Tau Empire

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**BrainDeleted**

KingDeath wrote:
The navigator gene seems to be something that only a single breed of humans has. Since navigators seem to be generaly loyal to the Imperium of Man ( and why shouldn't they? navigators are basicaly treated like royalty ) there is little chance that the Tau will ever aquire sufficient numbers of them. For the moment they have to rely on their own drives. If they are lucky then they can improve then even further ( Merchant class cruisers reach 1/3 of normal warpspeed, it can be assume that even more modern ships have equaly powerful reactors ).

Very true. Simply being psychic doesn't necessarily mean you can navigate the warp.

It's important to note that the 1/3 speed is for their fastest vessels. Normal or large vessels can achieve 1/5 speed.

Also, it is important to remember that the Tau warp drive only allows for short jumps whereas the Imperial drive can take you from one side of the galaxy to the other (Very dangerous if you exceed the Astronomican). The Tau can't stay 'in' warp speeds for extended periods. Rather, they have to make several jumps to go long distances.

**Corporal_Reznov**

KingDeath wrote:Ah, i see that i missed Reznov's initial question from where i have the crusade's numbers.
They can be seen at p.28. The report there mentions that the crusade started with 1 billion soldiers within the frontline regiments which represented a mere 20% of the crusade's
total commitment. The crusade's minimum size at it's start is then, of course, 5 billion people ( if i wrote 6 billion people then i must have had it mixed up with the later number ).
The argument that rebel activity helped to stall the initial crusade is quite right. Just as the imperial crusade draws strenght from conquering new worlds the Tau can hinder the
crusade by enticing the rather unhappy human populations to rebel.

The same report at p.28 mentions that, after the rise of Dagon and the Stigmartus, there are now 6 billion imperial soldiers serving in frontline regiments, which once again represent 20% of
the crusade's strenght. The entire crusade therefore numbers at least 30 billion people.
While Ebongrave is currently expected to hold the imperial worlds within the Canis Salient he also fights a brutal war against the Tau Empire at the Greyhell front:
"The worlds of the Canis Salient largely paciﬁed, Ebongravefocused all of his efforts on the worlds within the Greyhell Front,feeding regiment after regiment into the wars there in an effortto draw the Tau into a war of attrition they could not possibly win."p.102.
So far Ebongrave has been unsucessful. In fact: "Both sides continue to feedmassed armies into the Greyhell Front, whilst casting a waryeye towards the spinward voids, fearful of what horrors mayyet descend from the depths of interstellar space to consume allthat lies in its path." p.102

Okay thanks for the reply

.I'll check out the math and my sources on this and will probably give you an answer on whether you're right or not by December 9.

Just as the imperial crusade draws strenght from conquering new worlds the Tau can hinder the
crusade by enticing the rather unhappy human populations to rebel.

Funny you mention this

. We do have humans who are also unhappy being under Tau rule and have actually formed terrorist groups to battle the Tau as mentioned in Deathwatch rpg: Rites of Battle or as mentioned in my thread a while back, human dissidents say that the Tau do 'bad things'

. We also have the humans who, IIRC in the Achilus Assault, welcomed the Tau but when they realized that they were threatened by subjugation fought back against the Tau until they were conquered or that planet with whose humans are now slaves to the A.I who also fought against the Tau or that tribal world.

In the end, the humans of the Jericho Reach like neither the Tau or Imperium and would prefer to be independent from both. I truly find that hilarious

.

1] From what I heard, the rebel groups that slow down the Imperium also fight each other cause we have Tau rebels vs Chaos rebels vs Genestealer rebels, is that right?

2] Again, from what I've heard. Most of the anti-tau and pro-Imperial feeling is due to Ebongrave's policies which are bad due to his insanity, right?

Regarding the old GW numbers, they were downright idiotic. The smallest Imperial Hiveworld i have found, Scintilla, still has 25 billion inhabitants. Scintilla, just like Armageddon, has only a few, densly populated cities. If we assume that at least 20% of the population can be mobilised ( roughly comparable to what nazi germany managed to mobilise ) then you will quickly notice that a few million orks are utterly insufficient to actualy conquer a Hiveworld.

I completely and utterly agree.

blood lance wrote:One other thing...I see the tau being treated the same way "noobs" are in an fps. They are relentlessly beaten up insulted and never given the oppurtunity/time of day/ general attention to actually do anything to make those haters shut up.
Haters gunan hate...but you know what else? Idiots gunna ignore.
Terrible bad pun thing I know.

I would keep quite if Tau fans didn't spank to the Tau by inflating Tau abilities or troll Imperial or hell any other faction with their ignorance.

Also: arent navigator genes found in more than just humans? the way that the fluuf writer goes a little out of their way to describe hwo the tau dont have this gene, they make it sound like everyone and their grandma (race wise) can have the gene.

Humanity developed the Navigator gene, probably by genetic manipulation.

**KingDeath**

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
In the end, the humans of the Jericho Reach like neither the Tau or Imperium and would prefer to be independent from both. I truly find that hilarious .

1] From what I heard, the rebel groups that slow down the Imperium also fight each other cause we have Tau rebels vs Chaos rebels vs Genestealer rebels, is that right?

2] Again, from what I've heard. Most of the anti-tau and pro-Imperial feeling is due to Ebongrave's policies which are bad due to his insanity, right?

Well, the desire to stay independent appears to be quite understandable. After all many worlds faired pretty well without the Imperium or the Tau to bother them.
Of course, with a huge and extremely powerful Chaos cult on the rise and a large Splinterfleet invading the sector such neutrality is suicidal.

1. On some worlds this appears to be the case, yes. There are definately reports of Genesteeler cults within imperial and tau worlds. There is also a Slaaneshi cult active on the world of Carmyn, which is
used by several high ranking officers of the crusade to relax...

2. Ebongrave isn't realy insane ( ok, perhaps he is. But tbh, sanity is for the weak

), just paranoid. The problem is that his paranoia is justified. The Imperium bleeds the newly conquered worlds dry in order to maintain the ongoing crusade.
The Tau are quick to capitalise on this situation and lay the seeds of rebellion wherever they can. Ebongrave has to crack down on any signs of sedition if he wants to keep his new domain intact.
Of course this makes Imperial rule even more burdensome to those who never quite welcomed it.
Ebongrave's ( in my opinion ) only true failing is that he is utterly oposed to any kind of peace between the Sept and the Imperial Forces within the Jericho Reach. This would enable the crusade
to divert more manpower to the other two salients, where the imperium fights enemies that cannot be negotiated with.

**xXSir MontyXx**

Well some people dont just want to work then die

**Tadashi**

Again with the Tau improving their warp technology? Not gonna happen since the Ethereals forbade further warp research since the Fall of Medusa V. And no, the Tau aren't greater than the Imperium, otherwise they'd have conquered the galaxy already, which isn't going to happen, anymore than a Guardsman can defeat a Terminator. And if your tired of Imperium vs. Tau, then let's go with Eldar vs. Tau. If the Tau ever colonize a maiden world, the Swordwind will cut your vaunted Fire Warriors to pieces.

**Corporal_Reznov**

KingDeath wrote:
Well, the desire to stay independent appears to be quite understandable. After all many worlds faired pretty well without the Imperium or the Tau to bother them.
Of course, with a huge and extremely powerful Chaos cult on the rise and a large Splinterfleet invading the sector such neutrality is suicidal.

Agreed. Although I was hoping for you to comment on my little rant about humans being unhappy with the Tau

.

1. On some worlds this appears to be the case, yes. There are definately reports of Genesteeler cults within imperial and tau worlds. There is also a Slaaneshi cult active on the world of Carmyn, which is
used by several high ranking officers of the crusade to relax...

Emperor protect us all!

2. Ebongrave isn't realy insane ( ok, perhaps he is. But tbh, sanity is for the weak ), just paranoid. The problem is that his paranoia is justified. The Imperium bleeds the newly conquered worlds dry in order to maintain the ongoing crusade.

To be fair to the Imperium, its sounds like the reason worlds are being drained is due to the rise of Chaos and the Nids and the resources the Imperium needs to maintain its battle against them. Thus while the worlds rebelling against the Imperium in this situation for being drained are understandable, their acts weaken the Crusade which weakens the current line of defense against the Nids and Chaos

Is my analysis right?

The Tau are quick to capitalise on this situation and lay the seeds of rebellion wherever they can. Ebongrave has to crack down on any signs of sedition if he wants to keep his new domain intact.
Of course this makes Imperial rule even more burdensome to those who never quite welcomed it.

Due to wanting to be independent. Yeah, pretty understandable.

Ebongrave's ( in my opinion ) only true failing is that he is utterly oposed to any kind of peace between the Sept and the Imperial Forces within the Jericho Reach. This would enable the crusade
to divert more manpower to the other two salients, where the imperium fights enemies that cannot be negotiated with.

Well, he does have the mandate along with his fellow commanders to conquer the Jericho Reach which means taking Tauy territory as well. So any alliance is temporary at best and thus not worth the effort in his opinion.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Well some people dont just want to work then die

What? We in real life do the same thing of work and die. So what are you saying?

**xXSir MontyXx**

Read the words; work and die, an imperial citizen on a hive world was just born and has already worked themselves to death by the time you finished saying it.

**Corporal_Reznov**

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Read the words; work and die, an imperial citizen on a hive world was just born and has already worked themselves to death by the time you finished saying it.

You're just exaggerating.

**xXSir MontyXx**

I know, but you understand what I mean now. Here me and you work l, and can at least change jobs or pursue a political or religious life and educate ourselves. Can the same be said for a hiver? Sure they're educated, but just to be productive. Not to better themselves as humans

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

@ xXSir MontyXx : off topic but I read a few pages back you just joined the military, was wondering what branch and unit, me I am freezing my butt off in the 4/25 and am 13F, E-6, one military guy to another

**xXSir MontyXx**

Haha man I'm air force, freezing up in Minot, North Dakota. B-52 PHASE. Crew chief.

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

Air force..thats kinda military

, but hey nice to know ya, take good care of the bombers flown by our grand dads...

stay safe battle.

++++++resume hate fest+++++++++

**xXSir MontyXx**

I will, and they will return the favor to you later one day.

Stay safe as well.

**CpatTom**

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:Air force..thats kinda military , but hey nice to know ya, take good care of the bombers flown by our grand dads...

stay safe battle.

++++++resume hate fest+++++++++

Suddenly the pic makes a ton more sense, Staff Sgt.

USMCR E-3, 0451. (or 92R if I remember the army mos code correctly)

**xXSir MontyXx**

Military ftw HUAH!

**Corporal_Reznov**

xXSir MontyXx wrote:I know, but you understand what I mean now. Here me and you work l, and can at least change jobs or pursue a political or religious life and educate ourselves. Can the same be said for a hiver? Sure they're educated, but just to be productive. Not to better themselves as humans

Productive so they can take care of themselves. Not everything the citizens of the Imperium does is to feed the war effort you know. There are those who work for the private guilds or corporations and do work to get salaries etc.

**xXSir MontyXx**

Yes like with agricultural worlds as well I'm sure they have some breathing room to get things like that done as well.

**Corporal_Reznov**

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Yes like with agricultural worlds as well I'm sure they have some breathing room to get things like that done as well.

For example, in a Dark Heresy adventure, there is are two siblings, a brother and sister, the brother is unlucky enough to be illiterate and out of a job due to the company he worked for getting destroyed by the Inquisition although officially it simply disbanded

. Anyway, his sister, who is literate, managed to find a job in the upper hive and is planning to start moving up and live there.

**CpatTom**

This is why I like the FFG stuff. It gives a picture of 40k thats not on a battlefield, all the time.

I know, "in the future, there is only," blah, blah, blah. There is a lot of war, mostly, but there is still plenty of room for all the other aspects of society that GW hasn't developed.

**xXSir MontyXx**

CpatTom wrote:This is why I like the FFG stuff. It gives a picture of 40k thats not on a battlefield, all the time.

I know, "in the future, there is only," blah, blah, blah. There is a lot of war, mostly, but there is still plenty of room for all the other aspects of society that GW hasn't developed.

+1 I like to read about the normal lives of citizens as well. To know the inter workings of the 40k unoverse

**RAVEN 97**

The Tau don't have what it takes, anyway they spend all of their tine 'grazing'. If any army has what it takes its the Tyranids or
the imperium. But only time will tell!

**IronSnake**

The Tau have the ability, technology, and the dedication to become a major galactic power. They are already considered a potent power simply by being a major TT army.

The only thing keeping the Tau from becoming a galactic power is warp travel. The fact that they have been able to expand and stop their small empire from being overrun tells us that they are a real threat.

A huge threat? No. But they may end up turning into the little engine that could. Slow start, but once it gets moving and builds momentum.... watch out.

**SomeRandomEvilGuy**

IronSnake wrote:The Tau have the ability, technology, and the dedication to become a major galactic power. They are already considered a potent power simply by being a major TT army.

They don't have the numbers, which is a huge problem. They also don't have protection against Psychic powers, which could prove problematic.

The fact that they have been able to expand and stop their small empire from being overrun tells us that they are a real threat.

That's the same as dozens or hundreds of other minor empires though. The only reason that the Tau are talked about so much is because they are a playable army. They do, however, represent the minor xeno factions of 40K. Saying they could become a major threat is the same as every other faction save the Eldar (who realistically, won't.)

**BeefCakeSoup**

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
IronSnake wrote:The Tau have the ability, technology, and the dedication to become a major galactic power. They are already considered a potent power simply by being a major TT army.

They don't have the numbers, which is a huge problem. They also don't have protection against Psychic powers, which could prove problematic.

The fact that they have been able to expand and stop their small empire from being overrun tells us that they are a real threat.

That's the same as dozens or hundreds of other minor empires though. The only reason that the Tau are talked about so much is because they are a playable army. They do, however, represent the minor xeno factions of 40K. Saying they could become a major threat is the same as every other faction save the Eldar (who realistically, won't.)

You're downplaying the fact that this is a "minor" empire that has openly annexed Imperial systems, warranted the full attention of Calgar, thwarted a crusade, wiped out a splinter fleet in a flawless victory and continues to create and advance technology at insane speeds.

The Tau won't annex Terra next codex, but expect them to be established as a major player in their corner of the galaxy. We already got a taste in the Space Marine Codex, with the Zeist Campaign being an attempt at stalling their empire from doubling in size.

I'd expect we will see them paired up against the IG/Ultras next codex.

**IronSnake**

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
IronSnake wrote:The Tau have the ability, technology, and the dedication to become a major galactic power. They are already considered a potent power simply by being a major TT army.

They don't have the numbers, which is a huge problem. They also don't have protection against Psychic powers, which could prove problematic.

The fact that they have been able to expand and stop their small empire from being overrun tells us that they are a real threat.

That's the same as dozens or hundreds of other minor empires though. The only reason that the Tau are talked about so much is because they are a playable army. They do, however, represent the minor xeno factions of 40K. Saying they could become a major threat is the same as every other faction save the Eldar (who realistically, won't.)

Tau are not a minor Empire. Otherwise they would not have their own TT army. They are considered by GW to be a major player. They just aren't a major power on a galactic scale... yet.

**1hadhq**

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

You're downplaying the fact that this is a "minor" empire that has openly annexed Imperial systems, warranted the full attention of Calgar, thwarted a crusade, wiped out a splinter fleet in a flawless victory and continues to create and advance technology at insane speeds.

The Tau won't annex Terra next codex, but expect them to be established as a major player in their corner of the galaxy. We already got a taste in the Space Marine Codex, with the Zeist Campaign being an attempt at stalling their empire from doubling in size.

I'd expect we will see them paired up against the IG/Ultras next codex.

I'd expect them ruined by chaos. You know, they don't care where the skullz and blood comes from...just want the galaxy to burn.

Seriously, stop altering the background to your liking. We already know you like them soooo much.

Corrected version:

Spoiler:

**IronSnake**

I like the Tau. I had a 1200 point Tau army years ago.

That being said, some of you guys (especially beef) need to recognize their current place in the grand scheme of things. This is just common sense and has been spelled out by GW so far:
Tau are not a galactic threat/power. Yet.

There's no insult in that. It's just the way it is right now. They'll keep building on their fluff and before you know it they're gonna get FTL travel and be a serious power. Until then, they aren't.

**xXSir MontyXx**

Agreed, however most of their notable victories so far have been over shadowed by nativity in my opinion. with the only real victory being the tiny Tyranid splinter they killed with no casualties.
Where I disagree though is that they developed tech crazy fast. They have not moved forward very much is.center their arrival in the galaxy, when they caught Gorgon they were just exploiting tech they already had. Humans do that now in real life. There is nothing extraordinary about that.

**SomeRandomEvilGuy**

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
You're downplaying the fact that this is a "minor" empire that has openly annexed Imperial systems, warranted the full attention of Calgar, thwarted a crusade, wiped out a splinter fleet in a flawless victory and continues to create and advance technology at insane speeds.

So have other alien empires. The only real difference is that the Tau have a tendency to integrate the races they conquer. The splinter fleet I assume was a rather small one, since they apparently haven't repeated such a feat (I'm amazed Shadowsun isn't called a mary-sue by this forum. Calgar is, and yet he takes heavy losses in his encounters with his foes. Shadowsun can do it without losing a single soldier, and is apparently astounding in both naval and planetary tractics).

The Tau won't annex Terra next codex, but expect them to be established as a major player in their corner of the galaxy. We already got a taste in the Space Marine Codex, with the Zeist Campaign being an attempt at stalling their empire from doubling in size.

Maybe they will, but a few hundred worlds still isn't a great deal. They may have influence on the Eastern Fringes, but further into the Imperium I doubt they'll achieve a great deal.

IronSnake wrote:Tau are not a minor Empire. Otherwise they would not have their own TT army. They are considered by GW to be a major player. They just aren't a major power on a galactic scale... yet.

How are they a major player if they are stuck on the Eastern Fringes with no influence beyond their very limited sphere? I wouldn't say that the Space Wolves or Blood Angels are major powers by themselves, and yet they both have their own Codex. The Mechanicus is more powerful than any of these, but don't.

**IronSnake**

Because they have a foothold in their area of the galaxy. Because they have superior technology. Because they have their own TT army as according to GW. And because should they find a way to use FTL travel... they're gonna start shaking things up.