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Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Basically I was wondering what people thought of this character. I have been rather tempted to "counts as " this character for my newly converted Blood Ravens.

I have a Bike Squad that has been collecting dust and the thought of making them scouring and giving them outflank is rather tempting.

"Have I not made my intentions clear? I have deprived your ship of power, and when I swing around, I intend to deprive you of your life."

"Have you heard the old Klingon proverb that revenge is a dish best served cold? It is very cold... in space!"

IMO, outflank - while an awesome ability, is subject to the fickle whims of the dice gods - due to risks involved with reserve rolls and board edges. Personally, I'd rather not buy a power that has the potential to screw you as bad as it screws your opponent.

Mahu wrote:Sorry, I couldn't resist...Basically I was wondering what people thought of this character...

Ahh,

Well, I actually built a conversion for Korsarro with Moondrakken. What do I think?

Overall, he is pretty good.

Upsides (in order):
Great conversion potential!
Makes Space Maine Bike squads into troops. Bikes are great troops for scoring mobility and massive special weapon firepower.
T5 is great.
Furious charge is cool.
Bike with fleet is very fast.
Gifting hit and run to a squad is occasionally great, but seldom useful.
Instant death on a 6 power sword is an interesting novelty.
4+ Invulnerable

Drawbacks:
Outlflank for units is a tempting curious novelty that seldom works out very well. Reserves are to random when combined with unknown location as well.
Chapter Tactics for the voluntary drawback are actually better.
Doesn't last at all against hidden power fist/gloves/claw/MCs in other armies and it is a major drawback, he dies like Kantor.
Could have Lysander for the points.
Painting white is a real challenge.
No model exists, even for a standing one.

I like mine I play it, it's not the best but it has some great possibilities. I say, build it and proxy it! Here is an image of the one I made, I invented the moondrakken bike with a tracked rear and Imperial winged forks. Hope you like it.




Let me know if you'd like the details of how this was done.

I love it, Augustus. I would've tried to position the fork wings in the opposite direction, but it still turned out nice.

As far as Khan goes, I use him as a secondary HQ for a really nasty CC command squad and bike troops. I've only played 1 game with them, made a few mistakes with the troops, but Khan and his command squad won the game for me.

To ad to Kaloran SLC point; you can also get feel no pain on Khan if you take a bike mounted command squad with him, which is very powerful but awfully top heavy. In my experiments with this expensive unit, khan gets picked on by powergloves and killed in CC, before the rest of the unit does. It sure looks cool though!

@Kaloran, thanks a lot! I just didn't think the wing would look right upside down.

I can see a way to position them so the wings are splayed backward, but I can't explain it in words. No worries, though. I'm still envious of that model. Mine is nowhere near as awesome, but I didn't really want to spend a whole lot of time on a "counts as" character.

It's true that Khan can "easily" be taken out by powerfists and the like, but with Furious Charge and a couple of LCs, there shouldn't be terribly too much to worry about, especially if you can charge in without getting that powerfist into Base-to-Base with him. Instead, position your LC/SS equipped command marine to take that hit if/when it comes.

Yup, and you can get stormshields in the command squad too for the 3+ I, with FNP too, it is nasty hard!

"I've done far worse than kill you. I've hurt you. And I wish to go on hurting you. I shall leave you as you left me, as you left her: marooned for all eternity in the center of a dead planet...buried alive. Buried alive."

"KHAAAAAAAAAAANN!!! (Khaaaaaann!!)"

- Khan and Kirk, the latter "trapped" in the asteroid


Yeah, I was looking at the Command Squad, but would probably stick with the less powerful, more scoring standard bike squad.

I was even thinking of combining him with Tigerus, but that may be a bit excessive in points to two characters.

My idea, maybe not the most competitive one, is to use him as part of a fast contingent to an existing SM build.

I was thinking of adding this to an Army list.

Kahn
Chaplian on a Bike with a Powerfist
5-man Bike Squad w/ 2 Meltaguns and attached Attack Bike with MM
Attack Bike w/ MM
2 MM and Heavy Flamer Land Speaders

Kahn and Chaplain join the bike squad and outflank together. The other three outflanks as well. I traditionally take two tactical squads in Rhinos so I can outflank with one of them as well.

That sounds fun and risky to play, I bet you would like it. I'd give that a try!

I don't think I'd take it to a tourney,... oh wait, I almost did (just no chaplain)... I did average. Good luck!

I have had Khan used against me in a game, on foot in a landraider with terminators and Cassius if I recall. The other units he had were 3 tac squads with melta/mm in rhinos (combat squadded) and two whirlwinds. It was pretty nasty, as even though he didn't know which side he was coming in from, he had enough reserves that he got the side he wanted eventually, and could race 12" in anyway.
I would think that an accompanying squad with power weapons that swing at initiative is almost necessary though, just to be able to remove enough threats in the form of hidden fists, just in case you can't get Khan on the opposite side of the unit from them.

Mahu wrote:"I've done far worse than kill you. I've hurt you. And I wish to go on hurting you. I shall leave you as you left me, as you left her: marooned for all eternity in the center of a dead planet...buried alive. Buried alive."

"KHAAAAAAAAAAANN!!! (Khaaaaaann!!)"

- Khan and Kirk, the latter "trapped" in the asteroid


Yeah, I was looking at the Command Squad, but would probably stick with the less powerful, more scoring standard bike squad.

I was even thinking of combining him with Tigerus, but that may be a bit excessive in points to two characters.

My idea, maybe not the most competitive one, is to use him as part of a fast contingent to an existing SM build.

I was thinking of adding this to an Army list.

Kahn
Chaplian on a Bike with a Powerfist
5-man Bike Squad w/ 2 Meltaguns and attached Attack Bike with MM
Attack Bike w/ MM
2 MM and Heavy Flamer Land Speaders

Kahn and Chaplain join the bike squad and outflank together. The other three outflanks as well. I traditionally take two tactical squads in Rhinos so I can outflank with one of them as well.

Hrm. No command squad, and minimal bike troops, seems like it would almost be a waste of Khan's presence. To each his own, however. If you do run it, let us know how it goes!

I'm currently running a Khan list that looks like this...)

Khan

Chaplain in Terminator Armour

5 Assault Terminators in a Redemer (dedicated transport)
3 X Full Bike Squad, Vet Sgt w Power Fist, 2 Flamers, Multi-Melta Att Bike
2 Predator Destructots Autcannon/Heavy Bolters

It's light on AT, but it does fairly well. Not a tier 1 list by any stretch, but it's decent, and sometimes fantastic.

The colors on his trophy rack are very pastel... they look like cotton candy.

I look at Kahn's roll as a way to bring about the option of outflank. I think outflank is too random to base an army on consistently using the ability. However, popoing him in there gives you another troops choice and if you build the list correctly, you can outflank with some or all of your army depending on the mission and the opponent.

I look at him as a way to make a list very flexible.

He ain't to bad either, on his own he can fleet on his bike and charge in with 5 str 5 attacks at a high weapon skill.

Combine him with even a regular Bike Squad and you have a lot of high initiative high strentgh attacks that can hit a run.

As cool at the Command Squad is, I would prefer the standard bike squad for it's scoring status.

Actually, now that I think about it, the option to outflank any or all units in your army is brutally versitile. Going up against daemons? Outflank everything and stay at range for the entire game. Playing against melee horde? Outflank half your army, shooting blasts and come in behind them. Catch them from front and back and force them to divide their force.

On another note, I would always take a Landraider and Terminators. Outlfanking Landraider is just juicy.

DarkHound wrote:Actually, now that I think about it, the option to outflank any or all units in your army is brutally versitile now that I think about it. Going up against daemons? Outflank everything and stay at range for the entire game. Playing against melee horde? Outflank half your army, shooting blasts and come in behind them. Catch them from front and back and force them to divide their force.

On another note, I would always take a Landraider and Terminators. Outlfanking Landraider is just juicy.

Except when they come in at turn 4...

Ah, but then the threat of a Landraider coming in an assaulting you will keep them squished up in the middle. Even if it comes in turn 4, it moves 12" and the termies assault another 9 (abusing large base disembarking). They'll get stuck in. I'd also take a Whirlwind to take advantage of this effect. They have to bunch up and get hit by ordinance or they don't and get hit by Terminators.

Good point. I always enjoy the concept of making an opponent choose between a rock and a hard place.

I base every list I build around that principle.

Combo's I can think of off the top of my head:
Outflanking Landraider and Whirlwind
Drop pod Ironclad, outflanking Khan (and friends) and 2 Thunderfires (they can't spread out for fear of Khan, but are stuck with an Ironclad landing in the middle of them)
Outflanking Melt/Flamer Landspeeders and Bike squads (Speeders clear objectives, Bikes grab them)

My times run out, I'll post more later. Sorry.

Whirlwinds can Outflank?

No they can't, they don't have combat tactics.

You can put them in Reserve however, as the need to outflank with them would be negligible.

I agree with the assesment on Kahn. I look at him as a slightly more expensive captain on a bike that adds a wonderful deployment option that can be tailored to your opponent.

i think its a cool chracter
outflanking with bikes and transports will mess with your enemy