Tau Empire

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**Brother Coa**

CpatTom wrote:
Fallacy of Induction: C will fail because A and B did before it.
Its not trolling, its just based off faulty logic.

So your "righteous logic" is that Tau will one day control the entire universe?
I don't see it happening, but yet again, Tau fan is a Tau fan...

**CpatTom**

Brother Coa wrote:
CpatTom wrote:
Fallacy of Induction: C will fail because A and B did before it.
Its not trolling, its just based off faulty logic.

So your "righteous logic" is that Tau will one day control the entire universe?
I don't see it happening, but yet again, Tau fan is a Tau fan...

Scarecrow fallacy (or straw-man). My position never stated that the C (Tau, as has been assumed) would succeed because and A and B had failed. It simply said that pointing to A and B as reasons why C would fail is faulty logic. Assuming my position is that the Tau would one day win is where you create the Scarecrow.

**KingDeath**

The Crusader wrote:Ultimately, the Tau won't be able to hold off a large scale assault be any of the races that can actually launch an assault of the required size.

Imperium, Tyranids, Orks and 'Crons would win through attrition

Chaos MAY win through their inherent unpredictability

DE could feasibly win with Guerilla warfare DE style: (poof) SLICE(poof)

Well, the Tau are in fact able to deal with fairly large scale assaults. The Achilus Crusade has at least 30 billion groundpersonal with one of it's three mainfronts devoted to a single, large ( and well armed )
Tausept ( keep in mind that a sept doesn't necessarily mean just one planet, it includes the septworld itself + the various other/allied planets under the septworld's control ). This front is currently stagnant.
Now compare that with the Sabbat Worlds crusade, which consisted of merely a billion people in all military branches.

While there is no doubt that the Imperium of Man theoreticaly has both the manpower and the technology to destroy the Tau Empire it is also hard to imagine that the sectors of the Eastern Fringe
are currently able and willing to organise and supply a sufficiently large crusade ( like the Achilus Crusade, perhaps even somewhat larger if we assume that the Tau Empire expanded in size and modernised it's navy in the ca 150 years between the Achilus crusade and our new, theoretical crusade ) to combat a relatively minor ( the Tau conquered/ anexed at most a few dozen Imperial worlds within their entire existence while Leviathan has the potential to devoure thousands of worlds; the Skarus Orks threaten an entire sector and possibly even more and the Despoiler, if victorious, could engulf the entire Segmentum in anarchy ) threat.

**Brother Coa**

CpatTom wrote:
Scarecrow fallacy (or straw-man). My position never stated that the C (Tau, as has been assumed) would succeed because and A and B had failed. It simply said that pointing to A and B as reasons why C would fail is faulty logic. Assuming my position is that the Tau would one day win is where you create the Scarecrow.

If this was "Battlestar Glactica" I would agree

But seeing that the enemy is a thing that Eldar and Humans at their highest moment couldn't wipe out leave very little hope for Tau.
So A + B should = C as well

**Jefffar**

Should equal is different than Will equal.

Should implies that there is a possibility.

Will implies there is not.

So is it should or will?

**xXSir MontyXx**

By the emperor I got it! Algebra! That's been the answer the whole time! This is how the story continues!

**BrainDeleted**

There are a lot of misconceptions in this tread. Geez. Leave it alone for a weekend and it explodes.

The Tau players feel victimized and the IoM players get way too defensive and genocidal...Perfect.

**xXSir MontyXx**

And what of is neutral players? I play Tyranid personnaly :p

**Brother Coa**

BrainDeleted wrote:
The Tau players feel victimized and the IoM players get way too defensive and genocidal...Perfect.

Really?

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
“Just be glad the full might of the Tau hasn't been brought down on the IoM yet. “

“Tau > Imperial Apes”

“However, I doubt there is any other force out there rocking Railguns and Pulse Rifles pantsing Regiments and Crusades wholesale....”

"Also, Nimbosa wasn't a defeat. They massacred every imperial down to the last, then massacred every imperial sent down to the last."
"Chaos will never defeat the Tau Empire. Tau don't fall to the Gods of the Warp. Once the Empire brings to bear it's full military might against the pathetic stone throwing apes of the Imperium, they will bring a million Railguns to bear on anything that dares leave the warp. All 4 Gods sitting in a pig pen of warp filth as the smallest, most powerful, technologically advanced Empire ever to exist wipes out the threat of corruption by merely being incorruptible. "

"Daemons may be scary to the slow minded descendants of apes, that sleep a 1/3 of their life away while having nightmares about the horrors of the warp and take hours to understand a fear that takes Tau seconds to solve. The Warp may be a Daemons playground, but in realspace they are target practice for hammerheads. Plasma is a joke when a shield drone can shrug it off and compared to the ever evolving might of Railgun technology, we may aswell talk about how scary bayonets are. The Imperium of Man may fear Daemons... But so long as the Tau Empire stands, Daemons have not won."

"The Tau Empire doesn't worry about worthless warp dogs. The seat of power in the Empire will never be contested."

"The war between them and Chaos will come someday. When that day comes, the Tau will show the Imperium how you deal with a power hungry space chimp on warp roids... A rail shot to it's miserable face for the greater good."

"Barring Necrons full technological capacity, the Tau simply dominate the battlefield with superior Technology."

"As for the Shield Drones, they can take even the most punishing hit a Daemon can throw."

"Because if they ever achieve that fast of travel, their "tiny" Empire is going to blitz through an entire galaxy ripe for the taking. The sheer amount of planets that would simply surrender to better lifestyles would set the galaxy up for new rulers."

"Farsight isn't "dealing" with an Ork incursion, he is exterminating his way beyond sanctioned borders. That 2:1 odds are somehow supposed to kill a race that can fight against 20:1 odds? Farsight faced a planetary WAAAAGH for months before he evacutated the last of his FWs. Only to return and crush the forces that sieged him. "

"Daemons have an invuln. Tau have armor and invulns. Break the invuln on a daemon it dies or is wounded. Break the invuln on a Tau and it's flying frisbee dies."

"The Tau are the one enemy in the galaxy capable of crudding on Titans with superior Manta firepower, melting terminators with battlesuits and destroying guard with pulse rifle armed FWs."

"Sadly, the Imperium is comprised of slow thinking chimps with lasguns in comparison to them. Outwitted at every turn and put to shame in doctrines of warfare."

"Their most standard Tau infantry rifle, is capable of popping Rhinos."

"Had it been the full weight of the Tau Empire it would of been over in days for the Imperials. "

"The guard is garbage in every capacity to the Tau. "

"A Fire Warrior blows up razorbacks on a battlefield while a guardsman has to prey his lasgun doesn't just tickle an ork boy."

"Just don't be suprised when that little Empire everyone picks on wipes out a massive force sent to kill them and then goes from being 1% to 5 or 10% of your precious decaying Imperium."

". A team of broadsides can easily poke holes in a baneblade. A couple teams and you will have Baneblades popping wholesale. And what it takes to make a Baneblade vs a couple infantry in a battlesuit doesn't add up well for the Baneblade."

"The Tau outmatch the Imperium in this department hands down on the battlefield. The Tau can pop Land Raiders, Baneblades and Titans. These are all top tier weapons among the Imperium."

"Kroot, which have better weapons than Guard."

"Even then, one Tau Soldier in an XV88 Battlesuit can put the hurt on a Titan."

"I won't even get into how rediculous Battlesuit technology is. Suffice to say, they have weapons that turn Terminator Armor into piles of goo."

"I wish Tau could do something on a scale to fight the Crons."

"The Tau understand the concept of traveling in the warp"

"While the most basic grunt is carrying a weapon that outranges and out damages a Space Marines bolter."

"Hive Fleet Gorgon was adapting to Tau weaponry via hardened carapaces. If a Pulse Rifle was having little effect a bolter would have little to no effect."

"Lascannons are fine, for garbage."

"The mighty Warships of the BT would succumb under the weight of millions of remoras and the Tau fleets."

"Can the Imperium destroy the Tau Empire? No."

"When the day comes that the Tau need to create technology to make longer, faster jumps, rest assured, the Tau will create it, and it will most likely be yet again, superior to its Imperium technological counterpart. "

"The Tau Empire is capable of mobilizing every single adult into state service."

"a few battalions of Tau fought and defeated Regiments, Titan Legions, Astartes, etc."

"Tau Fire Cast outnumber Imperial Guard"

"Luxembourg, a small and tiny nation, commands the support of some of the most powerful nations on Earth. Not only that, but they are also backed by a super economy rivaling the U.S. and China"

"Tau are a more productive race than humanity. They sleep less, work more, live to fufill a role in a caste driven society that strives toward progress. If ever a race was destined to create a new form of travel that sets a benchmark it will be the Tau."

His knowledge about the Imperium:

“Termis can be killed by lasguns and guardsmen in close combat.“

"Elite and Imperial Guard is funny."

"When the Imperium has ANYTHING on par with tech like Rail Rifles or Eclipse Shield Gens or hell even Battlesuits you can talk superior tech... Until then, about the only thing better is IoMs FTL method."

"If Horus, the second most powerful human in all of existance could fall to Chaos, I'm not sure how a GK couldn't. "

'The IG is a messy group of bad tactics thrown into limitless numbers, where a bayonet charge can feasibly work, because you have millions upon millions to throw at an objective."

"Believe me I'm a fanboy.A Tau invasion of Terra would be a negotiation, not a war."

Who is being victimized again?

**agnosto**

Well, in all fairness, you did come into a Tau thread and start a fight, you know you did. You could have just ignored the Tau threads but you like to argue, you know you do.

**CpatTom**

Brother Coa wrote:If this was "Battlestar Glactica" I would agree
But seeing that the enemy is a thing that Eldar and Humans at their highest moment couldn't wipe out leave very little hope for Tau.
So A + B should = C as well

Begging the question/induction Fallacy: Assuming that the Human and Eldar can't do it is a false premise used to justify the A+B=C. Human + Eldar couldn't do it proves it is impossible (the false assumption) (although, neither is extinct, so it is entirely within the realm of possibility that it might occur) so the Tau cannot do it either.

Thats right, Human's still have a chance to "win" (IoM in particular). I don't have a problem saying that. Can you say that the Tau have a chance to win?

Winning being complete control of the galaxy.

**nomotog**

It's ok Coa. I still like you. Lets have tea to patch things up.

**King Crow**

It's funny to watch people Tau bash in the thread and then spend the whole time defending themselves from being deemed a jerk.

**NL_Cirrus**

The only way Tau will rule the universe is if every one else kills each other leaving only Tau. And I don't think that's going to happen, because every one knows Sphess Muhreenz will always emerge victorious in the end, and nothing can stop The EMPRAH and blah blah blah.....

**Tadashi**

Iron Hammer never mentioned it was bigger than any Imperial campaign thus far. It only mentioned it was larger than any Tau-Imperial conflict thus far...closer to Armageddon rather than the Sabbat World Crusade.

**xXSir MontyXx**

Not really sure I consider people a jerk for not liking a race. That's kinda what warhammer is about. Having a favoured race you spend money on and another you would never spend a cent on and wanting them to suffer endlessly in the fluff. There's obviously people that hate Tyranid and imperial guard, I ain't gonna get all butt hurt about it haha.
Also, this is the internet. If I type something down as sarcasm or as a joke it is alot harder to tell if that's what my intent is. So I'm sure when it seems that someone is offended they really aren't. No reason to shut down threads and the like cuz it seems like somebody is gonna cry.

**Brother Coa**

CpatTom wrote:
Thats right, Human's still have a chance to "win" (IoM in particular). I don't have a problem saying that. Can you say that the Tau have a chance to win?

Winning being complete control of the galaxy.

Tau would have a chance if you give them several thousand more years. They need bigger population, larger army and better FTL to conquer the good portion of the galaxy. Then they would have chance to win, it all depends on how writers will write fluff.

@nomtog That picture is so sweet

Automatically Appended Next Post:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Not really sure I consider people a jerk for not liking a race. That's kinda what warhammer is about. Having a favoured race you spend money on and another you would never spend a cent on and wanting them to suffer endlessly in the fluff. There's obviously people that hate Tyranid and imperial guard, I ain't gonna get all butt hurt about it haha.
Also, this is the internet. If I type something down as sarcasm or as a joke it is alot harder to tell if that's what my intent is. So I'm sure when it seems that someone is offended they really aren't. No reason to shut down threads and the like cuz it seems like somebody is gonna cry.

This. I have two friends who also play 40k. One is hating Eldar for being arrogant and the other is hating Chaos. I don't insult them around, that's their opinion and that's ok.

**Corporal_Reznov**

KingDeath wrote:
Well, the Tau are in fact able to deal with fairly large scale assaults. The Achilus Crusade has at least 30 billion groundpersonal with one of it's three mainfronts devoted to a single, large ( and well armed )
Tausept ( keep in mind that a sept doesn't necessarily mean just one planet, it includes the septworld itself + the various other/allied planets under the septworld's control ). This front is currently stagnant.
Now compare that with the Sabbat Worlds crusade, which consisted of merely a billion people in all military branches.

While there is no doubt that the Imperium of Man theoreticaly has both the manpower and the technology to destroy the Tau Empire it is also hard to imagine that the sectors of the Eastern Fringe
are currently able and willing to organise and supply a sufficiently large crusade ( like the Achilus Crusade, perhaps even somewhat larger if we assume that the Tau Empire expanded in size and modernised it's navy in the ca 150 years between the Achilus crusade and our new, theoretical crusade ) to combat a relatively minor ( the Tau conquered/ anexed at most a few dozen Imperial worlds within their entire existence while Leviathan has the potential to devoure thousands of worlds; the Skarus Orks threaten an entire sector and possibly even more and the Despoiler, if victorious, could engulf the entire Segmentum in anarchy ) threat.

1] From where did you get the 30 billion number for Imperial personnel(I assume you mean the Imperial Guard)? The only actual number ever stated for the Achilus Crusade is an estimate of 6 Billion Imperial Guard for the entire Crusade.

2] As far as I know The Imperium's offensive has become stagnant due to the beating its taking at the hands of Chaos, Tyranids and rebels As per my fellow 40k SBer's:

Deadguy2001;6910670 wrote:That's just a tad bit disingenuous. The Tau are engaging a tiny fraction of the Crusade forces, the vast majority of whom are busy being eaten by Tyranids.

The impression I got from the rulebook was that the Imperial forces in the Canis salient were outnumbered by the Tau.

Deadguy2001;6911163 wrote:Anyways, Satnav and I have discussed this in PM, and here are the full quotes.

What actually happened on page 16.

The assaults on Rheelas, Argoth, and Kaggeran (whichwould later become collectively known as the “Quarantined Worlds”) were swift and decisive. On the mining world Rheelas only minor skirmishes marred what otherwise would have been the triumphant return of the Imperium. Withinhours of the ﬂeet darkening Rheelas’ sky, Adeptus Astartes had taken the Granite Spire of Rhee and placed the world’s governor and his staff under their ‘protection’. It was a similarstory on Argoth and Kaggeran, a few rebels making feeblestands against regiments of guardsmen and planetary leaders quickly bowing to Imperial rule.

pg 17 wrote:As a result, Achilus wasted little timesetting up garrisons on all three worlds, but moved the bulkof his troops to more pressing warzones.

The full version of your page 101 quote.

pg 101 wrote:Up until the time of Achilus’ death, the region nowcodiﬁed the Canis Salient was the main warzone in the Crusade,huge army groups and massed ﬂeets intent upon reclaiming thoseworlds the Tau had usurped. Achilus was frustrated in his effortsby the unanticipated level of ‘native’ resistance to the Crusade,and he was forced to divert forces from the main advance topacify once-loyal worlds that should, by all rights, have greetedhim as a saviour and added their efforts to the Crusade. With the servants of the Ruinous Powers fomenting war and anarchyin the heart of the Reach, Achilus was unable to bring the fullweight of his ﬂeet to bear on the Tau stronghold worlds, and thewar degenerated into a fruitless, bloody meat grinder

pg 103 wrote:Some whisper that it was Ebongrave’s hubris in covetingcommand of the Acheros Salient that caused Tetrarchus to appoint him to lead one of the two lesser Salients. Perhaps Tetrarchus sought to contain Ebongrave’s ambitions whilst taking full advantage of his prodigious abilities, perceiving inthe Lord Commander a potential rival best kept on a short leash. Whatever the truth, Ebongrave was given command of the Canis Salient. He fully intended to prove himself the better of the three Lord Commanders, and the xenos-pyres of the Greyhell Front would bear witness to his glory

So you really can't use the Jericho Reach as evidence for Tau withstanding anything seeing as the Imperium is battling Chaos and Nids as well as the Tau at the same time.

**Kroothawk**

agnosto wrote:Well, in all fairness, you did come into a Tau thread and start a fight, you know you did. You could have just ignored the Tau threads but you like to argue, you know you do.

To be fair, he started half of the "Tau suck! Discuss!" threads

**Brother Coa**

Kroothawk wrote:
agnosto wrote:Well, in all fairness, you did come into a Tau thread and start a fight, you know you did. You could have just ignored the Tau threads but you like to argue, you know you do.

To be fair, he started half of the "Tau suck! Discuss!" threads

Because of the comments that were posted by certain individuals. Not all of them were Tau suck, some of them was to learn something

**xXSir MontyXx**

Brother Coa wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:
agnosto wrote:Well, in all fairness, you did come into a Tau thread and start a fight, you know you did. You could have just ignored the Tau threads but you like to argue, you know you do.

To be fair, he started half of the "Tau suck! Discuss!" threads

Because of the comments that were posted by certain individuals. Not all of them were Tau suck, some of them was to learn something

I have seen these, and again the intent of typed words was mistaken by Tau individuals.

Not that I care, I love the fluff debates and the stories of Tyranid walking through pulse rounds like a light snow.

**agnosto**

Brother Coa wrote:
Because of the comments that were posted by certain individuals. Not all of them were Tau suck, some of them was to learn something

Ok, I can accept that. If you try to burst the hyperbolic bubble of threads involving every faction; if not, you're just rationalizing your behavior.

**KingDeath**

Tadashi wrote:Iron Hammer never mentioned it was bigger than any Imperial campaign thus far. It only mentioned it was larger than any Tau-Imperial conflict thus far...closer to Armageddon rather than the Sabbat World Crusade.

Iron Hammer has to be larger than the Achilus Crusade ( which utterly dwarfs the rather tiny Sabbat Worlds crusade ) in order to be the largest Tau-Imperial conflict thus far.

**Corporal_Reznov**

KingDeath wrote:
Tadashi wrote:Iron Hammer never mentioned it was bigger than any Imperial campaign thus far. It only mentioned it was larger than any Tau-Imperial conflict thus far...closer to Armageddon rather than the Sabbat World Crusade.

Iron Hammer has to be larger than the Achilus Crusade ( which utterly dwarfs the rather tiny Sabbat Worlds crusade ) in order to be the largest Tau-Imperial conflict thus far.

Not going to post a reply to my post?

**BeefCakeSoup**

Lasguns arent bad coa? Lol coa

Look man, I know you hate the Tau... but how long are you going to blindly follow your own made up awesome IoM romance novel?!

Pulse Rifle > Lasgun
Battlesuit > Space Marine
Fire Warrior > Guardsmen

I mean you can quote me all you want dude, but these are just the facts. And yes, I know you played a video game narrated by a WWE announcer, that talked about the Tau getting drop kicked in a Blood Ravens fapfest... but if we are counting that game... Fire Warrior is on the table.

**1hadhq**

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Coa and Tadashi

Just be glad the full might of the Tau hasn't been brought down on the IoM yet.

We already know the largest attempt at destroying the Tau Empire was larger than any conflict to date and that the IoM lost it, aka The Iron Hammer Campaign.

We know that

Soak that in and understand that unless GW made the Tau get wiped out in their next Codex, the IHC was a loss for the IoM.

BeefCakeSoup wrote: The story concludes it being a tale for another time.

Here is the entry:
"This viewpoint, and the wilfully misinterpreted conclusions that fed it, was the chief perticipating factor in the commencement of the Iron Hammer campaign, which soon escalated into the greatest confrontation yet seen between the Imperium of man and the Tau Empire. But thats another story....."

I'd bet we will see it mentioned in the Tau 5th Edition Codex.

So unless they retcon Tau, chalk this up to another loss for the IoM.

So "we" "know" the outcome of storys untold?

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
KingDeath wrote:
Tadashi wrote:Iron Hammer never mentioned it was bigger than any Imperial campaign thus far. It only mentioned it was larger than any Tau-Imperial conflict thus far...closer to Armageddon rather than the Sabbat World Crusade.

Iron Hammer has to be larger than the Achilus Crusade ( which utterly dwarfs the rather tiny Sabbat Worlds crusade ) in order to be the largest Tau-Imperial conflict thus far.
Not going to post a reply to my post?

He can't.
The sabbat worlds crusade and large conflicts like Armageddon are old fluff, thus use a different more believable scale.
This 'iron hammer' campaign is bare of any data until GW returns to it.
The "achilus crusade" is a 3rd party production, yes?

**Brother Coa**

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Lasguns arent bad coa? Lol coa

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/270799_2180559082759_1510395858_2407599_2318935_n.jpg

No, not bad. Not bad at all, ig goes nicely trough Tau armor.

Look man, I know you hate the Tau...

I don't hate Tau - I hate you. You are the reason Tau are being hated.

Pulse Rifle > Lasgun Lasgun on HIGH setting and Krieg Lasgun>>Pulse Rifle.
Battlesuit > Space Marine Terminator>>Battlesuit
Fire Warrior > Guardsmen Cadian, Krieg, Elysian, Mordian, Preatorian>>>Fire Warrior

I mean you can quote me all you want dude, but these are just the facts.

No, the facts are you don't know anything about the Imperium, you said that Gaurdsman can kill Terminator in melee. Learn something about the Imperium and then make claims.

And yes, I know you played a video game narrated by a WWE announcer, that talked about the Tau getting drop kicked in a Blood Ravens fapfest... but if we are counting that game... Fire Warrior is on the table.

Your point? We have Draigo, Mephiston, Bjorn...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

1hadhq wrote:
So "we" "know" the outcome of storys untold?

He can see the future...

**1hadhq**

Tau threads get where they are because of:

Exhibit A:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Lasguns arent bad coa? Lol coa

Look man, I know you hate the Tau... but how long are you going to blindly follow your own made up awesome IoM romance novel?!

Pulse Rifle > Lasgun
Battlesuit > Space Marine
Fire Warrior > Guardsmen

I mean you can quote me all you want dude, but these are just the facts. And yes, I know you played a video game narrated by a WWE announcer, that talked about the Tau getting drop kicked in a Blood Ravens fapfest... but if we are counting that game... Fire Warrior is on the table.

Sorry facts?
In your dreams maybe..

Without these attempts to glorify your own choice of plastic models by pissing on somebody elses, and weirdly never aimed at anything but imperials, its no wonder if the thread caught attention of the owners of said models covered in your piss...

Isn't it time to consider the rest of the galaxy, those who are not humans ( or no longer count as such ) ?
Still a "royal rumble", this 40k verse.

**Corporal_Reznov**

1hadhq wrote:
He can't.
The sabbat worlds crusade and large conflicts like Armageddon are old fluff, thus use a different more believable scale.

WHAT? Most people I talk to say that the numbers for the Imperium at Armageddon were ridiculously low. The Achilus Crusade number of 6 billion troops are actually very believable seeing as the Achilus Crusade is not for one planet but multiple solar systems and planets. The Achilus Crusade started with a billion troops, similar to the Sabbat Worlds Crusade, which due to the number of foes the crusade is facing was increased until it became 6 billion.

The "achilus crusade" is a 3rd party production, yes?

Yes, so what?

King Death made a claim that the Tau are fighting off 30 billion Imperial troops, that he has yet to prove, when the only true number we have of Imperial troops btw, as far as I know, is 6 billion for the entire crusade and most of those are fighting off the Nids and Chaos.

**Fido198674**

People are taking some things a little too serious it would seem,I least hope they are kidding a little.

I don't care what race people play as, I will bash them, and yes that includes other marines expect my Ultrasmurfs...

In the end, rule and fluff wise, were alll pretty much equal across so I hope no one is taking the bashing too seriously