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2000 is what we play at in my area at every tourney.

So taking a HQ and a Troop from a list is a tax for my Chaos Marines...ok I pick Fateweaver and a squad of Plaguebearers. Chosen infiltrate with an icon, first turn Fateweaver and 8 Bloodcrushers deep strike in right beside you while Obliterators and Plaguemarines crush you with combined firepower.

Gotta love that "tax"

So, they brought back Hull points and variable Psyker disciplines going back to RT it seems. So many more rules added in, be a while to sort through it all.

Oh and that jump in price really can put some off, I will see how much they charge for a starter box with mini rule book.

Sorry if someone has already asked/covered this in the thread but didn't fancy reading through a billion pages so...

WHAT THE FETHMONGERING HELL WERE THEY SMOKIN' WITH THAT ALLIANCE SETUP?

SoB + Black Templars = Unholy Alliance
SoB + Blood Angels = Grudging Allies

Black Templars have a special rule (tactic) called Abhor the Witch.
SoB are originally Witch Hunters... Who dropped the ball on that one?! Even more bemusing is the fact that SoB have no psychic powers and show amazing devotion to the Emperor with Acts of Faith; something I'd imagine the Templars would hold in extremely high regards.
Blood Angels are fething vampires for crying out loud. A unit of Flesh Tearers (BA successors) LITERALLY slaughtered a SoB battle-line.
COME ON?!

Eldar + Dark Eldar = Brothers in Arms

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?

Space Marines + Tau = Brothers in Arms?

I could go on, but come on guys... Seriously?
There's not a facepalm meme good enough to sum this BS up.

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Would someone with a reddit account please post in that thread asking about Heavy Vehicles/Deep Striking/Ordnance Shooting? Basically, I want to figure out if it is once again viable to Deep Strike my Monolith onto the board without worrying about it never getting to the battlefield, or if the the only benefit that tactic got is the slightly less lethal mishap table, and if it can fire all of its guns while moving or if the ordnance rule still prohibits that.

Guy with the book finished answering questions a long time ago.

Therion your doing it wrong...

1 IG hq (who cares)
2 IG troops (who cares)

18 vendetta's (thats 54 twin linked lascannon shots)

The ONLY thing about allies I like, is that this would allow me to take actual Daemons in a CSM list.

Hmmm I am struggling to see how Dark Eldar will work in this edition based off these threads and rumors etc.

I can't wait to look in the book and work out how this edition will plan out.

Fingers crossed this isn't some psychotic edition that alienates and destroys the fun of the game.

After all there are a lot of players that are just interested in social gaming and these new rules seem crazy and hell bent on massive collections, spam lists and rules loops.

Reivax26 wrote:2000 is what we play at in my area at every tourney.

So taking a HQ and a Troop from a list is a tax for my Chaos Marines...ok I pick Fateweaver and a squad of Plaguebearers. Chosen infiltrate with an icon, first turn Fateweaver and 8 Bloodcrushers deep strike in right beside you while Obliterators and Plaguemarines crush you with combined firepower.

Gotta love that "tax"

Go on then, not like the other armys cant ally with grey knights and bring in some heavy hitters to take out all your daemons with ease.

Thats the thing, for every person who thinks they have just created an amazing list, 30 others can come up with another crazy combo to counter it

Welcome to confusion-Hammer

Brother Axel wrote:there's not a facepalm meme good enough to sum this BS up.

How about one for people who didn't read the thread, and so missed that the chart you're complaining about isn't from the 6th ed rulebook...?

tuiman wrote:

Reivax26 wrote:2000 is what we play at in my area at every tourney.

So taking a HQ and a Troop from a list is a tax for my Chaos Marines...ok I pick Fateweaver and a squad of Plaguebearers. Chosen infiltrate with an icon, first turn Fateweaver and 8 Bloodcrushers deep strike in right beside you while Obliterators and Plaguemarines crush you with combined firepower.

Gotta love that "tax"

Go on then, not like the other armys cant ally with grey knights and bring in some heavy hitters to take out all your daemons with ease.

Thats the thing, for every person who thinks they have just created an amazing list, 30 others can come up with another crazy combo to counter it

Which is exactly what's wrong with the Allies rules.

I don't want to have to play against some crazy combo. I expect to say no to a lot of store opponents.

insaniak wrote:

Brother Axel wrote:there's not a facepalm meme good enough to sum this BS up.

How about one for people who didn't read the thread, and so missed that the chart you're complaining about isn't from the 6th ed rulebook...?

Wasn't the one in the book confirmed to be the same thing?
From that reddit thread iirc.

rigeld2 wrote:Wasn't the one in the book confirmed to be the same thing?
From that reddit thread iirc.

It was, yes.

It was confirmed that who could ally with whom was the same. If it was also confirmed that the 'levels' of alliance are the same, I missed it.

We really should make allies and their implications a separate thread from the rumor main thread. It's engulfed this poor thread to the point there isn't any other constructive discussion of anything else.

It's true At least since page 40. It could easily be its own thread. I need that book to just come out already. Five or so years of an edition and I can't wait another weak! What can I say.

shasolenzabi wrote:Welcome to confusion-Hammer

Ive been calling it VehicleHammer myself....though AlliesHammer might do as well...

KGatch113 wrote:

tuiman wrote:

Reivax26 wrote:2000 is what we play at in my area at every tourney.

So taking a HQ and a Troop from a list is a tax for my Chaos Marines...ok I pick Fateweaver and a squad of Plaguebearers. Chosen infiltrate with an icon, first turn Fateweaver and 8 Bloodcrushers deep strike in right beside you while Obliterators and Plaguemarines crush you with combined firepower.

Gotta love that "tax"

Go on then, not like the other armys cant ally with grey knights and bring in some heavy hitters to take out all your daemons with ease.

Thats the thing, for every person who thinks they have just created an amazing list, 30 others can come up with another crazy combo to counter it

Which is exactly what's wrong with the Allies rules.

I don't want to have to play against some crazy combo. I expect to say no to a lot of store opponents.

If I come up against people like you, I will happily play and not use the allies rules, and those that want them I will play them to.

I side both ways and will not rule out playing anyone because of it

But everyone (exception tyranids) can ally, so we are all on the level of 'power' in that regard, now I'm not saying that I am for allies, but for example if you go to a tournie, and loose out as lots of people are using allies, you should have no right to complain, as you chose not to take them. You can't blame opponents for that. I will play a mixture of both with and without to start, just to see how it all pans out, and just to mix it up from time to time, then again, its not like I could not do that anyway.

If I come up against people like you, I will happily play and not use the allies rules, and those that want them I will play them to.

I will not rule out playing anyone because of it

Brother Axel wrote:Eldar + Dark Eldar = Brothers in Arms

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?

Actually, this one makes sense if you accept the old adage that blood is thicker than water. The differences between Eldar & Dark Eldar are basically political and not like the loyalist/chaos drama from the Horus Heresy. Think of the relationship as more "self-absorbed civilian" Eldar vs. "hard-line militant" Eldar instead of Chaos Eldar vs. Army Eldar. A member of a DE Cabal could easily have relatives, even siblings, following a path on one of the Craftworlds and vice versa. They may not like the other's decisions but I doubt they actually hate each other. Also, both can take Harlequins so there's a pretty strong connection there. I expect that when it serves their needs they'll ally up quickly, especially if Harlequins are pushing the agenda.

Can't wait to get my Gamer's Edition if only to put rumors to rest!

Garnished some stuff about flyers in one of the rulebook menu's + pause button and decent vision.

If you watch the video in that link you can actually read some of the flyer rules. Its crazy that you can move 18" or 36" and still fire 4 weapons. In addition, you can only pivot 90 degree's before moving and if your in zoom mode you have to go over 18" or you wreck but you can fly off the board and come back via reserves etc... Also if you get immobilized now you stay at the same speed and cant turn just driving endlessly straight in the same direction. Lastly, if the vehicle is wrecked good luck to any inside S10 hit with no armor save.

insaniak wrote:It was confirmed that who could ally with whom was the same. If it was also confirmed that the 'levels' of alliance are the same, I missed it.

Yeah he said the chart was exactly the same as far as he could tell, but the one in the rule book was 'prettier'.

To all the people who fear a doubled FOC will make the game terrible for all, here is a tau list @ 2000 points

HQ - Shas'el - 120
HQ - Shas'el - 120
Troop - 6x FW, warfish - 180
Troop - 6x FW, warfish - 180
Troop - 7x FW
Troop - 7x FW

(minimums to unlock the Double FOC)
Heavy - Railhead -165
Heavy - RailHead - 165
Heavy -RailHead - 165
Heavy - 3x XV88 + 2 shield drones - 280
Heavy - 3x XV88 + 2 Shield Drones - 280
Heavy - 2x XV88 + 2 shield drones - 200

Total - 1995 (if my math is right)

So even Tau, one of the oldest books, can field 11 Rail guns, 8 of them twin-linked and all mobile. Someone brings a list using all vendettas? Go 2nd and full reserve, the flyers will zoom on and do nothing, then we have an actual chance to nail them down to the ground. Maybe it's not the best list vs the vendetta swarm posted earlier, but having not played any 6th ed games we've yet to see what will rise to the top.

I think the players will adapt to 6th fine.

I am actually really excited about a lot of the rules, it really seems to create a cinematic battle. My friends and I always love to talk about how things are happening on the battle field.and the cool things built into the rules make it much more fun. Like I cant wait for our first flier to get shot down and actually land on a unit. I will imagine the Ork driving it, not actually getting hit by a bullet but getting board and going for the real Dakka

MadCowCrazy wrote:

Lysenis wrote:HOLY FETH! You mean to say that as a BA player I can take now 6 Vindicators! Better yet I can take 6 Devastator Squads with Missiles! . . . wait. . . then this means that SW can have 6 long fang squads. . . Well that it folks SWs are still broken as gak.

Tsk tsk tsk... you think to small my child..... GKs with 12 units of Death Cults.... now THAT is broken as gak

*shivers* Yes you are quite right. . . . God what about all the Purifiers! 12 squads as troops!

tetrisphreak wrote:
Let's give it a month or three before declaring the new system broken. all armies have access, all armies have a chance to counter-punch.

My Tyranids would like a word with you...

Lysenis wrote:

MadCowCrazy wrote:

Lysenis wrote:HOLY FETH! You mean to say that as a BA player I can take now 6 Vindicators! Better yet I can take 6 Devastator Squads with Missiles! . . . wait. . . then this means that SW can have 6 long fang squads. . . Well that it folks SWs are still broken as gak.

Tsk tsk tsk... you think to small my child..... GKs with 12 units of Death Cults.... now THAT is broken as gak

*shivers* Yes you are quite right. . . . God what about all the Purifiers! 12 squads as troops!

If that means fewer psyflemen on the table, and rhinos die to 3 glancing hits...I"m for it!

Remember we're discussing extra SLOTS. both players still have a fixed number of POINTS to spend.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

streamdragon wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:
Let's give it a month or three before declaring the new system broken. all armies have access, all armies have a chance to counter-punch.

My Tyranids would like a word with you...

Sorry....

I played 'nids through the majority of 5th but gave up the ghost for blood angels about 3 months ago...

InventionThirteen wrote:Hmmm I am struggling to see how Dark Eldar will work in this edition based off these threads and rumors etc.

I can't wait to look in the book and work out how this edition will plan out.

Fingers crossed this isn't some psychotic edition that alienates and destroys the fun of the game.

After all there are a lot of players that are just interested in social gaming and these new rules seem crazy and hell bent on massive collections, spam lists and rules loops.

I'm totally worried about my precious Dark Eldar as I cannot see anything that helps them. Either move your raider 12" and then hope it doesn't get destroyed or move it 6" and then pray to god you can get off a full 12" charge.
My main opponent uses a Blood Angels DoA and that's the one assault army which becomes incredibly buffed in the new rules.
I've relied on moving my raiders 12", jumping out and their fleeting into combat or shooting and charging, that tactic will be hard to pull off now.
Just will have to wait until the book and updates are out and hope its not as bad as it appears on face value

tetrisphreak wrote:

Lysenis wrote:

MadCowCrazy wrote:

Lysenis wrote:HOLY FETH! You mean to say that as a BA player I can take now 6 Vindicators! Better yet I can take 6 Devastator Squads with Missiles! . . . wait. . . then this means that SW can have 6 long fang squads. . . Well that it folks SWs are still broken as gak.

Tsk tsk tsk... you think to small my child..... GKs with 12 units of Death Cults.... now THAT is broken as gak

*shivers* Yes you are quite right. . . . God what about all the Purifiers! 12 squads as troops!

If that means fewer psyflemen on the table, and rhinos die to 3 glancing hits...I"m for it!

Remember we're discussing extra SLOTS. both players still have a fixed number of POINTS to spend.

I am considering that it is just rather crazy. Even with 12 Psyrifle dreads they still have to field 2 HQs minimum and 4 Troops minimum. Since I do not have the codex in front of me CAN Grey Knights still do 12 Psyrifle dreads after that? even going cheap?

Therion wrote:

Homework assignments, people!

I already posted the IG army a page or two ago which would do absolutely brilliantly. 40 scoring IG models is easily enough at 2000 points when the fact remains they will table a vast majority of their opponents. If you don't think killing will play a large role you're only kidding yourself.

Here's a 2K Necron list for your entertainment. I think it goes rather well with the IG list that I posted. This one has allies, but just taking 5 or 6 Doom Scythes is so boring:

-Imotekh the Stormlord
-Chronotek
-Company Command Squad + Officer of the Fleet + 3 Flamers + Chimera Armoured Transport
-5 Warriors + Night Scythe
-5 Warriors + Night Scythe
-5 Warriors + Night Scythe
-5 Warriors + Night Scythe
-10 Veterans + 3 Meltaguns
-Vendetta + Heavy Bolters
-Doom Scythe
-Doom Scythe
-Doom Scythe
-Manticore

This may be a dumb question but ... will all those flyers fit on the table top?

Yup but barely.