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Right, finally got a game of this in today. I was using Rohan, opponent using Isengard Uruk Hai.

Overall, I am very impressed! The downside here, is that we were using the setup in the shop, and it turns out the Uruks outnumbered me roughly 2 to 1 points wise, so I did end up getting my head kicked in!

But the game actually plays very smoothly. The best comparrison I can think of, is Fast Warhammer, in terms of 'tactical satisfaction'. Not 100% accruate, and possibly slightly misleading, so I shall do my best to clarify that statement. Now, like Warhammer, you of course use the movement trays and move about in formations (a formation consists of 1-9 units). However, and this might perk up interest from some, there is none of the wheeling, reforming etc. The main restriction to the Formations movement is that no unit may move more than it's own movement value. Ergo, if you wish to move and reform, you can, it just means to formation won't move terribly far that turn, depending on the reform etc.

And the turn sequence. As a Fantasy player, that is going to take some getting used to! The sequence is thus - 1. Roll for Priority, 2. Movement (Priority first, THEN other player) 3. Shooting (Priority First again) 4. Charges.

Thats right folks! Charges are done in addition to your movement. This totally threw me, and I can see myself getting tangled up in knots over it. But thats due to what I'm used too, rather than an inherent flaw of the system. As I alluded to, each player has their crack at the phase before moving on to the next one. Again, rather confusing for a Fantasy player to adapt to, as I found myself uttering 'just stay bloody still' more than once!

As with the Skirmish, you can use Heroes etc to perform Heroic Moves etc. There are also Epic things you do, but I'll come on to them later.

Shooting honestly couldn't be simpler. Like combat, there is no seperate roll to hit then wound etc. Just a single roll. To work it out, count the Units in range and LoS (diagonally corner to corner of the unit base, which speeds things up somewhat). You get shots equal to there combined attack total (infantry, typically, have 8 attacks per formation) and can get benefits from other units in the same formation giving support fire (i.e. a block behind, without LoS still contributes +1 shot) and an accuracy bonus. This can be negative (6+ to hit) or really rather tasty (1+ to hit). So this worked out, pick them up, roll them, those which get the result needed kill. You *Can* push back formations with ranged fire, but as this didn't come up in the game, I can't say how that works, but I understand a unit can be pushed back more than once a turn....

Then, it comes to charges. LoS is of course needed (units measure corner to corner of their movement tray, monsters get 360) and Charge moves are random. From memory (not entirely accurate I'll warn you) Infantry chage D6+3", Monsters D6+4", and Cavalry D6=6". Now, if you roll a one on your charge, it automatically fails. If you roll a 6, it becomes an Unstoppable Charge, giving you extra attacks etc. And because both players get to do it before combat resolves, you can find a cunning charge becoming a sticky situation very quickly!

Charges moved, it's combat time. Again, lots of bonus attacks etc. 8 basic for Infantry, Cavalry 2, Monsters get whatever they have. Charge Bonuses are quite varied (Cavalry and Monsters charging get 6 additional attacks, Infantry 1). Then like shooting, roll the dice, compare S to D, and see which have done the job, removing the dead models. Oh, yeah! Each model has a Resilience Rating. Infatry are 1, Cav 2, Monsters and characters usually 2+. The successful attacks (and shooting as well) are added together to remove complete models, with excess ignored at the end of the combat.

So, thats the basics of playing a turn. The pace is good, which is a big attraction. My main complaint at this time is the book itself. Now, all the charts you need are up the back of the book, which is good, but finding the various abilities and stats of the troops can be a pain. Of course, once familiarised this should become less of a problem! Now to move onto the funky stuff....

MAGIC!

Much, much simpler than Warhammer. Typically, spells cannot be countered, except by a suitably trained Sorceror of your own (who are not cheap!). Each Spellcaster has a Level (Gandalf and Saruman are level 3, but some Legendary Formations have much higher!) which dictates how many spells they can sling around, and will know specific Lores, and all the spells. To cast the spells, you pick one. The first spell works automatically. You then roll on the spell to determine the effect (typicall 1 is a failure, and a 6 is going to hurt the enemy a lot more!) Provided you have a Level of 2 or more, if you can roll the last spells Focus rating or above on a D6, you cast the next spell (though we weren't sure whether you pick, THEN roll, or roll, THEN pick. But this is us not being familiar rather than unclear rules). Rinse and repeat up to your Level. Some combinations are pretty nasty, and certain Spell Casters have additional, unique spells.

MIGHT!

Might is expended in the usual way, to boost up dice, but also to perform Epic actions. Epic actions are listed on each character. Gimli, for example, has Epic Rampage (as do others) which means as long as I keep on killing, I keep on rolling. Aragorn can use Epic Strike to raise his Fight value to 10, giving me a massive advantage in combat, especially challenges. Oh aye, challenges. These. Kick. Ass. You issue a challenge (expending a point of might) at the beginning of a combat, and pick on an enemy character. Both roll a D6, add their Fight value, with the challenger adding 1. Poor old Wiggins (my opponent) challenged Aragorn, to which I responded with an Epic Strike. He rolled a 1, I rolled a 6. The difference equates into rolls on the 'Heroic Duel' chart. Now, this from memory...1. No effect. 2-3 - D3 hits on the losers Formation, 4-5 one hit on the loser, 6 D3 hits on the Formation, D3 hits on the loser. Suffice to say I got jammy enough that from a single Heroic Duel, Aragorn cleaved apart 3 units of Warg Riders in the formation, AND Sharku.... Various other Epic actions have different effects, and I don't have the time, space or knowledge to list them all here I'm afraid. Gandalf and Saruman both have something like Epic Concentration, which allows them to re-roll failed Focus checks, meaning they are horrendously good with Magic Spells!

DISORDER!

At the end of a combat, the loser (count up and compare kill totals, including the total needed to have killed Cavalry etc, rather than on a model basis) rolls on the resolution chart. On a 6, all is well and the sides keep on fighting. 2-5 the loser becomes disordered (NOT good!) and a 1 basically means your stuffed.

So, that is the basics of what it's all about. Despite being out pointed horrifically, I thoroughly enjoyed the game, and I honestly look forward to mastering it the way I did Fantasy.

And the last bit... Someone was asking if Good can play Good etc. YES YOU CAN! When selecting your force, you start off choosing a Faction. These are things like Gondor, Rohan, Isengard etc. The next step, decide whether you are good, or evil. Any force can be any side, which I quite like. After that, you can choose an allied Faction, which you can spend up to 25% of your points on. Now, these MUST come from the same side as you chose. In this way, odd combos like Dwarfs and Goblins could occur, and I fully expect limitations on this to come from Tournaments :p

The Forgotten Lands however, can ONLY be Allies. This includes Ents, Hobbits, and several Legendary Formations.

SO yeah, a fast, fun game!

Thanks for this.

You're welcome.

Any questions from anyone? Will do my best to answer!

What's a typical army size (1,000 pts? 1750? 500?) And hoe much cash would a decent Elf army of that many points set me back?

Honestly do not know.

I reckon, providing you don't shy away from the Legendary Formations, 3-4k is quite playable in the space of an evening but I can see 2k being around decent Tournament sized.

Elves price? Again, depends entirely on what it's comprised of. Now, assuming the forthcoming plastic Pointy Ears will be boxed in 24's, not as much as one might think!

I completely agree with your sentiments on the game MDG I played the same game as you using the same army shockingly I won (considering I failed a charge with a re roll) but the game in itself plays very well and was not what I expected from it all.

Coming from a 40k/Fantasy background the turn system did take some getting used too, but I played the store manager (whom I have known for too many years) and he took extra care trying to explain it to me to make sure I had a decent grasp on the rules (i've never played the LOTR SBG before mainly because I am not a massive fan of the books or Tolkien's mythology at all) and by turn 2 or 3 I was getting into "the groove" of how to play the game and really liked what I experienced, the main thing that I liked was that characters and heroes whilst having their uses do not wreck the game but merely augment your army and help tip certain fights your way, not win the battle purely by their own merit (like Captain Shrike or Festus has done for me on many an occasion).

Still it has convinced me to build an army for it so I am going to start in familiar territory and start building a Wood Elf army and see where the game takes me, thanks for posting your thoughts on the game too, its interesting to see how many people actually like this version of the game compared to the SBG.

Indeed. And it's main strength, as I said to my local Manager (and fingers crossed, soon to be boss)?

It's most definitely NOT Fantasy. Plays totally differently from both 40k and Fantasy. Very much worth playing a game of, even if your not a fan of the game overall. For Historicals, it offers an extremely fluid ruleset. You just need to work out the stats etc of the relevant armies, or at least unit comparissons.

Oh, yeah. Killing stuff like Trolls and Ents. They are exceptionally hard to kill.

They have a special table you oll on, rather than just beat it's Resilience. A 6 slays outright, 1 does nothing, 2-3 one point, 4-5 two points.

As ever, you need to knock off all points of Resilience in a single phase, otherwise it's totally ignored.

We knacked one in short order using Legolas' Epic Shot which automatically inflicts D6 hits on the enemy unit.

[OT comment removed by mdoerator.]

Awesome. Thanks for the review MDG. Looking forward to it's release. Already painting up the LotR figs I have had stashed a way for years now. Hoping to generate interest in my new hometown (Milwaukee, WI) and the possibility for a tournament in the fall.

The more I read, the more interested I become. The quick start rules weren't too clear on how shooting worked exactly, it sounds very powerful. Interesting. Better than fantasy.

malfred wrote:Is that the one where the chick Orlando runs up to a bad guy, jumps in the air and spins to
give the guy a booty smack across the face? It'd be heaven...

Stop it, you're scaring me! (Assumes fetal position in corner with hands protecting face...)

The way it plays, I can see it being a very popular tournament game, possibly taking over from Fantasy.

Is also fairly tricky to be overly beardy in it. For example, hard as Aragorn is, he costs 190 points. A single unit of Urukhai with Pikes? 35 points. Men of Rohan? 20 points.

The characters, as mentioned above by 99MDeery, will certainly help you win combats, but they cost so many points, going heavy on the will lead to loss of game, as the enemy horrendously outnumbers you, gangs up on your units, and generally spoils your fun!

warpcrafter wrote:

malfred wrote:Is that the one where the chick Orlando runs up to a bad guy, jumps in the air and spins to
give the guy a booty smack across the face? It'd be heaven...

Stop it, you're scaring me! (Assumes fetal position in corner with hands protecting face...)

After a comment like that, why would you protect your face?

The more you guys talk about this the more I keep thinking I need to look into it.

How many models does a 1000 pt or 2000 pt army seem to take?

And is the model quality good?

Models are the same as the SBG version.

Not exactly the greatest sculpts, but good enough for the massed combat you can expect.

Model count is going to vary wildly depending on what you take. For example, I could take The Nine as a single Legenday Formation for, I think, 300 points. Or, 30 units of Sharkey's Ruffians for the same... (me, I'd take the Ruffians. LOADSA BOWFIRE!)

I think the Strategy Battle Game has awesome sculpts except the odd Morely crime against wargaming.

The gankiest ones seem to be the ones the GW sculptors had free reign on- they couldn't help but add skullz. (Check out the uruk hai and goblin shamans if you don't believe me. It's irritating, but also kinda funny.)

malfred wrote:

warpcrafter wrote:

malfred wrote:Is that the one where the chick Orlando runs up to a bad guy, jumps in the air and spins to
give the guy a booty smack across the face? It'd be heaven...

Stop it, you're scaring me! (Assumes fetal position in corner with hands protecting face...)

After a comment like that, why would you protect your face?

You seem to be mixed up somehow, but it's not up to me to straighten you out, so I'm returning to the topic at hand.

Ahem!... I've read lots of battle reports from various people on different forums and it seems to be that War of the Ring is a game where the bigger you go, the more tactical challenges there are. The cheapness of the troops boxes and the ferocious power of charging cavalry are also strong selling points.

Indeed! Pulled of a Cavalry charge today, and munched the formation. Cavalry then got charge, and got quite heavily brayed off the infantry.....

IF this picks up in a big enough way where I am, I can forsee this taking over from Fantasy for me, *if* when the novelty wears off I'm still as keen on it.

and how many models would be in a unit? Or is a model a unit?

8 Infantry, or 2 Cavalry, or 1 Monster.

Each unit type has a maximum formation size, the largest I've spotted thus far being 9.

Some Legendary Formations break this, such as The Three Hunter (Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas) The Nine etc. How to base them is apparently covered in the book, but I've not yet read that bit.

It's good to hear that LOTR is getting a major improvement.

I wonder what the typical starter army size and cost will be.

If the game plays well with $100 worth of minis, then that'll be cool, and I might go for it. If it needs $300 worth of minis, no thanks, I already have Fantasy.

Hmm... might be swayed.

The bonus attacks for cavalry charges make a lot of sense. Cavalry was lethal because infantry got trampled on by the horses (as seen in Return of the King). The rider's contribution was fairly minimal unless he had a lance. This is something I'd like to see represented better in Warhammer. At the moment, the horses/mounts "attack" the opposing models, whereas really it should be impact hits like a chariot.

Will be interested to see what the basing suggestions are for The Nine and The Three Hunters (bet GW kicked themselves when they realised what they'd done there).

I'm really glad you enjoyed it MDG. I must admit that the bit that threw you a little as a Fantasy player (the mixing of turns so its not all "IGOUGO", but alternating phases), is one of the things that attracts me, personally. I'm pleased to hear that even though it confused you, you saw the point of it and thought it was a good mechanic.

On of the things I dislike about games like Fantasy (and 40k and Hordesmachine and many others as well) is how having taken my turn I have to sit back and watch my opponent do his business, and maybe just take the odd saving throw. To me, that is just boring and a waste of my time and I find myself wanting to wander off and make a coffee or something. Mixing up the turn sequence like that (as GW have done for some time in SGs like Epic: Armageddon and the like) is a great way of sustaining my interest throughout the turn, and for me makes the game more engaging.

Secondly the absence of rulesy-ness and the general feeling of the paired-downness of the game also really appeals. Now I now many love the complication and appearance of detail that loads of rules about wheeling, and turning and so forth can add to the game. For me though, I like the mechanics to be as simple as they can, provided they remain intuitive. The way restrictions on making complicated manoeuvres is handled without the need for adding extra rules to be remembered (or forgotten) for me makes for a more rewarding playing experience. Some may see it as "dumbing down", in the sense that less brain-power is required to remember the rules. I choose to see it as "more intelligent rules design" because I want to retain as much of my brain power as possible to solve the riddle of the unfolding battle situation on the tabletop, and use as little as possible trying to recall (or worse still, stop the game and look up in a massive rules book with only a rudimentary index!) some obscure rule about "facing" or whatever.

For me the acme of good games design is trying to achieve simulation of real-time actions using as few and as simple mechanics as possible.

If you're the sort of person that loves cross referencing seventeen different tables to find out whether your main unit has tripped over its shoelaces, then you will disagree with me. But for me, who would rather invest time in producing the models and playing the game over reading the rulebook, games like this one are a godsend!

Now, here's hoping the D6G do a good review of the game sometime soon!

Cheers for review MDG. I must say your experience and indeed the experience of most people here seems to mirror my own. In all honesty I haven't been this excited by a GW games in ages. I'm certainly more inspired by this that I have been by in WFB in ages.

I think the key is the new turn sequence (see my thread about GW using something similar in 40K and WFB). That and the fact that there is real balance between the factions and that the focus is actually on the players generalship and far less on the ability to pick optimum lists.

My real hope is that those players who have poured scorn on LotR in the past, by which I meant not just not playing it but actually vocally wishing the game Ill, may now be convinced to eat humble pie and give it a go.

In fact Ive really yet to hear a bad thing about the game from anyone who has given it a go.

Lets just hope the success of this game prompts GW to continue with LotR/WotR as a core game beyond 2011. It would be a real shame to let what is looking like one of their best ever rule sets go to waste.

It would be kinda like GW to do that though.

JohnHwangDD wrote:I wonder what the typical starter army size and cost will be.

If the game plays well with $100 worth of minis, then that'll be cool, and I might go for it. If it needs $300 worth of minis, no thanks, I already have Fantasy.

Plastic LotR figs have almost no second hand value. You could probably get a sizable force for $100 if you shopped smart.
I keep looking at some of the historical-esque looking bad guys and wondering if I could find another use for them. Perhaps a ‘counts as’ Warhammer ancients army or something.

Oh I think they will continue it. Remember, Newline has been bought up by another Company. Plus, the licenses for the LotR films are now somewhat less prestigious, seeing as the films are over and done with.

And if GW do drop it? Well, they have a seperate license from Tolkein Estates, so they shouldn't need the Newline one, provided they resculpt all the stuff that appeared in the film (Nazgul are an example of edging this way with the named ones)

Osbad and LucisAR. With regard to the turn sequence, I don't mind the Fantasy or 40k approach at all, and I don't really have a preference. My main concern about WotR is how much of my enthusiasm is genuinely deserved, and how much is 'Ooo! Shiny!' syndrome. Only time will make that clear I guess.

JohnHwangDD....$100 could get you a small, though fieldable army, and $300 sounds excessive. Split the difference to the $200 intermediate, and I reckon (not fact folks, please note!) you'll wind up with a force large enough for a satisfying game. Really does depend on how many characters you take. See my earlier posts on what a difference they can make, depending what you take.

Army I used had...3 units of Men of Rohan, 6 units Riders of Rogan, 3 units of Roham Royalguard, Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas, Gandalf and Theoden. I made the points for this little lot around 1,200 or so. Bearing in mind we were horrifically outnumbered and still learning, the game took about one and a half hours. Once up to speed, I reckon that would take an hour. The majority of time is spent pondering where you are going to move to, and second guessing the opponent, which I find a real boon, as this it is the clever out manouvering of your opponent that appeals most about Fantasy.

I'm not getting my hopes up. I am delighted at the SBG and really excited about the new game, but I'll wait and see before I start predicting whether either will be for sale in a couple of years.