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There is nothing definite about the direction of the Third Expansion other than it headed towards Imperial space, which, as is pointed out repeatedly, is a big place.

Nimbosa isn't specifically mentioned.

Yes, the purging of Nimbosa was a regrettable incident which Brightsword was apparently censured for. I believe this censure contributed to Farsight's decision to set his own path for his followers and turn his back on the concept of co-operation with other races.

Jefffar wrote:Nimbosa was a part of the so called Second Sphere Expansion and while the Imperium did reclaim that world, there are 6 other noted Sept Worlds the Tau claimed during the same expansion phase.

So the Tau expanded into at least 7 Imperial worlds and the Imperium took 1 of them back.

At that sort of ratio the Tau will probably be able to gobble up a large portion of the Ultima Segmentum. Especially when the Astronomicon dims enough that long range Warp Travel becomes almost impossible in the area.

First:

They didn't take 7 Imperial Worlds, it is only said that they settled 7 worlds. There is no mention of Imperial worlds beside Nimbosa.
Those 7 worlds are: T'olku, Vash'ya, Tash'var, Elsy'eir, Ke'lshan, N'dras and Au'taal. Those are all colonies not Sept worlds.

Second:



You see how small Tau empire is when compared toward Ultima Segmentum? It's like comparing one small Earth island with the whole Pacific ocean. Even now they need a week to get from one end to their empire to another, how the hell are they going to "gobble up a large portion of the Ultima Segmentum" when their FTL suck big time? ( and please don't start with Human psykers or Demiurg - Etherials banned all research toward that after Medusa V ).

Third:

Their Third phase of expansion is over. It started at Zeist, Kronus and Kaurava. And Tau had been beaten back big time by Imperials, making temporary halt to Tau expansion plans.
The only planet they were able to took was Taros, and that campaign was stupid as blondes.

And to add that Farsight rebeled against Etherial and put his world at Democles. If Tau want to invade the Imperium it has first to go trough there and big Farsight won't let them.

I don't think they told us how the third phase ended.

nomotog wrote:I don't think they told us how the third phase ended.

"The Third Phase Expansion was convened on 997.M41 on the word of Aun'va. Commander Shadowsun was placed in command, and has secured at least two new septs for the Tau Empire. During the Zeist Campaign of 999.M41, Space Marines forces counterattacked against the expanding Third Sphere, drawing the Third Sphere to a, perhaps temporary, halt. "

This sum it up, with Kronus and Kaurava also beloning to Third phase expansion. Zeist being the main Tau advance.
They also reclaimed all worlds that Tau took, except Taros.

Brother Coa wrote:

nomotog wrote:I don't think they told us how the third phase ended.

"The Third Phase Expansion was convened on 997.M41 on the word of Aun'va. Commander Shadowsun was placed in command, and has secured at least two new septs for the Tau Empire. During the Zeist Campaign of 999.M41, Space Marines forces counterattacked against the expanding Third Sphere, drawing the Third Sphere to a, perhaps temporary, halt. "

This sum it up, with Kronus and Kaurava also beloning to Third phase expansion. Zeist being the main Tau advance.
They also reclaimed all worlds that Tau took, except Taros.

The tau expand into areas besides the IoM too. We won't get a full brake down till the next tau codex.

First, the Tau Codex and the map you posted identifies those as Sept Worlds.

Second, I didn't say this would happen overnight. It may take thousands of years before this starts to occur, plenty of time for the Tau to improve their FTL technology or the Ethereals to reconsider their actions (unlike the High Lords of Terra the Ethereals don't have problems changing public policy as circumstances change). Most of the worlds I am speaking off will have already been cut off from the Imperium as the light of the Astronomicon fades and will be desperate for a new protector who can stand up to Orks, Tyranids and the like.

Third, the Third Phase was actually successful taking a number of human and Ork worlds according to the Codex. 2 of these new Sept Worlds (Ksi'm'yen and Fi'rios) push around the Northern Flank of the Farsight Enclaves ensuring direct access to the Imperium without having to deal with Farshight. But again looking at the map you posted we see a Third Sphere expansion path projected out through the Farsight Enclaves, so apparently Farsight isn't even a barrier when his territory must be crossed.

Jefffar wrote:First, the Tau Codex and the map you posted identifies those as Sept Worlds.

MINOR Sept worlds. Even your codex state that they are MINOR colonies.

Second, I didn't say this would happen overnight. It may take thousands of years before this starts to occur, plenty of time for the Tau to improve their FTL technology or the Ethereals to reconsider their actions (unlike the High Lords of Terra the Ethereals don't have problems changing public policy as circumstances change). Most of the worlds I am speaking off will have already been cut off from the Imperium as the light of the Astronomicon fades and will be desperate for a new protector who can stand up to Orks, Tyranids and the like.

You really think that Tau will last that long? And as I said: more advanced FTL then the Tau currently have does not exist, Humans had that kind of tech for centuries before they developed Warp Drives, and in terms of technology the Tau are like the Orks toward Necrons.. Only other way trough that is Warp or Webway, both out of Tau hands because they lack Psykers and protection against Daemons. And great number of Imperial worlds are already cut off from the Astronomicon and they are surviving and receiving help ( like Ultramar who is beyond the Astronomicon).

Third, the Third Phase was actually successful taking a number of human and Ork worlds according to the Codex. 2 of these new Sept Worlds (Ksi'm'yen and Fi'rios) push around the Northern Flank of the Farsight Enclaves ensuring direct access to the Imperium without having to deal with Farshight. But again looking at the map you posted we see a Third Sphere expansion path projected out through the Farsight Enclaves, so apparently Farsight isn't even a barrier when his territory must be crossed.

You took only 3 worlds, 2 of them you just settled, with your main army defeated with most of your troops destroyed. How is that success?

Fluff fights are always silly. GW's just going to rewrite the fluff in the next codex and before you know it Tau are close combat gods that go around bro-fisting Calgar and peeing on tomb-worlds for fun. Shadowsun'll probably be roaming the IoM assasinating primarchs while the space pope convinces hive minds of the greater good. /hyperbole

Seriously, GW painted themselves into a corner by creating a stagnate point in time that will never advance. The only tool they have left to them to make anything remotely dynamic, storywise, is to use the big retcon brush and splatter ink everywhere things don't fit.

Still, it's funny to see people get so worked up over their fictional universe that doesn't even make sense. GW can't even keep timelines straight much less story arcs.

Brother Coa wrote:And to add that Farsight rebeled against Etherial and put his world at Democles.

How do you rebel against dead ethereals?

He didn't ask or wait for a replacement, that's how. He just turned and left. And what happened to Space Crusader's posts, they turned red all of a sudden.

Third sphere planet numbers:

Swathe :how many in a swathe...

many : how many in a many...

handful : how many in a handful (depends on size of hands I guess and size of thingies in hands )

cluster : how many in a cluster...

All of these terms are pulled directly from the Tau codex pg: 15 and third sphere expansion description.

so based on those descripters how can anyone produce accurate numbers of worlds from that source.

And the Nimbosa campaign other than mentioning nimbosa precisely does not say any numbers aswell, unless the black templar codex is more precise, (and I will check that today)

Yeah fluff fights are muy stupidio but so is this thread...

Tadashi wrote:He didn't ask or wait for a replacement, that's how. He just turned and left. And what happened to Space Crusader's posts, they turned red all of a sudden.

What would happen if Farsight got near an etheral?

His posts probably were of poor taste and quality, and thus were edited.

Brother Coa, Ultramar is still within range of the Astronomicon (the line along the eastern border of the Imperium on the galactic map) for the time being unless you have an alternate source to cite that indicates they aren't.

Malroke wrote:1hadhq stop spitting your dummy out..

What?

Malroke wrote: all the people who are saying that they want to exterminate this race or that (usually imperium players).

See thats the problem. Its always the other guys fault. Don't you spot the flaw in this theory?

Malroke wrote:Stop getting confrontational and taking things out of context or not reading things properly.

This wasn't confrontational.

Context was kept, just not so easy to find so I wonder why I should be the one not reading things properly ...

Malroke wrote:Also if you have nothing constructive to say keep it to yourself.

Nice.
Maybe try it for yourself.

Malroke wrote:Being able to talk, deal and be diplomatic adds a nice new dimension to the game.

Everyone except nids talks, deals and negotiates. Nothing added there. The civil life is just unimportant in 40k fluff since its focus is on war.

Malroke wrote: If anyone responds to this in a nit picky argumentaitive way i will ignore you and assume you have nothing better to do then make arguments over the internet because you have nothing better to do

Cool. Can I have my name added to your ignore list, now please?

KplKeegan wrote:So I can get rumored and subjective fluff that's rumored to be in the Tau Codex? Wowzers, that sure sounds swell...

Not only that. You also get more fluff than chaos legions, eldar, etc in 40k codices and expansions. Tau are really not the forgotten faction in 40k. They are part of almost every fluff release, have a few bitz in every codex. Abby could file complaints, Tau surely shouldn't.

Jefffar wrote:Brother Coa, Ultramar is still within range of the Astronomicon (the line along the eastern border of the Imperium on the galactic map) for the time being unless you have an alternate source to cite that indicates they aren't.

It is not, range of astronomicon is 50.000 light years. Ultramar is on the other side of the galaxy, a little over 50.000 light years.
See 40k Star Map for this.

I did. There is a line on that map. To the west (left) of that line is within range of the Astronomicon. To the east (right) of that line is out of the range of the Astronomicon.

Ultramar is to the West of that line, if only slightly. Should the Astronomicon contract by say 5%, they will likely be outside it's light and helpless.

Coa and Tadashi

Just be glad the full might of the Tau hasn't been brought down on the IoM yet.

We already know the largest attempt at destroying the Tau Empire was larger than any conflict to date and that the IoM lost it, aka The Iron Hammer Campaign.

We know that it resulted in the report sent by Cadians, after Hive Fleet Gorgon ravaged the Tau. We also know that the full might of the Tau war machine must be far stronger than previously thought, if they could survive a Nid fleet then turn right around and wipe out the largest incursion into their empire to date. Larger than the Zeist Campaign, Damocles Gulf, Nimbosa, Taros, anything. Meaning it must of had over 13 Space Marine Chapters, 2 Legions of Titans, a far larger Naval presence and more than 15 IG regiments in order for it to be far larger than anything to date. Soak that in and understand that unless GW made the Tau get wiped out in their next Codex, the IHC was a loss for the IoM.

So keep using really bad analogies of oceans to explain why the Tau pantsing the face off the Eastern fringe are actually losing.

Tau > Imperial Apes

What is the Iron hammer campaign?

nomotog wrote:What is the Iron hammer campaign?

At the end of the Hive Fleet Gorgon entry in the Nid dex, it mentions how the Cadians deemed the Tau a minor threat then gave a report of the battle they had fought in to their higher command. The result would be the Imperium waging the largest conflict to date against the Tau. The story concludes it being a tale for another time.

Here is the entry:
"This viewpoint, and the wilfully misinterpreted conclusions that fed it, was the chief perticipating factor in the commencement of the Iron Hammer campaign, which soon escalated into the greatest confrontation yet seen between the Imperium of man and the Tau Empire. But thats another story....."

I'd bet we will see it mentioned in the Tau 5th Edition Codex.

The interesting fact being that the conflict is larger than any to date, and there have been some fairly large conflicts so far. The Zeist campaign being large enough that Calgar issued a call for all Space Marines in proximity report for the war. So unless they retcon Tau, chalk this up to another loss for the IoM.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Coa and Tadashi

Just be glad the full might of the Tau hasn't been brought down on the IoM yet.

We already know the largest attempt at destroying the Tau Empire was larger than any conflict to date and that the IoM lost it, aka The Iron Hammer Campaign.

We know that it resulted in the report sent by Cadians, after Hive Fleet Gorgon ravaged the Tau. We also know that the full might of the Tau war machine must be far stronger than previously thought, if they could survive a Nid fleet then turn right around and wipe out the largest incursion into their empire to date. Larger than the Zeist Campaign, Damocles Gulf, Nimbosa, Taros, anything. Meaning it must of had over 13 Space Marine Chapters, 2 Legions of Titans, a far larger Naval presence and more than 15 IG regiments in order for it to be far larger than anything to date. Soak that in and understand that unless GW made the Tau get wiped out in their next Codex, the IHC was a loss for the IoM.

So keep using really bad analogies of oceans to explain why the Tau pantsing the face off the Eastern fringe are actually losing.

Tau > Imperial Apes

Where is now Kroothawk to see were did i get the idea that Tau could bet the Imperium.
And they call me a troll

The tau will never win. Not because they're bad, but because the greatest power in the universe resides in the continued survival of the Imperium. Not the Emperor, but the status quo!

Not only that, but in the closed thread "Tau Empire vs. Imperium", I believe, one particular Trollpie didn't believe that there were fanboys as rabid as BeefCake Soup (this is not an insult, "rabid" is merely a descriptor referencing the level of love). Ha, this is a thread to mark for future ammunition.

Also, I believe that the Tau Empire will survive and prosper, but not that it could beat the Imperium of man in its current state.

Brother Coa wrote:Where is now Kroothawk to see were did i get the idea that Tau could bet the Imperium.
And they call me a troll

He is right behind you and only calls you a troll when you say ALL Tau players think the Tau Empire can beat the IoM any day. Or when you call all Tau players hateworthy. Or say that the Tau Empire is good for nothing and should be culled instantly for incompetence. Or if you deliberately make false quotes from the Codex. Or ...

Kroothawk wrote:
He is right in front of you and only calls you a troll when you say ALL Tau players think the Tau Empire can beat the IoM any day. Or when you call all Tau players hateworthy. Or say that the Tau Empire is good for nothing and should be culled instantly for incompetence. Or if you deliberately make false quotes from the Codex.

Oh and I forgotten, you are a Tau fanboy to who makes use of the situation and strike whenever appointed. Not once had I presented false claim from codex or twisted it to my will. For that is a heresy that is punishable by death. I simply claim in all my posts that Tau have no chance against Imperium's war machine ( I am talking about thousands of Imperial Guard Regiments and at least 20 - 50 Space Marine Chapters. A true Imperial Crusade Force ), while you and few others always trying twist that into Tau favor calling us fanboys.
I know you are trying to defend your faction but face it - you can't win that kind of war. And using Taros or Democles or Nimbosa is not proving anything but Tau managing to take advantage of small engagements.

And this comment of yours proves me right at the end - you are the biggest troll of them all, defending your claims by calling other people trolls and their use of codex twisted to their own agenda.

Ad hominem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Most of the arguments on this thread are invalid.

Maybe let the other guy go on believing what it is he want to?

CpatTom wrote:
Most of the arguments on this thread are invalid.

Except these: Tau will never take over the entire universe, it's to big. They will never be able to stop all the Orks and Tyranids, evne more advanced and ferocious races failed at that. Their banner will never "fly over all of the UNIVERSE", as for Imperium and Chaos destroying them we shall see when GW advance the timeline.

Now tell me: what is trolling in this comment and what is going against the established fluff?

I think the Tau as a civilization can expand greatly. Look at what they already accomplished. Combined with all the auxillary races the Tau recruit. Not to mention how fast the Tau advance technologically, they're a fraction as old as the IoM and twice as advanced.

I'm not saying the Tau would steamroll the entire galaxy, nor would i say they would dominate it. But the Tau Could definitly do some serious damage as well as take some.

I feel that GW put the Tau in a bad position. Not that it keeps me up at night or anything. However they are to small to do any rel damage to anyone. Now the Eldar are also small but they are always on the move and making temporary alliances to help themselves out. The Tau though.... they are just as stagnant as the entire 40k story.

Brother Coa wrote:
Except these: Tau will never take over the entire universe, it's to big. They will never be able to stop all the Orks and Tyranids, evne more advanced and ferocious races failed at that. Their banner will never "fly over all of the UNIVERSE", as for Imperium and Chaos destroying them we shall see when GW advance the timeline.

Now tell me: what is trolling in this comment and what is going against the established fluff?

Fallacy of Induction: C will fail because A and B did before it.
Its not trolling, its just based off faulty logic.

"when GW advance the timeline": Don't hold your breathe.

Ultimately, the Tau won't be able to hold off a large scale assault be any of the races that can actually launch an assault of the required size.

Imperium, Tyranids, Orks and 'Crons would win through attrition

Chaos MAY win through their inherent unpredictability

DE could feasibly win with Guerilla warfare DE style: (poof) SLICE(poof)