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Brother Coa wrote:I hate you. You are the reason Tau are being hated.

Brother Coa wrote:And they call me a troll

Nuff said

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Pulse Rifle > Lasgun
Battlesuit > Space Marine
Fire Warrior > Guardsmen

Pulse Rifle simply has greater range. Both the PR and Lasgun are equally lethal.

Power Armor is equally strong to that of Battlesuit armor. Terminator and Artificer armor is superior. This is reflected in the TT stats.

Fire Warriors might have an edge on Guardsmen if the fight is fair numbers-wise. If the Guardsmen have numbers they're going to win. Likewise if the Guardsmen get into CC. Firewarriors must keep and press the advantage of ranged warfare.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Most people I talk to say that the numbers for the Imperium at Armageddon were ridiculously low.

They can say as they want, it doesn't change the age of that fluff , which had 2 still equal forces fighting over a map with just a few cities upon.
The take of GW on numbers isn't same nowadays. When armageddon was codified, there were less "billions" and "trillions" thrown around like there is no tomorrow.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
The Achilus Crusade number of 6 billion troops are actually very believable seeing as the Achilus Crusade is not for one planet but multiple solar systems and planets. The Achilus Crusade started with a billion troops, similar to the Sabbat Worlds Crusade, which due to the number of foes the crusade is facing was increased until it became 6 billion.

No doubt in the age of endless hordes of IG and the map of recrutement centres ( BRB p 138 ) showing tithes of 5 - 50.000.000 per anno,
this size isn't impossible. Any chance to post the size of the opposing forces?

The "achilus crusade" is a 3rd party production, yes?

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Yes, so what?

Just interested in confirmation.

Let's dial it down a bit, folks. Thanks.

Personally, I love the idea of Chaos Tau. Not because I like Chaos, not because I like Tau, but because I LOVE the idea of CHAOS POPE! Seriously, that would be the best character ever.

Woops wrong thread. That's what I get for seeing the word "Tau" and making an assumption. Please see the "Chaos Tau" thread for this exact same comment.

All this thread has shown me is that Imperial fans can dish it but they cant take it without cryin hard!

I mean when someone tries to sciencehammer why lasguns dont suck... el oh el!

Oh and we do know the outcome of the IHC haq! The IoM lost it because its an attack that requires planning... come on dude! Its like they spoiled the story already!

Sorry guys, but Tau > IoM.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:All this thread has shown me is that Imperial fans can dish it but they cant take it without cryin hard!

I mean when someone tries to sciencehammer why lasguns dont suck... el oh el!

Oh and we do know the outcome of the IHC haq! The IoM lost it because its an attack that requires planning... come on dude! Its like they spoiled the story already!

Sorry guys, but Tau > IoM.

And you Tau fanboys dare to act like victims while spewing crap like this at the same time.

I didn't cry hard, I didn't cray at all, troll.

We don't know who won the IHC troll . I pray that the Tau lose just so I can gloat and drink in your delicious impotent tears .

Suffer Not The Tau To Live!!!!

No troll, its Tau<Imperium, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Nids and Chaos.

@1haq

I'll answer your post later. I don't have time right now.>

Oh those wacky tau. Getting everybody all mad and calling each other troll.

One thing that I will say is telling is that they have not allowed the T'au to have repelled a hive fleet or splinter fleet without Imperial, Eldar (or Necron...) assistance in the fluff.

Of course this doesn't say anything directly about the T'au themselves, just that they aren't capable of the same feats that Imperial and Eldar forces are capable of doing.

T'au are a lot more streamlined than the Imperium, and as has been pointed out before while there technology is not superior, they actually use their high technology in combat- whereas the imperial guard tech is primiary focused on cheapness of production. This gives T'au a local technological advantage against Imperial Guard forces. Of course it also means that a T'au force has more valuable equipment than a Guard force. Losing an entire company of las guns and infantry for the Guard is no big deal, its probably a big deal for the T'au.

Also as has been said earlier, the its about as likely that the Imperium will overcome administrative burdens and actually be able to devote as much of its beleagured forces as it would need to stomp out the tau-

As it is unlikey that T'au will develop the tech and more importantly the sheer numbers to take and hold the worlds upon worlds held by the Imperium. Even if they do pull that off, they still would be slowed by the rest of the obnoxious forces in the game. I'll bet the Imperium would gladly let the T'au hold the eye of terror if they thought the little blue guys could do it.

^T'au is a planet. Tau is the race. Just, for clarification.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:All this thread has shown me is that Imperial fans can dish it but they cant take it without cryin hard!

I mean when someone tries to sciencehammer why lasguns dont suck... el oh el!

Oh and we do know the outcome of the IHC haq! The IoM lost it because its an attack that requires planning... come on dude! Its like they spoiled the story already!

Sorry guys, but Tau > IoM.

This is trolling beef. It doesn't serve the Greater Good to get into shouting matches. Please use reason and logic to support claims that can be substantiated. I appreciate your fervor for the Greater Good; however, it would be better served with a cool and reasonable discussion, instead of devolving into over emotional drivel.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:All this thread has shown me is that Imperial fans can dish it but they cant take it without cryin hard!

I mean when someone tries to sciencehammer why lasguns dont suck... el oh el!

Oh and we do know the outcome of the IHC haq! The IoM lost it because its an attack that requires planning... come on dude! Its like they spoiled the story already!

Sorry guys, but Tau > IoM.

And you Tau fanboys dare to act like victims while spewing crap like this at the same time.

I didn't cry hard, I didn't cray at all, troll.

We don't know who won the IHC troll . I pray that the Tau lose just so I can gloat and drink in your delicious impotent tears .

Suffer Not The Tau To Live!!!!


No troll, its Tau<Imperium, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks and Chaos.

@1haq

I'll answer your post later. I don't have time right now.>

Dont forget 'nids

But yes it always ends up with a locked thread when BCS comes into the picture...........

You guys need to stop getting worked up. Beefcake is clearly trolling to get a rise out of you all.

Imperium and Forces of Chaos are probably the two most powerful forces in the Galaxy. Orks are a persistent threat. Think of them as mold or a virus. They'll never be completely wiped out. They deserve their own status apart from the traditional "power" other races hold.

Followed closely would be the Necrons and Tyranids. Lastly you have Tau, Eldar and Dark Eldar. Tau have amazing momentum and technology but will not be considered a Galactic threat until they are able to utilize the warp somehow. Eldar are no longer a threat but rather a potent fighting force should another army have to cross their path. Same as Dark Eldar, they are all dying slowly, but they are incredibly lethal once confronted.

So you have the brutes:
IoM
Chaos

The persistent threats:
Orks
Necrons
Tyranids

The lethal "if encountered":
Tau
Eldar
Dark Eldar

IronSnake wrote:You guys need to stop getting worked up. Beefcake is clearly trolling to get a rise out of you all.

Imperium and Forces of Chaos are probably the two most powerful forces in the Galaxy. Orks are a persistent threat. Think of them as mold or a virus. They'll never be completely wiped out. They deserve their own status apart from the traditional "power" other races hold.

Followed closely would be the Necrons and Tyranids. Lastly you have Tau, Eldar and Dark Eldar. Tau have amazing momentum and technology but will not be considered a Galactic threat until they are able to utilize the warp somehow. Eldar are no longer a threat but rather a potent fighting force should another army have to cross their path. Same as Dark Eldar, they are all dying slowly, but they are incredibly lethal once confronted.

So you have the brutes:
IoM
Chaos

The persistent threats:
Orks
Necrons
Tyranids

The lethal "if encountered":
Tau
Eldar
Dark Eldar

I would move Tyranid to the top of persistent threats, orks are fighting each other and Tyranid so are distracted from everyone else, necrons only bother you if you show up on their doorstep. Maybe even the third brute? Every race has had to deal with the Tyranid and are equally concerned with them. So maybe this;

Big Players:
IoM
Tyranid
Chaos (Chaos is currently stuck like the Tau.)

Persistant:
Orks
Eldar
Necrons

minor:
Tau
Dark Eldar

akaean wrote: <SNIP>

One thing that I will say is telling is that they have not allowed the T'au to have repelled a hive fleet or splinter fleet without Imperial, Eldar (or Necron...) assistance in the fluff.

Of course this doesn't say anything directly about the T'au themselves, just that they aren't capable of the same feats that Imperial and Eldar forces are capable of doing. <SNIP>

In Codex: Tau Empire it indicates that Shadowsun and her forces destroyed (not repelled) a Tyranid splinter fleet without suffering any losses. There is no indication that any other faction was involved in the action.

So tell me when the Imperium, Eldar or even Necron forces have destroyed a splinter fleet without losses and we can agree that those forces are at least capable of doing the same feats as the Tau are capable of doing.

Jefffar wrote:

akaean wrote: <SNIP>

One thing that I will say is telling is that they have not allowed the T'au to have repelled a hive fleet or splinter fleet without Imperial, Eldar (or Necron...) assistance in the fluff.

Of course this doesn't say anything directly about the T'au themselves, just that they aren't capable of the same feats that Imperial and Eldar forces are capable of doing. <SNIP>

In Codex: Tau Empire it indicates that Shadowsun and her forces destroyed (not repelled) a Tyranid splinter fleet without suffering any losses. There is no indication that any other faction was involved in the action.

So tell me when the Imperium, Eldar or even Necron forces have destroyed a splinter fleet without losses and we can agree that those forces are at least capable of doing the same feats as the Tau are capable of doing.

Tell me once that the tyranid adapted to the ammunition of any other race and were thereafter unaffected by it. Emperor save the tau if this happens with a major fleet and not just a splinter..... and we all know that he wont save them.

The Orks are galactic STDs.

I agree, Sir Monty. Tyranids have definitely been portrayed recently as a very BIG player in the larger galactic scheme. I didn't rank them in any particular order. Just wanted to segregate into 3 major categories.

1hadhq wrote:
They can say as they want, it doesn't change the age of that fluff , which had 2 still equal forces fighting over a map with just a few cities upon.
The take of GW on numbers isn't same nowadays. When armageddon was codified, there were less "billions" and "trillions" thrown around like there is no tomorrow.

Is their a problem with the 40k armies to field armies in the billions? The 40k factions outside of Eldar, Dark Eldar or Tau are galactic scale factions and thus billions are just chump change.

No doubt in the age of endless hordes of IG and the map of recrutement centres ( BRB p 138 ) showing tithes of 5 - 50.000.000 per anno,
this size isn't impossible. Any chance to post the size of the opposing forces?

The estimated population of the Imperium is in the quadrillions, 6 billion is chump change. The Imperium has the ship numbers to transport them as per this:


I don't have exact numbers of what the Imperium is facing but this is in-universe action not TT so no two armies having equal numbers. The Imperium's crusade is fighting against Chaos, Tyranids, Tau and Rebels.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:
Dont forget 'nids

Sorry, I just forgot. I'll edit it.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:
I would move Tyranid to the top of persistent threats, orks are fighting each other and Tyranid so are distracted from everyone else, necrons only bother you if you show up on their doorstep. Maybe even the third brute? Every race has had to deal with the Tyranid and are equally concerned with them. So maybe this;

Big Players:
IoM
Tyranid
Chaos (Chaos is currently stuck like the Tau.)

Persistant:
Orks
Eldar
Necrons

minor:
Tau
Dark Eldar

I agree on this ranking.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

IronSnake wrote:

So you have the brutes:
IoM
Chaos

Why brute? It should be Big players.

Jefffar wrote:

akaean wrote: <SNIP>

One thing that I will say is telling is that they have not allowed the T'au to have repelled a hive fleet or splinter fleet without Imperial, Eldar (or Necron...) assistance in the fluff.

Of course this doesn't say anything directly about the T'au themselves, just that they aren't capable of the same feats that Imperial and Eldar forces are capable of doing. <SNIP>

In Codex: Tau Empire it indicates that Shadowsun and her forces destroyed (not repelled) a Tyranid splinter fleet without suffering any losses. There is no indication that any other faction was involved in the action.

So tell me when the Imperium, Eldar or even Necron forces have destroyed a splinter fleet without losses and we can agree that those forces are at least capable of doing the same feats as the Tau are capable of doing.

It is my understanding that Shadowsun and her forces were able to defeat the splinter fleet in space combat using their superior technology to take out tyranid ships at range, ultimately denying them a foothold on planets. This would be considered a rare event seeing as most conflicts result in ground warfare which are extremely messy. Doubly so for the Tau seeing as they lack CC skills.


Reznov: I consider them 'brutes' in the sense that they can impose their will on other forces... at will. More or less. And when they do, they typically win.

Ah, i see that i missed Reznov's initial question from where i have the crusade's numbers.
They can be seen at p.28. The report there mentions that the crusade started with 1 billion soldiers within the frontline regiments which represented a mere 20% of the crusade's
total commitment. The crusade's minimum size at it's start is then, of course, 5 billion people ( if i wrote 6 billion people then i must have had it mixed up with the later number ).
The argument that rebel activity helped to stall the initial crusade is quite right. Just as the imperial crusade draws strenght from conquering new worlds the Tau can hinder the
crusade by enticing the rather unhappy human populations to rebel.

The same report at p.28 mentions that, after the rise of Dagon and the Stigmartus, there are now 6 billion imperial soldiers serving in frontline regiments, which once again represent 20% of
the crusade's strenght. The entire crusade therefore numbers at least 30 billion people.
While Ebongrave is currently expected to hold the imperial worlds within the Canis Salient he also fights a brutal war against the Tau Empire at the Greyhell front:
"The worlds of the Canis Salient largely pacified, Ebongravefocused all of his efforts on the worlds within the Greyhell Front,feeding regiment after regiment into the wars there in an effortto draw the Tau into a war of attrition they could not possibly win."p.102.
So far Ebongrave has been unsucessful. In fact: "Both sides continue to feedmassed armies into the Greyhell Front, whilst casting a waryeye towards the spinward voids, fearful of what horrors mayyet descend from the depths of interstellar space to consume allthat lies in its path." p.102

Regarding the old GW numbers, they were downright idiotic. The smallest Imperial Hiveworld i have found, Scintilla, still has 25 billion inhabitants. Scintilla, just like Armageddon, has only a few, densly populated cities. If we assume that at least 20% of the population can be mobilised ( roughly comparable to what nazi germany managed to mobilise ) then you will quickly notice that a few million orks are utterly insufficient to actualy conquer a Hiveworld.

IronSnake wrote:

Jefffar wrote:

akaean wrote: <SNIP>

One thing that I will say is telling is that they have not allowed the T'au to have repelled a hive fleet or splinter fleet without Imperial, Eldar (or Necron...) assistance in the fluff.

Of course this doesn't say anything directly about the T'au themselves, just that they aren't capable of the same feats that Imperial and Eldar forces are capable of doing. <SNIP>

In Codex: Tau Empire it indicates that Shadowsun and her forces destroyed (not repelled) a Tyranid splinter fleet without suffering any losses. There is no indication that any other faction was involved in the action.

So tell me when the Imperium, Eldar or even Necron forces have destroyed a splinter fleet without losses and we can agree that those forces are at least capable of doing the same feats as the Tau are capable of doing.

It is my understanding that Shadowsun and her forces were able to defeat the splinter fleet in space combat using their superior technology to take out tyranid ships at range, ultimately denying them a foothold on planets. This would be considered a rare event seeing as most conflicts result in ground warfare which are extremely messy. Doubly so for the Tau seeing as they lack CC skills.

I have to say that the best way of beating Nids is by beating them is space but due to the Nids 'Shadow in the Warp', its not easy for the Imperium to concentrate the ships needed to destroy Nids ships.

Reznov: I consider them 'brutes' in the sense that they can impose their will on other forces... at will. More or less. And when they do, they typically win.

Okay, its just everyone tries to impose their will on other races and even n their own race so they're all brutes.

Tau are almost specialized to fight nids. They way there army is organized and the way there tech is gives then a very strong advantage when confronting nids.

Tau can mess up a nid fleet, but that same army can get messed up by a Imperal fleet. Then that imperial fleet can get messed up by that same nid fleet and the cycle starts a new.

Big players:

IoM
Necrons ( assuming unification )



Widespread temporary big players:

Chaos ( next ed? got nearly ignored in 5th )
Tyranid
Orks



Regional medium players:

Eldar
Tau
Dark Eldar

Jefffar wrote:

In Codex: Tau Empire it indicates that Shadowsun and her forces destroyed (not repelled) a Tyranid splinter fleet without suffering any losses. There is no indication that any other faction was involved in the action.

So tell me when the Imperium, Eldar or even Necron forces have destroyed a splinter fleet without losses and we can agree that those forces are at least capable of doing the same feats as the Tau are capable of doing.

In space.
Necrons , Eldar and IN can destroy splinter fleets too.

We don't know the size of said splinter fleet, don't we? Tau don't get the size of the IoM nor the concept of chaos gods. A splinter fleet is maybe not as big as you think and all we have is a "armada" of Tau ships. "Armada" could hint on a noticable amount of vessels.
Its also character fluff and Shadowsun needed a boost.

nomotog wrote:Tau are almost specialized to fight nids. They way there army is organized and the way there tech is gives then a very strong advantage when confronting nids.

Tau can mess up a nid fleet, but that same army can get messed up by a Imperal fleet. Then that imperial fleet can get messed up by that same nid fleet and the cycle starts a new.

What?

Let me reiterate that the tyranid became IMMUNE to pulse rounds (or whatever they are called). I do not call that a specialty. Nor do I look at a flawless victory over a Tiny splinter making them Tyranid hunters. That title would most likely go to necrons. they dont give sustenance to the tyranid to create more of themselves, so every loss they suffer to necrons is just that, a loss. Not oh well we lost a trillion gaunts, well just remake them when we eat the planet. No the Tau do not specialize in combat with Tyranids, far from it.

Yeah I would say nobody is a specialist when it comes to fighting Tyranids except maybe Tyrannic War Ultramarine Vets, and that is a small specialized force. When the Tyranids come to town, nothing is easy for anyone.

IronSnake wrote:Yeah I would say nobody is a specialist when it comes to fighting Tyranids except maybe Tyrannic War Ultramarine Vets, and that is a small specialized force. When the Tyranids come to town, nothing is easy for anyone.

Except Necrons, unless that was retconned in the new 'dex. They get no biomass, and gauss weapons flay away their natural armour as if it wasn't there. Even if the Necrons are defeated, the Nids don't get any biomass, hence why they avoid Tomb Worlds like the plague.

I find it funny that the tau didnt think of this:
recruit psychic aliens with the navigator gene (thats main reason why they cant warp travel, no navigators, no way of safish navigated travel) and made them do the navigatory psychicness....
I could be an ethereal. I would be bawws at it (nooooooo)

Avatar 720 wrote:

IronSnake wrote:Yeah I would say nobody is a specialist when it comes to fighting Tyranids except maybe Tyrannic War Ultramarine Vets, and that is a small specialized force. When the Tyranids come to town, nothing is easy for anyone.

Except Necrons, unless that was retconned in the new 'dex. They get no biomass, and gauss weapons flay away their natural armour as if it wasn't there. Even if the Necrons are defeated, the Nids don't get any biomass, hence why they avoid Tomb Worlds like the plague.

+1

Also +1 to the Clint Eastwood theme.

Also, in the end (specially imperium vs tau in this case) neither would win. Tau arent big enough to take them all on, and the imperium are too busy/lasy/poorly organised/ just no.

I mean, the only reason the Tau werent crushed in the Damcoles crusade was because the imperium left to fight somethin they viewed as more important (the nids first arrivals)

blood lance wrote:I find it funny that the tau didnt think of this:
recruit psychic aliens with the navigator gene (thats main reason why they cant warp travel, no navigators, no way of safish navigated travel) and made them do the navigatory psychicness....
I could be an ethereal. I would be bawws at it (nooooooo)

The navigator gene seems to be something that only a single breed of humans has. Since navigators seem to be generaly loyal to the Imperium of Man ( and why shouldn't they? navigators are basicaly treated like royalty ) there is little chance that the Tau will ever aquire sufficient numbers of them. For the moment they have to rely on their own drives. If they are lucky then they can improve then even further ( Merchant class cruisers reach 1/3 of normal warpspeed, it can be assume that even more modern ships have equaly powerful reactors ).

One other thing...I see the tau being treated the same way "noobs" are in an fps. They are relentlessly beaten up insulted and never given the oppurtunity/time of day/ general attention to actually do anything to make those haters shut up.
Haters gunan hate...but you know what else? Idiots gunna ignore.
Terrible bad pun thing I know.

Also: arent navigator genes found in more than just humans? the way that the fluuf writer goes a little out of their way to describe hwo the tau dont have this gene, they make it sound like everyone and their grandma (race wise) can have the gene.