suggested a change from gauss to rending. Whilst this would adequately restore the former tankbusting ability of crons I a) don't think it is needed and b) would object to the sudden improved ability for crons to beat MEQ. Having said that with the prevalence of cover in 5th edition maybe gauss wouldn't be so powerful after all.

Th problem with FNP of course is that it makes the warriors a little more vulnerable, which goes against the current problems the unit has. Of course, a resurrection orb goes a long way towards fixing this but what we really need is to give the warriors a slight change to make them tougher. Some suggestions are.

Fearless.

This would seem to make the most sense but an entirely fearless army of MEQ's with FNP might be a wee bit too powerful. Still for an army of robots it is undoubtedly characterful and would go a long way towards fixing the cc problems the crons ahve moving instant death from losing a combat over a quicker death (from No Retreat)

Stubborn

Slightly different to Fearless in that it doesn't have the negative of No Retreat but does have the drawback of possibly failing LD10 and still losing the unit. I'd opt for the more characterful and slightly less powerful Fearless myself.

Toughness 5

One way to do it of course is to make crons simply tougher to kill in the first place. Cron warriors should be weak in cc but not as weak as they are now. T5 would mean a dedicated assault troop could still break and run them down quickly but would make it significantly more difficult for the average trooper. It would also be a massive buff across the line.

Relentless/Slow and Purposeful/change to the gauss blaster stats

An out of the box method for fixing the problem would be to give the crons some kind of ability that let's them fire their guns at maximum effect even if still moving. This would let them stay out of cc whilst still bringing the dakka. Possibly this would change the playstyle of necrons too much though and make them much more reliant on movement than their fluff suggests.


2. Immortals

Immortals are basically fine as is but if we change warriors we need to buff them accordingly to bring them into line. So if we make necrons T5 then Immortals need to be either T6, 2W, Fearless or some other buff in addition to their assault guns to maintain their superioirty over warriors.

That's all for tonight. I'll post the rest of my thoughts tomorrow.

I'll agree that Warriors are weak-sauce in CC. That is no lie. I don't play Necrons but I crush them often enough to know. I don't think they need that many changes though. Their shooting is still pretty good. But I think FNP and Fearless would be change enough to make warriors a little more worthwhile.

Necrons also need more HQ choices, the ones they have now are pretty limited. Run a demi-god or a Necron lord, those are your three options.

Flayed Ones as troops for starters.

BYE

the following would be nice:

changing WBB to FNP

making flayed ones troops, fearless and giving them rending but increasing their cost to 20

making immortals fearless

not making pariahs necrons, but having them count towards phase out.

making warriors fearless and giving them SaP

giving wraiths 2 wounds but increasing their cost to 45

reducing the cost of heavy destroyers by 5.

having more HQ choices, possibly different teirs of 'Cron Lord (Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum).

Regwon wrote:

not making pariahs necrons, but having them count towards phase out.

No one runs pariahs now, do you want them to ever see the table again?

Typeline wrote:

Regwon wrote:

not making pariahs necrons, but having them count towards phase out.

No one runs pariahs now, do you want them to ever see the table again?

maybe i didnt explain myself.

one of the big downsides of pariahs (dispite their tremendous cost, which should probably also be lowered) is that if you spend points on them, thats less points you can spend on necrons, so the sooner you will phase out.

rather than that situation it would be better if pariahs were taking into consideration when calculating phase out.

for example say i have 40 necrons and 8 pariahs:

currently you would have to kill 30 necrons to make me phase out, because the pariahs aren't considered.

if what i proposed was intorduced then you would have to kill 30 necrons and 6 pariahs to phase me out.

its not a perfect solution because pariahs still need a lot of work, but 36 models compared to 30 models is better no?

dont make gauss have rending that seems to good
mabey increase strength
make them always take tests on unmodified 10

Make flayed ones Rending.
Get rid of Phase Out.
Introduce another vehicle.
Change WBB to FNP.
Some sort of morale boost- Fearless or Stubborn.
Drop points on Pariahs.
More HQ choices. (At least 3 basic and some special characters)
Take away turbo boost from scarabs but make them harder to get rid of (Eternal Warrior?)

Feel No Pain also allows another CC bonus:
Currently if 6 out of 10 necron warriors are put down in CC, when initiative reaches them, there's only 4 warriors attacking back. Then afterwards, 3 will stand up from the We'll Be Back rolls (on average)
With Feel No Pain, 3 should fail the save, leaving 7 warriors to counter attack..
I think the current We'll Be Back rule isn't that confusing (I figured it out after the second round in my first game against Necrons) and it's fluffy.
Also, I believe that Stubborn is more fluffy in my opinion. Yeah, they're mindless robots, but even mindless robots are led by cool and calculating leaders who realize having their troops slaughtered wholesale in close combat is bad business, and perhaps a tactical retreat may be a worthwhile concept.
Pariahs I believe should gain We'll Be Back rolls. Why on earth would your army's elite not have the same protective capabilities of your grunts? That's like the US government taking kevlar away from our special forces.. it wouldn't happen, they're extremely valuable because of their skills and dead soldiers aren't..

themandudeperson wrote:Feel No Pain also allows another CC bonus:
Currently if 6 out of 10 necron warriors are put down in CC, when initiative reaches them, there's only 4 warriors attacking back. Then afterwards, 3 will stand up from the We'll Be Back rolls (on average)
With Feel No Pain, 3 should fail the save, leaving 7 warriors to counter attack..
I think the current We'll Be Back rule isn't that confusing (I figured it out after the second round in my first game against Necrons) and it's fluffy.
Also, I believe that Stubborn is more fluffy in my opinion. Yeah, they're mindless robots, but even mindless robots are led by cool and calculating leaders who realize having their troops slaughtered wholesale in close combat is bad business, and perhaps a tactical retreat may be a worthwhile concept.
Pariahs I believe should gain We'll Be Back rolls. Why on earth would your army's elite not have the same protective capabilities of your grunts? That's like the US government taking kevlar away from our special forces.. it wouldn't happen, they're extremely valuable because of their skills and dead soldiers aren't..

WBB, while nice and fluffly throws up a lot of rule discepancies (especially in 5th) that dont occur with FNP. it does give a slight boost in combat, but i dont think abyone would cry foul if 3 more necrons were attacking back.

the reason pariahs dont have WBB is also for fluff reasons. theyre not necrons. they werent there when the necrons made their pact with the star gods against the old ones. they dont have that necron 1000 yard stare. they arent made of living metal, theyre made of (mostly) flesh and blood. they dont have WBB because, like most stuff, once its dead, ites dead.

WBB works as a rule most of the time, but FNP is just a far simpler way of achieving mostly the same effect.

Other changes I'd make would be...

1. ResOrb gives all models within 6" or 12" a 4+ Invul Save. This may sound really powerful, but this is to avoid having to write an exception to the FNP rules, and thus Necrons get their WBB against S8+/Power Weapons. Otherwise the ResOrb rules will lead to this:

A model may take a save against an attack.
Except when the AP value is equal to or lower than their armour save, in which case no save is taken.
Except if they have Feel No Pain save, in which case they can take that.
Except if the strength of the attack is double or more their Toughness, or the attack was caused by a power weapon.
Except if they're within 6" of a RedOrb

So that'd be an exception to an exception to an exception to an exception to a rule. It's inelegant and whilst not hard to understand it is needlessly complex.

This is why the ResOrb at a flat 4+ Invul save makes far more sense from the context of giving all 'Crons a 4+ FNP save.

As far as range, I think that all units with a model within 6" would be too powerful (as it would only take a single model to give your whole army a 4+ Invul save). I also think that every model within 6" would be the opposite, and lead to very clumped armies. So a middle ground - all models (not units) that are within 12" would be a good workaround.


2. Flayed Ones as Troops.

3. Necron Warriors to WS3 or WS2. These things are not Marines, so should be hitting less. They shouldn't be able to defend themsleves in HTH as well as Marine can.

4. Immortals to T5 W2.

5. Pariahs to T5 W2 Sv2+/5+(I) I4 A3. Around 35-45 points each. These things are supposed to be the next big step in Necron advancement, so let them represent that.

That's all at the moment.

BYE

I think that the biggest change needs to be to warriors themselves, to give the army more character, and to enhance the "undead" feel of the army.

Necron Warrior 18pts
WS BS S T W A I Ld Sv
2 4 4 5 1 1 2 10 4+

Armed with Gauss Rifle
Special Rules:
Feel No Pain, Implacable (Universal special rule for Necrons)

Implacable: The Necron can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop, ever, until their enemies are dead. Necrons always take leadership tests on their basic value. They may not run, but treat difficult terrain as clear terrain. They are at -1 for all cover saves.

Gauss Rifle
Range 18" S5 Ap3 Assault 2, Rending, Gauss
For every casualty caused by a Gauss weapon, enemy leadership is at -1

Justification for this craziness
The Necrons are, basically, space undead. Right now, to me, they feel too much like Space Marines that come back from the dead, and not enough like metal skeletons holding the tortured souls of an entire race in ancient memory banks. The Necron need to be unique, sort of an army of implacable men that stop for nothing. The Implacable rule represents most of this. Necron do not panic, and retreat only for tactical reason; the number of enemy or the number of their own losses are irrelevant. They don't run, because they don't need to, Necrons just walk straight towards the enemy, gun held ready, like a Terminator, so they suffer from lesser cover saves. At the same time, they are not concerned with petty obstacles, and move through any barricade without concern.
The super-powerful Gauss weapon shown here displays the Necron's awesome technological power, and projects the horrifying nature of what is essentially an army of skeletons, as it can force retreats as though for melee. This is important, because Necron are not good at melee, which serves as their disadvantage. The idea is to place the Necron more firmly into their role, moving into rapid fire range and shooting the enemy to death as highly effective short-ranged combatants. The extra point of toughness makes it easier to do so, while the armour save drop represents the difference between thin metal bones and a man wearing a small tank. Feel no Pain should be up to most of the damage taken to the 4+ anyway, and if the ResOrb switches to 4+ invulnerable as suggested, it won't be too much of an issue.

Hmm... reduced cover saves. I actually like that. It makes sense too, as they technically aren't alive, can't really die - so in an opposite sort of way they're very similar to the Tyranids in the way that casualties are meaningless.

For the Tyranids it's that there are so many of them and if they all die the Hive Mind just makes more, and for the Necrons if they are destroyed they just phase back ot the Tomb where they are repaired.

So yeah, I like the idea of Warriors getting a reduced cover save.

Some Necron untits (I'm thinking Flayed Ones and maybe even Pariahs) would be a little more thoughtful in their actions, given their roles within the army. For them I don't think normal cover saves are a bad thing. Flayed Ones are supposed to be stealthy after all.

BYE

yeah,
Keep WBB, it's what makes them unique there is already enough units in the game with FNP.
just tweak it.
all models should have WBB, they are all 'cons!
all models should count towards Phase out, they are all 'cons! but the pecentage changed to match...
they should have a inv save maybe 4+... they are all 'cons! theyire made outta armour!!!

PaniC...

I think the problem with WBB vs FNP is that FNP is just a more elegant and easy to implement rule with much fewer situationswhere oddness results.

Plus Feel No Pain has the benefit of sounding cool and not being a dated film reference.

@open sketchbook I quite like your idea of implacable, ignores cover but is at a -1 to cover saves. It makes a lot of fluff sense and is not a confusing special rule. I don't know about the always test on basic leadership aspect as 40k already has a special rule that allows this, Stubborn. I would rather just make crons fearless as it is the simplest, fluffiest and most logical suggestion. However i can see an "all implacable units are also subject to the Stubborn" special rule working.

As for not being able to run, hmmmmm. Whilst encron wariors running full tilt does sound hilarious I can see situations where they would force march, representing what the run rule does for other races.

So I like the ignore cover with the tradeoff at -1 cover save but not the rest of the rule.

I would also suggest that implacable units may not "go to ground" as well.

That gun is too powerful for an 18pt trooper. Either up the cost, drop the strength and keep the range or drop the range and keep the strength. It also shouldn't be assault in my book.

I do like the idea that enemies that suffer a wound from gauss are at -1 Ld too. But -1 ld for every wound caused is ridiculously powerful. Bad enough you can do it in combat where the eenmy gets a chance to strike back and reduce the numbers. In shooting, with the ability for multiple squads to gang up on a unit to reduce it to ld 1 or 0 it would be too powerful by far.


As for phase out msot people here seem in favour of keeping it. To me the basic thinking behind phase out is that necrons have units that are sometimes nigh on unkillable. Monoliths and C'tan basically. Some army builds will never be able to defeat a 3 lith, nightbringer army and some forces (orks, other necrons) would struggle to beat that even if they tooled up for it. Phase out gives those armies a way to win without having to deal with the huge nasties. It also forces players to use a core of warriors which is what the designers want necron players to do.

What it unfortunately does is to stifle list building and make certain units less attractive. Taking pariahs or tomb spiders is suicide because it will drastically reduce your phase-out number.

The easiest solution, imho, is to keep phase out but have every unit in the army count towards it. The necron player is still at a disadvantage for phase out if he takes 2 monoliths over 43 warriors but units like pariahs would not be such a hindrance to the army.

So my suggestion for amy wide special rules are

1. Change WBB to Feel no Pain

2. Phase Out. The entire army dissapears if more than 25% of the models in the army are killed/destroyed

3. Gauss. Gauss weaponry strips away molecules layer by layer and is a horrifying sight to behold. Weapons with the gauss rule will wound a target on a 6 regardless of toughness and automatically glance enemy vehicles on a roll of a 6 for armour penetration. Enemy units wounded by a gauss weapon must always make a morale check even if they did not suffer 25% casualties that turn. Units that did suffer 25% casualties that turn take the morale check at -1 leadership

4. Implacable - certain units in the necron army are implacable. These unfeeling, uncaring, unreasoning monstrosities march slowly across the battlefield, little caring for what stands between them and the life they seek to destroy. Implacable units ignore difficult terrain for the purposes of movement. Implacable units wishing to use a cover save are at -1 to their cover save. Implacable units may not "go to ground."

I would limit implacable to the warriors, immortals, pariahs and lords but with lords gaining the option of removing implacable through some kind of upgrade.

With the changes to phase out and WBB units like heavy destroyers, pariahs, tomb spiders and wraiths become a lot more viable in the average necron list.

H.B.M.C your suggestion for the Resurrection Orb is inspired. The only possible situation where the existing resurrection orb is betetr is if a unit is hit by a str 8 or higher weapon that doesn't ignore their amour save. I can only think of one example (an warboss with a big choppa on the charge) of this so your simplified suggestion is sublime.

I would probably keep the every unit with a model with 6" ruling though. It isn't overpowered now (although it is nice) and it&s simpler than trying to determine if the majority members of a unit are in range or not.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
Plus Feel No Pain has the benefit of sounding cool and not being a dated film reference.

Anyone that thinks the Terminator is "dated" needs to be terminated; it's a classic. Star Wars never gets dated, does it? Same thing.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
@open sketchbook I quite like your idea of implacable, ignores cover but is at a -1 to cover saves. It makes a lot of fluff sense and is not a confusing special rule. I don't know about the always test on basic leadership aspect as 40k already has a special rule that allows this, Stubborn. I would rather just make crons fearless as it is the simplest, fluffiest and most logical suggestion. However i can see an "all implacable units are also subject to the Stubborn" special rule working.

Necrons will still retreat if they judge that there is no point in fighting. Fearless doesn't mean they never get scared, it means that they will hold no matter what, even when it's tactically foolish.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
As for not being able to run, hmmmmm. Whilst encron wariors running full tilt does sound hilarious I can see situations where they would force march, representing what the run rule does for other races.

Necrons don't need to run. It would make the army slow but hard to stop.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
I would also suggest that implacable units may not "go to ground" as well.

I agree.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
That gun is too powerful for an 18pt trooper. Either up the cost, drop the strength and keep the range or drop the range and keep the strength. It also shouldn't be assault in my book.

Assault represents the way the Necrons would use it, walking into the enemy holding it at the hip and firing indiscriminately. Dropping the range to 12" is best, as it remains powerful, but opens the unit up to counterattack.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
I do like the idea that enemies that suffer a wound from gauss are at -1 Ld too. But -1 ld for every wound caused is ridiculously powerful. Bad enough you can do it in combat where the eenmy gets a chance to strike back and reduce the numbers. In shooting, with the ability for multiple squads to gang up on a unit to reduce it to ld 1 or 0 it would be too powerful by far.

Necrons pay a lot of points to be bad at melee combat. They need an equalizer, and transporting that rule in from close combat would be such an equalizer.

Lots of very cool ideas here.....

I don't have any specific ideas because I don't play Necrons, but from my experience, I would want the changes to accomplish three things.

1. Make them more competitive - 5th killed them

2. Differentiate the necrons from marines more. Some of the suggestions in this thread would turn them into cheaper plague marines with a better gun and worse in CC...

3. Make the non-warrior/destroyer/monolith/HQ options in the list are more competitive so that Necron armies are less cookie cutter.

hancock.tom wrote:

2. Differentiate the necrons from marines more. Some of the suggestions in this thread would turn them into cheaper plague marines with a better gun and worse in CC...

Better that than regenerating marines with rending boltguns, no?

Gauss Rifle

Range 18" S5 Ap3 Assault 2, Rending, Gauss
For every casualty caused by a Gauss weapon, enemy leadership is at -1

For 18 points? Are you crazy? That kind of BS would make people quit the game.

WBB isn't too complex. It works fine as-is, and is superior to FNP. Double-strength weapons kill FNP without the possibility of save; double strength weapons kill models with WBB, and they get a chance to return next round.

If nothing else, WBB needs a clearer explanation, but it's not overly complicated by any means.

Nobody's talked at length about the Monolith. Is that because we all know it's broken?

My ideas:
Flayed Ones: rending, troops choice.
Pariahs: cost less.
Keep Phase Out.
Scarabs +1S.
Necron Warriors are fine as-is.
Immortals: Sv 2+. They cost roughly as much as Terminators - they should act like 'em.
Tiers of Necron Lord.

Arkion wrote:Gauss Rifle

Range 18" S5 Ap3 Assault 2, Rending, Gauss
For every casualty caused by a Gauss weapon, enemy leadership is at -1

WBB isn't too complex. It works fine as-is, and is superior to FNP. Double-strength weapons kill FNP without the possibility of save; double strength weapons kill models with WBB, and they get a chance to return next round.

Are you sure it isn't too complex? Because you're wrong - WBB cannot be used against a weapon "whose strength Strength is twice the Toughness of the Necron concerned."

WBB is hardly superior to FNP. Until recently, they were practically identical, with the exception of when they took place. Now, the main difference is that AP 1 and 2 weapons also deny FNP.

Consider me corrected. I have new info for my opponent.

Give the warriors vet upgrades for the units.

1. Becon-Allows the unit to stay in play even if the army is phased out. This might cost a fair amount of points but in the end that lone unit just might win the game for you. The down side to this could be that if the Upgraded warrior is killed in combat it could cause the unit to take a test and if failed said unit would phase out. The only way the unit could remain in play is if a HQ is near to remove the order of the phase out, or the HQ allows you to reroll the leader ship phase out unit test?

2. Link-Two or more units have to have this upgrade. If the units do have the upgrades, then any unit that sees an enemy unit will also allow the other units to know of its location. This allows for the other unit if in range to fire on the other unit even if they can not see it.

A Cron unit, with link upgrade sees a unit of guard behind a building.
B Cron unit, with link upgrade is allowed to fire on the guard unit out of LOS. Might have to toss in some kinda of special round or just say that the rounds path to the guard unit, or its just the ability of the guass weapon?

I think of some more tomorrow.

Holy crap opensketchbook I just spotted that your proposed ubergun was Ap3

Str5, Ap3, Assault 2 at 18"!!!!! Are you insane man. That would be the best infantry gun in the entire game. It is staggeringly broken, especially at 18 pts. That's cheaper than a plague marine or a 1000son for a model that combines the advantages of both. The necron you described is 25 - 30 pts easy and in any other army is an elite choice.

Doing the math (warning my math is terrible) 10 necrons vs 10 marines (roughly = pts in the next codex once you factor in the p-fist the squad is bound to have). Crons get to shoot first because of their insane range. 20 shots, 2/3 hit, so 13 hits, 2/3 wound so about 9 marines die leaving 1 guy taking a LD check at -9. Gvie the marines a not hard to grab 4+ cover save and yhou&re still lookig at 4.5 dying and a Ld check at leadership 5 or 4. No troop unit should be able to kill 9 marines at 18" for 180pts. It is spectacularly broken. It's even more broken against hordes where they can kill enough to force say an ork unit to test on LD 0.

I realise you want to differentiate crons from marines but I think that they alreayd are quite different.

FnP, lower assault relevant stats, a better gun and no access to transports or special weapons already differentiates them. Add in implacable, a version of gauss that forces morale checks and fearless or stubborn and they are already a very different from your standard marine. Further differentiation comes from the very different other choices in the list. Marines don't have monoliths, resurrection orb weilding lords, c'tan, turbo-boosting swarms, etc, etc.

So what we have so far then

1. FNP instead of WBB

2. Change to phase out so that every model counts towards it

3. Change to gauss to either make it a rending weapon or give it some kind of morale effecting ability

4. Necron warriors to go down to WS2 but gain some kind of leadership boost (either stubborn or fearless) and possibly gain an "implacable" rule

5. Necron Immortals to be changed to bring them into line with revised warriors (i.e. to gain implacable and either fearless or stubborn) plus either a 2nd wound or a 2+ armour save.



6. So now the big one, pariahs.

There are a host of small changes one could make to pariahs. Already the change to phase out makes them a more viable option but even then they really are lacking as an assault troop. Any one of these changes makes the unit better and the more that we adopt the betetr the unit becomes.

Possible changes are

give them another attack - which seems like a no-brainer

give them 2 more attacks - which may be a wee bit too powerful

give them FNP - which would make them better and more in line with the rest of the army but isn't very fluffy

allow them to teleport - which lets them fit into the way necrons usually handle combat

up their basic save to 2+ - a better option to FNP

a 5+ invulnerable - considering they can grab a 4+ from the res orb or a 56 from cover (-1 for implacable) imho it isn't needed

make them cheaper.

For me upping the save, let them teleport, an extra attack and count towards phase out for about the same pts or slightly cheaper would see more pariahs on the field.

However what about a really radical re-think. What is the best thing about pariahs? The warscythe? Try again, it's souless and their ability to reduce enemy units to LD7. Team this with our proposed change to gauss and you have a nasty combo with pariahs. They reduce the Ld, crons pour in the gauss fire and whatever you targeted dies. Hell, pariahs can do it themselves with their gauss blasters.

So what about a re-think that focuses upon souless and the background to pariahs. Soulless individuals are supposed to be incredibly rare. The imperium can only harness them as assassins. So how come the necrons are capable of fielding entire squads of the buggers?

My idea is for pariahs not to function as squads but rather to function either

as an elite IC choice that can then go off to help a warrior or flayed one unit, adding a warscythe and his LD reducing bubble to turn a regular unit into a nasty combat unit.

or

as an elite choice similar to death cult assassins. 3 "individual" units that cannot join the necrons (they are, after all, pariahs) but can spread across the table reducing LD and adding a few warsycthe swings in combination with bi units of warriors. Possibly as a 0-1 choice.

Don't like this idea? Well most people have been clamouring for a 3rd HQ choice so what about a Pariah HQ? A buffed up pariah with an improved save and access to some basic wargear (some kind of invulnerable perhaps) to do the same thing bu using up a HQ slot. To keep things fluffy the codex could stipulate that a necron lord or c'tan (or lord with advanced carapace as rumour has it) MUST be in the army. The buffed pariah then only exists to add some cc power and his awesome soulless rule.

I wrote the 18 points first, than had the idea for the AP3 gun. However, the idea of keeping it appeals to me. Just bump the warrior to, say, 26 points apiece. A real elite elite army.

26 minimum, and yeah, that'd be fair... 28 would feel more balanced. I'd actually have no problem gaming against a unit like that, as long as Phase Out were still part of the equation =)

Still, I don't think making necrons STRONGER is the solution. I think making necrons more adaptable / flexible / interesting is what'll help.

People like 'crons because:
1) easy to paint
2) elite army - not a lot of $ to get started
3) Monoliths
4) cool undead theme
5) lack of options makes them paint-and-play - you can start gaming with 'em right away (unlike, say, Tyranids or Tau, which require an understanding of army building and biomorphs to really get the hang of it).

As long as we can keep all those positive aspects, we're golden.

And I *REALLY* think the Monolith should get nerfed. It's honestly a ridiculous model that has super-powers and breaks too many rules.

Last tourney I was at, there were 5 Necron players, all with 'Liths.

You could tell who was playing against 'crons by listening to the sighs as people saw the Liths hitting the table. They're just such a piss-off unit.

It doesn't need to be AP3. Rending is enough.

And 18 points is maximum. You can't build a real army if the cost of basic troops gets too high. Just ask any current Deathwing player...

BYE

Pariahs need to be a squad upgrade to a warrior squad. Sort of like a vet sgt.

No, Warriors are mindless drones. They don't need squad leaders. And there are far too few Pariahs in the fluff to have them lead all your squads.

Cheese Elemental wrote:No, Warriors are mindless drones. They don't need squad leaders. And there are far too few Pariahs in the fluff to have them lead all your squads.

But there are enough to gather them together in squads?

Sorry it just seems as if there aren't enough to be singular models spread around your squads, then there shouldn't be enough to form entire units of them either.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Cheese Elemental wrote:No, Warriors are mindless drones. They don't need squad leaders. And there are far too few Pariahs in the fluff to have them lead all your squads.

But there are enough to gather them together in squads?

Sorry it just seems as if there aren't enough to be singular models spread around your squads, then there shouldn't be enough to form entire units of them either.

BYE

Hence my suggestion. Make them either elite choice IC's a la Inquisitors or 0-1 3 per choice "Independent" units like death cult assassins.


And I agree, squadron leaders for necrons just seems weird. Especially an upgrade that allows units to stay on the table after phase out (which would be such a no brainer every unit would have it.)