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As the title implies my question is whether or not the Dakka community feels that the Leman Russ Battle Tank (Battle Cannon variant) has become obsolete in comparison to some of the other variations (most notably, Executioner)

As an IG player myself, I have a soft spot for the classic LRBT, but I cant deny the usefulness of the Executioner specifically. I just wonder what will become of my LRBT models that I have already assembled and painted, that I cannot mod very effectively or at all.
Is there a place for these in small(ish) games anymore? or to be "competitive" must we all use the Executioner and abandon the classic?

Dont get me wrong I see the appeal of the Executioner and Demolisher, especially with the sponson upgrades giving even more blast plates to the force. But I just dont want to tear apart my beloved Battle Cannon(s) if I feel they can still be useful.

But I digress. What say you Dakka?

And my apologies if this topic was posted before, I did a search and didnt come up with any similar results.

The classic LRBT is, if anything, more competitive than the Executioner. And even if you wanted to convert your tanks, surely it would be a simple matter of replacing the turret?

New blast template rules favour them more now right? And aren't they still the cheapest ones out there when compared to the new variants? If those two things are true it seems like there's still a place for them if you don't have many points to spare for one of the new fancy-schmancy ones.

They're not obsolete, although they may be redundant. S8 Ordnance is still good, and thus the LRBT will stay good. There is serious competition for points now, and the all round goodness that was the LRBT might be outclassed.

Remember that gunlines are shrinking, and plasma guns actually went up in the new codex, making AP2 more valuable. The Executioner is great against heavy infantry and medium vehicles, while the demolisher is good against terminators and heavy vehicles, all areas that the gunline struggles a bit against.

LRBT is the generalist tank. It's among the cheapest, with the unspecialised Battle Cannon that eats MEQs and AV12 like no bodys buisness. You can give it tank or infantry hunting weapons and it's Battlecannon with compliment both, and the Battlecannon will still be useful against whatever you didn't equip it for.

There are better choices for more varied roles, but i still love them.
cheap on points, nice and basic and they get the job done.
give it a while to clam down from the whole "OMG! new tanks" thing, and people will start using them again.

Im using an LRBT and a Demolisher squadroned with plasma sponsons and it is really disgustingly effective.

It literally eats anything alive, but it is disgustingly expensive and works just as well with all kinds of targets.

I think the LRBT works wonderfully as a squadron mate for your specialist tank of choice. Especially with the Exterminator or Demolisher as that extra pie plate helps even the performance of the squadron out when it does not have its prefered targets (Terminators, MegaNobz, Nob Bikers, MC's ect.. to annihilate)

With the LR in the squadron along with the lascannon on the demolisher it allows the squad to still have a valid use even when the enemy is (justifyably) afraid to enter the engagement radius.

it is also a solid choice naked as a second or third HS choice.

Polonius wrote:They're not obsolete, although they may be redundant. S8 Ordnance is still good, and thus the LRBT will stay good. There is serious competition for points now, and the all round goodness that was the LRBT might be outclassed.

I guess you're right about there being lots of competition for the points. It used to be just a few options, now it looks like there's half a dozen.

I'd say all the Leman Russ variants have their place (except maybe the punisher, and I'll still play with that occasionally just to roll that many dice at some one). You trade a big range advantage for the other neat tricks the others have, and that is not something to be sneezed at, particularly if you want them coming in from reserves or outflanking (via creed).

Jack

Right now Im using a naked LRBT to guard an executioner and so far it has worked pretty well. Its cheap, reliable, tough and people fear it.

I would probably like to upgrade it to another executioner but I don't have the points in my 1500 point list.

Agamemnon2 wrote:The classic LRBT is, if anything, more competitive than the Executioner. And even if you wanted to convert your tanks, surely it would be a simple matter of replacing the turret?

The modding I can see myself doing, just not effectively. Especially the sponsons. The turret isnt glued in place, so that might not be a problem, its the sponsons and me stripping them to hell that I worry about. But thats not necessarily the point

Back on topic:
More competitive? perhaps as a generalized anti-vehicle platform the LRBT is better due to its +1 Strength of weaponry. And its lower points. But in terms of anti-heavy infantry the AP2 on the executioner is (as stated) more valuable.
So how is the LRBT more competitive? Please elaborate (perhaps I'm just not thinking quite clearly...)

Point for point, the basic Russ is still a solid performer. S8 AP3 Ordnance is great from a general-purpose standpoint.

The only thing that the basic Russ struggles against is Sv2+, and you can take Demolishers at modest points increase to deal with it.

Executioners are somewhat "better" as a specialist unit, but you pay through the nose for the extra ability.

A naked LRBT is a very solid choice coming in at a lean 150, has excellent range, takes out MEQ, insta kills T4 (unlike Exec), and is ok at popping transports.

Yes the LR Exec is amazing, but at 230 points it is ~50% more expensive.