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Vanguard vets………...125
Sergeant hammer……..15
4 more hammers……...120
5 storm shields………..75
Jump packs……………50
5 plasma pistols………..75
Total…………………..460

Note:when i say "hammer" i mean thunder hammer

if you see this coming you know your screwed i total slaughter the new rules for vanguards
their flying termys in my books its just ............ and it only cost 43 dollars before tax if you order through GW
if you have any good tactices for theys bad asses please post

PROFANITY REMOVED
PLEASE USE MORE APPROPRIATE LANGUAGE IN THE FUTURE
WAAAGH_GONADS

460 points for 5 guys?

Sure you may kill that squad you hit in HtH, but what about after when you are hanging in wind. Massed fire makes a mockery of 3+ armor.

I like it. A lot.

G

ridon wrote:Vanguard vets………...125
Sergeant hammer……..15
4 more hammers……...120
5 storm shields………..75
Jump packs……………50
5 plasma pistols………..75
Total…………………..460

Note:when i say "hammer" i mean thunder hammer

if you see this coming you know your screwed i total slaughter the new rules for vanguards
their flying termys in my books its just .... and it only cost 43 dollars before tax if you order through GW
if you have any good tactices for theys bad asses please post

Sorry to burst your bubble but, first of all, that list is illegal.

You cannot arm a trooper with a Hammer + Stormshield + Plasma pistol. You can only replace your bolt pistol and/or your CCW. You could have a Hammer + a plasma pistol. Or a plasma pistol + a shield. But not all three.

Secondly, if this was legal, it'd still be weak. After one round of decent shooting you'll lose several or all of them. 385 points for the unit w/o the illegal 3rd weapon plasma pistols.

For 370 points someone could get 2 10-man tactical squads, total of 2 plasma cannons, 2 plasma guns, 16 guys with bolters.

If you landed your flying squad 17" away, they could move both squads 6" towards you, then rapid fire you. 32 bolter shots, 21.33 hits, 10.67 wounds, 3.56 of your veterans dead from bolters.
4 plasma gun shots, 2.66 hit, 2.22 wound, 0.74 more die.
2 bolt pistol shots (plasmacannondudes), 1.33 hit, 0.67 wound, 0.22 dead.

So on average one turn's moving-and-shooting the 370 points of tacticals will kill 4.52 of your 5 vanguard assaulters. It's a 50% chance you'll have one left over. That's in only ONE turn of shooting. If they get to fire 2 plasma cannons on you earlier, you'll never see it into melee alive.

That unit is not good at all. Even if you pull of the heroic intervention, the unit dies to small arms fire the turn after it kills a unit and costs as much as 10 t.hammer termies.

Haha, I like the vote results though, either yes, or yes!

another nOOb attempt at powergaming looks like....

I'll be the first one to rejoice when a solid use for Vanguard is posted, still waiting for that time.

Id say go for dual lightning claws with maybe one sgt thunder-hammer or relic blade (to keep the squad fighting at I)

A power weapon & storm shield is probably more worthwhile but you loose 4 attacks & the ability to re-roll 4/5ths of them to wound..

always take 5 meltabombs so you can actually concider popping dreds/skimmers. (forget monoliths)

If you were actually going to do this Id suggest you concider using a few locator beacons either on a few drop pods (put 2 on three pods which would act as a good core) or scout bikers.

Shrike again could make this unit that much more awesome with fleet, combine the vanguard with some outflanking assault sqauds.

Basically, if you do go for that kinda unit, capitolise on it.

To answer the poll: It's not awesome.


To be nice and constructive, personally, IF I was gonna go for vanguard assaulters w/ jet packs, I might make a squad like...

Total: 410 points
3 Vanguard w/ Bolt Pistol + CCW + Meltabombs
2 Vanguard w/ Bolt Pistol + Storm Shield + Meltabombs
2 Vanguard w/ Bolt Pistol + Thunder Hammer
1 Champ w/ Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield (in case some enemy w/ a rule forcing him to challenge champs or somethin, who knows)

When enemy shoots you with non-AP weapons like regular Bolters, allocate the wounds onto the non-Storm Shield vanguard (the fodder)
When enemy shoots you with things like a Lascannon, allocate the wounds onto the Storm Shield guys (the shields)

If you buy a shield+hammer for every member, you're losing horribly when non-AP fire like machine guns and bolters guns down your expensive dudes.
If you regularly fight a lot of super units like nob bikers with lots of powerfist-type things, you might want to also add shields to the thunder hammer dudes.

Either way, this unit will be expensive and somewhat fragile to infantry fire. A terminator's 2+ save means it takes twice as many normal shots to kill one than to kill a storm shield vanguard. He also comes with at least a 5+ invulnerable for free.

You can afford a full 10man Terminator Assault squad w/ 10 Hammers+Shields for less than the 410 points for my sample vanguard unit. That would probably be more useful in 99% of cases.

The best use for them I have seen is a plain-jane version of assault squad without jumppacks. A squad of 10 comes in at 225 vs. 205 for assault squad and you get 9 more base attacks. The Vanguard sgt has a powersword so to make the comparison I added one to the assault squad sgt. So for 20 more points you get 9 more attacks.
You don't need to fully boat the unit, but a relic blade and a few power weapons lets you roll through troops and mid-level units.
Without an invuln save, they don't hold up very well, but a librarian with Force Dome is cheaper than storm shields and doesn't take away the dual weapon attack.

Personally I would really enjoy facing this squad. 5 wounds for that many points would be a target for all of my heavy firepower (if it was legal). The lack of attacks would be a big issue for me too if I ran that squad.

exactly, vanguard are garbage, there is no reason to take them that I can see. I am with Deadshane, I will be happy to see a use for them, or for honor guard for that matter. other than fluff or cool model value, these guys are not worth it.

Assault termies trump all other assault troops in the Marine codex right now. For effeiciency, terminators all the way. Combo them with Shrike and they get fleet of foot. That is nasty.

Vanguard just get killed like regular marines.

I mean, for 5 models you get nowhere near the hitting power or staying power of 10 assault terminators. Actually, you would be better off with 2 full scout squads.

As for taking vanguard on foot, I would still rather have assault marines as they are so much faster. Maybe if you combod a unit on foot with pedro and a chaplain in a LRC you would have something, but still, Termies do it better for cheaper.

Uhm, is this just dakka being trolled?!

pavonis wrote:The best use for them I have seen is a plain-jane version of assault squad without jumppacks. A squad of 10 comes in at 225 vs. 205 for assault squad and you get 9 more base attacks. The Vanguard sgt has a powersword so to make the comparison I added one to the assault squad sgt. So for 20 more points you get 9 more attacks.
You don't need to fully boat the unit, but a relic blade and a few power weapons lets you roll through troops and mid-level units.
Without an invuln save, they don't hold up very well, but a librarian with Force Dome is cheaper than storm shields and doesn't take away the dual weapon attack.

thats hte cost without the jump packs..add those in adn its more like 325 for plain jane.


I do run them and have had great success.

I run my along with my Captain on Bike with relic and digital weapons.

this is how I kit the unit..comes to 455
3x power weapons
3X storm shields,pistols
2x reg pistol,cc
1xFist
Sarge with Relic
all with jump packs.

ridon wrote:Vanguard vets………...125
Sergeant hammer……..15
4 more hammers……...120
5 storm shields………..75
Jump packs……………50
5 plasma pistols………..75
Total…………………..460

Note:when i say "hammer" i mean thunder hammer

if you see this coming you know your screwed i total slaughter the new rules for vanguards
their flying termys in my books its just ............ and it only cost 43 dollars before tax if you order through GW
if you have any good tactices for theys bad asses please post

Do this!

Take 3 of these squads to your next tournament.

It will rule the table!

i see know that the pistols are illegal o well it still awesome for apocalypse if it was 10 man the poll is a joke

sorry it actaly $44 before tax for one of thees squads

@Reecius (and Deadshane)

I have seen one way of making Vanguard useful. It involves an Apocalypse game and the 'Replacements' asset.

Basically, 10x vanguard with PW land with heroic intervention (near one of the many beacon-equipped pods and scout bike units that you've thrown on the board), wipe out one or two squads, then die horribly.
Replacements then lets them come back and do it all again! The asset effectively makes them 2 for the price of 1.

Other than this one, very limited scenario, they are utter gak.

well i have play tested them allot and they are good for taking on stompas and other super heavy s and well it wa kind of funny the first time



Automatically Appended Next Post:

mrdabba wrote:

pavonis wrote:The best use for them I have seen is a plain-jane version of assault squad without jumppacks. A squad of 10 comes in at 225 vs. 205 for assault squad and you get 9 more base attacks. The Vanguard sgt has a powersword so to make the comparison I added one to the assault squad sgt. So for 20 more points you get 9 more attacks.
You don't need to fully boat the unit, but a relic blade and a few power weapons lets you roll through troops and mid-level units.
Without an invuln save, they don't hold up very well, but a librarian with Force Dome is cheaper than storm shields and doesn't take away the dual weapon attack.

actually storm shield give you +1 attacks and id have to say that they look cooler

Taking them on foot and putting them in a Landraider is mildly useful if you have Shrike in your army.

Thats it.


Take a Relic Blade and the Occasional Powerweapon. Put a Chaplain with them like Cassius. You get like 8 more attacks than normal but that is it otherwise they're completely and utterly pointless.


Ten Man Squad of Vanguard w/ 40 attacks 225

Landraider Redeemer 265


so it comes out to 490


A 5 man Terminator squad w/ Redeemer is 465.


I dunno why you would take it but whateva.

The squad is rubbish, and I kinda laughed because both options on the Poll are "yes."

ridon wrote:
actually storm shield give you +1 attacks and id have to say that they look cooler

Maybe this is why you think the squad is so awesome, sadly Storm Shields do not do this. (but I agree they look cooler)

Trash. The kinda trash you find that you left under the couch and that explains the smell thats been seeping all around you for the past week ruining your TV watching experience. Yes it's that awesomely bad.

I basically see a DURR IM IN DA OPENS AND AM THE COST OF A LR + TERMIANTORS BUT I ARE WORSE AND NO COVER AND BLAAARGGGHHH FOCUS FIRE FTL!

i find they work perfectly fine instead of temys thats why i get them stuckin with genesteallers and carnys there always stricking last so just give it you best shot. also good for chareter sniping on 2nd turn if you can get them to come in

Ok...

Here's what I'll bring to that.

Lash Sorcerer

3 Oblits.

Yeah, nice try, troll...

Cryonicleech wrote:Ok...

Here's what I'll bring to that.

Lash Sorcerer

3 Oblits.

Yeah, nice try, troll...

Actually, you can bring 4 Oblits and a Lash Daemon Prince for 5 points less than that squad costs.

Troll, noob, or just really easily excited... I'm not sure which one I'd use to describe the OP.

It starts with a unit that was illegally put together, which indicates not much time actually reading the unit entry.

Then the post gets modhammered to take out the junk in the post.

Then the rules mix up with the Storm Shield the OP doesn't address...

/shrug.

Go with what you want to play with, but that squad is not impressive in normal 40K.
Now if we go into the realm of APOC, well... anything goes then.

Why does this thread keep getting necro'd? Let it die! Let it die!

Wow, double necro'ed

Go top 'yes' we can overtake that terrible bottom 'yes'