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How much should a storm trooper cost if his hellgun is ap3.

I dunno...11 points? He is superior to a Firewarrior in stats, and his gun, against Power Armour and assuming it's still Rapid Fire, 24" and S3 is probably (taking ease of wounding into account) about on par with a Pulserifle.

16 pts If i have to guess.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:I dunno...11 points? He is superior to a Firewarrior in stats, and his gun, against Power Armour and assuming it's still Rapid Fire, 24" and S3 is probably (taking ease of wounding into account) about on par with a Pulserifle.

Hell gun is 18" S3 AP3 Rapid Fire. Compared to a 4 point Guardsman, I'd put it at about 10 points.

10 pts at most, and 9 seems more reasonable. If they have Infiltrate, can convey it to a Valk, have defensive grenades, have the option for reasonably-priced assault weapons x2, and can hop out of a Valk after moving 24" and still fire, THEN they're worth 11.

A stormtrooper hits slightly more often, and survives slightly more often, but it's still a T3 model shooting a S3 weapon. Paying more than twice a standard guardsman is worth is marginal. If Mr. Stormtrooper isn't a scoring unit, he needs a discount.

If Stormtroopers are the only way to get Valks into the army, I'd expect them to be 8 pts/model: GW has a new plastic Valk to sell, on top of new plastic Storm Troopers in the pipeline.

I think they'll be worth about 12 points... I think they'll cost about 8 or 9.

New codices make units more powerful and cheaper. It's the trend of things.

willydstyle wrote:I think they'll be worth about 12 points... I think they'll cost about 8 or 9.

New codices make units more powerful and cheaper. It's the trend of things.

If they're only 8 points, I see myself plopping down the money for 2 more squads of DKoK Grenadiers and at least 2 more Valks.

Platuan4th wrote:

willydstyle wrote:I think they'll be worth about 12 points... I think they'll cost about 8 or 9.

New codices make units more powerful and cheaper. It's the trend of things.

If they're only 8 points, I see myself plopping down the money for 2 more squads of DKoK Grenadiers and at least 2 more Valks.

That's the whole point

Rumour has it that the ap3 isnt the base AP of the gun.

More like it will be an ability that the Stormtroopers have, sort of like how Dire Avengers Bladestorm.

....so its not QUITE as good as you guys are thinking. Still good but if you go AP3 then lose a turn of shooting it limits the weapon just a little bit.

Deadshane1 wrote:Rumour has it that the ap3 isnt the base AP of the gun.

More like it will be an ability that the Stormtroopers have, sort of like how Dire Avengers Bladestorm.

....so its not QUITE as good as you guys are thinking. Still good but if you go AP3 then lose a turn of shooting it limits the weapon just a little bit.

The French reference sheet just says AP3, no notes about special rules.
It might be different but that's what we have.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:Rumour has it that the ap3 isnt the base AP of the gun.

More like it will be an ability that the Stormtroopers have, sort of like how Dire Avengers Bladestorm.

....so its not QUITE as good as you guys are thinking. Still good but if you go AP3 then lose a turn of shooting it limits the weapon just a little bit.

The French reference sheet just says AP3, no notes about special rules.
It might be different but that's what we have.

Well, thats news to me...wow.

I kind of hope that's false...seems a bit good for a guardsman.

Deadshane1 wrote:Well, thats news to me...wow.

I kind of hope that's false...seems a bit good for a guardsman.

It's also listed at 18" Range, Rapid Fire.

Range wont make too much difference when you're jumping out of a valkrie that just landed.

Deadshane1 wrote:Range wont make too much difference when you're jumping out of a valkrie that just landed.

You're right, I'm just still finding an 18" Rapid Fire weapon a bit silly.

Yep, meaningless drawbacks to justify lower points cost for the win.

willydstyle wrote:I think they'll be worth about 12 points... I think they'll cost about 8 or 9.

New codices make units more powerful and cheaper. It's the trend of things.

This is 40k not fantasy

If you've not seen the french leak is here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/20411-.html?w=600

There's no way on this earth that they're worth as much or more than a Sister of Battle. They're 11. You want Stormies to be worth it? You make 'em 8 points. Guard Elite unit worth twice the cost of a Guardsman. Because at the end of the way, regardless of what gun he's got, he's still a T3 model with an Armour Save that doesn't matter (most weapons ignore it, most things in 5th Ed have a 4+ Cover save anyway, making Carapace and below pointless).

BYE

youbedead wrote:How much should a storm trooper cost if his hellgun is ap3.

And if his Hellgun is cut to R18"?

10 points, max.

He's still a S3 T3 guy with a S3 RF gun in a sea of 4-pt S3 T3 guys with S3 RF guns. Even if you presume that he kills 3x the stuff due to AP3, he doesn't have 3x the resilience via T, W, and Ld. He certainly doesn't fight any better in HtH with WS3 A1 base.
____

From a 4-pt Guardsman setting the baseline mark:
+3 for BS4 AP3 (offset for the R18")
+1 for Sv4+ Ld8
+2 for Deep Strike + Valk option
= 10 pts

10 points is a fair price.

But there is a part of me that is afraid that they'll be 11 or 12...

10pts, and a Tau Fire Warror is worth 7/8 max.

An Inquisitorial Stormtrooper is already 10 points. So I can see it becoming equivalent to that with the DH version going up a little more.

Hell, I'd pay 15 each for an Inquisitorial Stormtrooper and it would STILL be 10 points cheaper than the cheapest Grey Knight...

And an Inquisitorial Stormtrooper is already over priced by 2 points. No more than 8 points. I know they won't - they'll be 10-15 each because GW doesn't understand their own game and doesn't realise how many cover saves 5th Ed gives out therefore they'll see it as a "great anti-Marine weapon and therefore worth lotsa points - but it's nice to dream that they'll price them correctly.

10 points if they come with Infiltrate/Deep Strike.

BYE

Mattlov wrote:An Inquisitorial Stormtrooper is already 10 points. So I can see it becoming equivalent to that with the DH version going up a little more.

Hell, I'd pay 15 each for an Inquisitorial Stormtrooper and it would STILL be 10 points cheaper than the cheapest Grey Knight...

Why would the DH version go up more? The DH version is identical to the IG version, iirc.

Plus, keep in mind, that the DH version will not get Ap3 hellguns until the codex is revisited, or GW faqs it (which they have not done with shotguns, for example).

So, most likely, IG storms will be cheaper, with better kit, than DH and WH equivalents. Sad for my DH stormtrooper only army

GMMStudios wrote:

willydstyle wrote:I think they'll be worth about 12 points... I think they'll cost about 8 or 9.

New codices make units more powerful and cheaper. It's the trend of things.

This is 40k not fantasy

Orks? Space Marines? Both became significantly better while realizing points-cost drops nearly across the board.

well 12 jump out of a valk to smoke a space marine squad.
24 shots
12 hits
4 wounds/dead

then the stormtroopers die.
so 5 points a piece

Cruentus wrote:Why would the DH version go up more? The DH version is identical to the IG version, iirc.

Except for a lack of access to Deep Strike or Infiltrate. And besides, when the new Codex hits it's not like Inquisitorial players will be able to use the new rules for Stormies any more than Dark Angel players can use the new rules for Cyclones, Land Raiders and Storm Shields.

BYE

I mean really, it's not like it's GW's job to update their own rules.

I have a strange feeling that Stormies are going to loose their ability to deepstrike/infiltrate...

Instead they'll be able to take Valks :\ Call me crazy, but I can totally see that happening.

I guess I'm not really too concerned. I am a bit happy to see AP3 as I thought Hellguns never seemed all that much better than Lasguns. If all goes well, I'll be able to field an entire Air Assault style army with Vets dropping from Valkeries and Valkeries. It will be the skimmer version of Armored Company. Win/Lose/Draw? Don't know.... Cool factor....well, mine goes to 11.