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2012/02/06 13:39:31
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Melissia wrote:im2randomghgh wrote:The part where the others don't actually belong to the tau
Oh that. I ignored that because it's wrong.
The Tau state join or die.
Yep.
Examples include The Killing Ground, part of the Ultramarines series, and I believe a similar situation occurs in the Ciaphas Cain books, though I don't remember which.
The Tau are just as ruthless as the Imperium, when they want to be, and when it suits their goals.
Isn't the Tau more like "join or join"? I mean, they won't launch a full-scale invasion after the first contact. They only go military when everything else has already failed.
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My armies:
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2012/02/06 13:41:52
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
...urrrr... I dunno
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AtoMaki wrote:Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Melissia wrote:im2randomghgh wrote:The part where the others don't actually belong to the tau
Oh that. I ignored that because it's wrong.
The Tau state join or die.
Yep.
Examples include The Killing Ground, part of the Ultramarines series, and I believe a similar situation occurs in the Ciaphas Cain books, though I don't remember which.
The Tau are just as ruthless as the Imperium, when they want to be, and when it suits their goals.
Isn't the Tau more like "join or join"? I mean, they won't launch a full-scale invasion after the first contact. They only go military when everything else has already failed.
Well, really, that's more or less the same thing.
"Join or be forced to join," perhaps, is a better way of putting it.
Besides, the point is that the Tau are just as Imperialistic as the IoM, and have no qualms about forcing people into their empire if they want.
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2012/02/06 13:42:04
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Unless they're in one of their spheres of expansion, in which case they will gladly invade on the slightest of pretense.
Such as saying "no, stay off our planet."
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/06 13:42:31
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2012/02/06 13:47:20
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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Until Sicarius came and kicked their asses in Zeist.
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I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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2012/02/06 14:16:50
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Servoarm Flailing Magos
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Existence is pointless anyway. To be alive is to be a fixed, finite point of space with an awareness of your own mentality.
All living creatures are as doomed as the others. So yeah. Or no. Whatever.
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Ever thought 40k would be a lot better with bears?
Codex: Bears.
NOW WITH MR BIGGLES AND HIS AMAZING FLYING CONTRAPTION |
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2012/02/06 14:21:59
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Melissia wrote:im2randomghgh wrote:The part where the others don't actually belong to the tau
Oh that. I ignored that because it's wrong. The Tau state join or die.
Yep.
Examples include The Killing Ground, part of the Ultramarines series, and I believe a similar situation occurs in the Ciaphas Cain books, though I don't remember which.
The Tau are just as ruthless as the Imperium, when they want to be, and when it suits their goals.
Well, even for the Imperial Guard left behind after the Damocles Crusade it was "join or we'll take you to a prisoner camp", which is a pretty generous offer, or at least certainly not what one would describe as ruthless. And this was actual GW studio fluff, not some BL author's interpretation.
Also, every time you refer one of them Cain novels in a fluff discussion, Abbadon kills a kitten. 
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/02/06 14:23:11
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2012/02/06 14:23:39
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
...urrrr... I dunno
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Lynata wrote:Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Melissia wrote:im2randomghgh wrote:The part where the others don't actually belong to the tau
Oh that. I ignored that because it's wrong.
The Tau state join or die.
Yep.
Examples include The Killing Ground, part of the Ultramarines series, and I believe a similar situation occurs in the Ciaphas Cain books, though I don't remember which.
The Tau are just as ruthless as the Imperium, when they want to be, and when it suits their goals.
Well, even for the Imperial Guard left behind after the Damocles Crusade it was "join or we'll take you to a prisoner camp", which is a pretty generous offer, or at least certainly not what one would describe as ruthless. And this was actual GW studio fluff, not some BL author's interpretation.
Also, every time you use one of them Cain novels in a discussion, Abbadon kills a kitten.
Prisoner camp doesn't sound all that kind.
I mean, just look at some of the POW camps in our wars.
ALSO: That's about all Abbadon's capable of doing these days. 
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/06 14:24:15
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2012/02/06 14:25:58
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Prisoner camp doesn't sound all that kind.
I mean, just look at some of the POW camps in our wars.
Well, it's arguably better than dying.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:ALSO: That's about all Abbadon's capable of doing these days.
Cut him some slack, he's got no arms.
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2012/02/06 14:27:25
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
...urrrr... I dunno
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Lynata wrote:Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Prisoner camp doesn't sound all that kind.
I mean, just look at some of the POW camps in our wars.
Well, it's arguably better than dying.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:ALSO: That's about all Abbadon's capable of doing these days.
Cut him some slack, he's got no arms.
Aw, fine, I suppose it's not good form to make fun of the 'armless.
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2012/02/06 14:32:46
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Lynata wrote:Also, every time you refer one of them Cain novels in a fluff discussion, Abbadon kills a kitten.
Dude, every time you take a BREATH, Abbadon kills a kitten.
He hates kittens. He's like the anti-Kharn.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2012/02/06 14:39:34
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
...urrrr... I dunno
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Melissia wrote:Lynata wrote:Also, every time you refer one of them Cain novels in a fluff discussion, Abbadon kills a kitten.
Dude, every time you take a BREATH, Abbadon kills a kitten.
He hates kittens. He's like the anti-Kharn.
It's a well-known fact that Kharn of the World Eaters will never kill a kitten under any circumstances. It's partially to do with residual childhood memories and also the fact that
Kharn finds that kittens are the only creatures that truly understand him.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/06 14:40:04
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2012/02/06 15:15:13
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Melissia wrote:Lynata wrote:Also, every time you refer one of them Cain novels in a fluff discussion, Abbadon kills a kitten.
Dude, every time you take a BREATH, Abbadon kills a kitten.
He hates kittens. He's like the anti-Kharn.
It's a well-known fact that Kharn of the World Eaters will never kill a kitten under any circumstances. It's partially to do with residual childhood memories and also the fact that
Kharn finds that kittens are the only creatures that truly understand him.
Because, if you think about it, cats are the perfect pet for the proper chaoslord. They treat you like a slave, they can have a realy mean streak and most of all, unlike the filthy salvia dispensers we call dogs, they don't give a damn if you life or die. Gods of the Aether, i love cats
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2012/02/06 15:40:50
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Examples include The Killing Ground, part of the Ultramarines series, and I believe a similar situation occurs in the Ciaphas Cain books, though I don't remember which.
The Tau are just as ruthless as the Imperium, when they want to be, and when it suits their goals.
In the first Ciaphas Cain novel, the Tau are present on an Imperial planet where the population has a tau fan-cult. When the Tau hear about a suspicious evil cult, they leave the planet without a fight. Now that is an example of evil oppression 
The Ultramarine novel featuring Tau is "Courage and Honour". Here a tau army of dropships and antigrav tanks fights over a bridge to cross a river. Only the Andy Hoare novel "Savage Scars" is more stupid in portraying Tau (they are characterised there in two ways: Those that splatter by a bolter round or bomb and those that are hacked to death in close combat). Oh, and the main character is motivated by revenge for his battle brother, who died while trying a genocide of Tau on their homeplanet.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Prisoner camp doesn't sound all that kind.
I mean, just look at some of the POW camps in our wars.
Tau officer: "We have won the fight. Now will you join us or go on killing us?"
Human officer:" We would like to go on killing you."
Tau officer: "Then we have to disarm you and keep you in a prisoner camp."
Human officer: "How unkind of you. Please, why don't you let us keep on killing you?"
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2012/02/06 15:43:42
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
...urrrr... I dunno
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Kroothawk wrote:Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Examples include The Killing Ground, part of the Ultramarines series, and I believe a similar situation occurs in the Ciaphas Cain books, though I don't remember which.
The Tau are just as ruthless as the Imperium, when they want to be, and when it suits their goals.
In the first Ciaphas Cain novel, the Tau are present on an Imperial planet where the population has a tau fan-cult. When the Tau hear about a suspicious evil cult, they leave the planet without a fight. Now that is an example of evil oppression
The Ultramarine novel featuring Tau is "Courage and Honour". Here a tau army of dropships and antigrav tanks fights over a bridge to cross a river. Only the Andy Hoare novel "Savage Scars" is more stupid in portraying Tau (they are characterised there in two ways: Those that splatter by a bolter round or bomb and those that are hacked to death in close combat). Oh, and the main character is motivated by revenge for his battle brother, who died while trying a genocide of Tau on their homeplanet.
Well, it was one of them; they tend to blend together in my mind unless they feature the Iron Warriors in some way.
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2012/02/06 15:56:33
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Fireknife Shas'el
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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Kroothawk wrote:Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Examples include The Killing Ground, part of the Ultramarines series, and I believe a similar situation occurs in the Ciaphas Cain books, though I don't remember which.
The Tau are just as ruthless as the Imperium, when they want to be, and when it suits their goals.
In the first Ciaphas Cain novel, the Tau are present on an Imperial planet where the population has a tau fan-cult. When the Tau hear about a suspicious evil cult, they leave the planet without a fight. Now that is an example of evil oppression
The Ultramarine novel featuring Tau is "Courage and Honour". Here a tau army of dropships and antigrav tanks fights over a bridge to cross a river. Only the Andy Hoare novel "Savage Scars" is more stupid in portraying Tau (they are characterised there in two ways: Those that splatter by a bolter round or bomb and those that are hacked to death in close combat). Oh, and the main character is motivated by revenge for his battle brother, who died while trying a genocide of Tau on their homeplanet.
Well, it was one of them; they tend to blend together in my mind unless they feature the Iron Warriors in some way.
So you can't think of any examples?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/06 15:57:44
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2012/02/06 15:59:12
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
...urrrr... I dunno
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nomotog wrote:Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Kroothawk wrote:Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Examples include The Killing Ground, part of the Ultramarines series, and I believe a similar situation occurs in the Ciaphas Cain books, though I don't remember which.
The Tau are just as ruthless as the Imperium, when they want to be, and when it suits their goals.
In the first Ciaphas Cain novel, the Tau are present on an Imperial planet where the population has a tau fan-cult. When the Tau hear about a suspicious evil cult, they leave the planet without a fight. Now that is an example of evil oppression
The Ultramarine novel featuring Tau is "Courage and Honour". Here a tau army of dropships and antigrav tanks fights over a bridge to cross a river. Only the Andy Hoare novel "Savage Scars" is more stupid in portraying Tau (they are characterised there in two ways: Those that splatter by a bolter round or bomb and those that are hacked to death in close combat). Oh, and the main character is motivated by revenge for his battle brother, who died while trying a genocide of Tau on their homeplanet.
Well, it was one of them; they tend to blend together in my mind unless they feature the Iron Warriors in some way.
So you can't think of any examples?
Because Courage and Honour isn't an example?
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2012/02/06 16:18:51
Subject: Re:Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
Mushroom village
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Next up: Is Chaos really evil or is it misunderstood?
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As much as I love Warhammer 40000 and all of it's awesomeness and grim darkness - I must here say Clone Commandos would won the day.
Brother Coa speaking against the imperium!?
This can't be unless....Alpharius, is that you? |
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2012/02/06 17:04:25
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Fireknife Shas'el
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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:nomotog wrote:Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Kroothawk wrote:Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Examples include The Killing Ground, part of the Ultramarines series, and I believe a similar situation occurs in the Ciaphas Cain books, though I don't remember which.
The Tau are just as ruthless as the Imperium, when they want to be, and when it suits their goals.
In the first Ciaphas Cain novel, the Tau are present on an Imperial planet where the population has a tau fan-cult. When the Tau hear about a suspicious evil cult, they leave the planet without a fight. Now that is an example of evil oppression
The Ultramarine novel featuring Tau is "Courage and Honour". Here a tau army of dropships and antigrav tanks fights over a bridge to cross a river. Only the Andy Hoare novel "Savage Scars" is more stupid in portraying Tau (they are characterised there in two ways: Those that splatter by a bolter round or bomb and those that are hacked to death in close combat). Oh, and the main character is motivated by revenge for his battle brother, who died while trying a genocide of Tau on their homeplanet.
Well, it was one of them; they tend to blend together in my mind unless they feature the Iron Warriors in some way.
So you can't think of any examples?
Because Courage and Honour isn't an example?
Can you expand on it then? I'm not sure how that story supports the theory of join or die?
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2012/02/06 17:09:56
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
...urrrr... I dunno
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nomotog wrote:Can you expand on it then? I'm not sure how that story supports the theory of join or die?
Ah, I see what you mean. My apologies.
Well, basically, the Tau 'peacefully' integrate into human society at first under the pretence of simply negotiating trade agreements, but when it seems that such a course of action won't work, they resort to out-and-out military conquest in a bid to capture the planet of Pavonis.
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2012/02/06 17:30:40
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle
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Lynata wrote:Fralethepalewhale wrote:Melissia wrote:Harriticus wrote:Even though the Tau are hardly 100% innocent, they're still a helluva better then anyone else and I'd much rather live under Tau rule. I stand by that.
Until you're put in to a slave camp and have your balls cut off so you can't breed, right?
I thought that was only in the Dawn of War series, where does it actually say that in the fluff? Unless your counting DOW as your fluff.
It's all fluff. But fluff contradicts other fluff fairly often. According to Gav Thorpe, there is no distinction in importance or "truthness" between studio material and licensed productions - they are all just different interpretations of the same 'verse, none being more valid than the other, and you're supposed to pick what you like, or come up with your own ideas. Though even in DoW it wasn't quite stated this dramatically. Not that this would not mean that one couldn't simply take it that way if he or she so wished.
yes that is right. ther just creeping forward, bony joints and chitinous plates shown up in the white glare of the searchlights. the light glitters off their eyes, countless shining orbs that reflected back at me(pay attention here!) . those eyes seem dead, theres no emotion, nothing. not even a touch of hunger. ironicly wrote by gav thorpe and looking back at from the depths of its mind I percieved what I can only describe as an immortal hunger. blah about not being able to slay it. that contradicts
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/06 17:43:14
For those whovians out there, I something planned.
Something big.
MWOHOHOHOHAHAHAHAH! |
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2012/02/06 22:38:56
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
Chicago
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It seems to me that a few of you are under the impression that a POW camp is a just high security summer camp. POW camps are not pleasant, and are certainly not noblebright, or humane.
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Guardsmen, Fire!  
...Feth yeah!
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2012/02/06 23:25:21
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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moom241 wrote:POW camps are not pleasant, and are certainly not noblebright, or humane.
But it is better than let several thousand fanatics go on massacring your people
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2012/02/06 23:27:49
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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Kroothawk wrote:moom241 wrote:POW camps are not pleasant, and are certainly not noblebright, or humane.
But it is better than let several thousand fanatics go on massacring your people
No it's not. Better to die than rot in a camp.
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I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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2012/02/06 23:43:52
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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KingDeath wrote:Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Melissia wrote:Lynata wrote:Also, every time you refer one of them Cain novels in a fluff discussion, Abbadon kills a kitten.
Dude, every time you take a BREATH, Abbadon kills a kitten.
He hates kittens. He's like the anti-Kharn.
It's a well-known fact that Kharn of the World Eaters will never kill a kitten under any circumstances. It's partially to do with residual childhood memories and also the fact that
Kharn finds that kittens are the only creatures that truly understand him.
Because, if you think about it, cats are the perfect pet for the proper chaoslord. They treat you like a slave, they can have a realy mean streak and most of all, unlike the filthy salvia dispensers we call dogs, they don't give a damn if you life or die. Gods of the Aether, i love cats
Dogs are a good Alpha Legion pet though. You think they're on your side, and they act all upset when you die, but they'll still eat you once they realise they can't open the tins of food.
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Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. You can play the best chess in the world, but at the end of the day the pigeon will still knock all the pieces off the board and then gak all over it. |
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2012/02/07 00:42:06
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Tadashi wrote:Kroothawk wrote:moom241 wrote:POW camps are not pleasant, and are certainly not noblebright, or humane.
But it is better than let several thousand fanatics go on massacring your people
No it's not. Better to die than rot in a camp.
Easy to say from within your presumably comfortable home.
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2012/02/07 00:48:12
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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KingDeath wrote:Tadashi wrote:Kroothawk wrote:moom241 wrote:POW camps are not pleasant, and are certainly not noblebright, or humane.
But it is better than let several thousand fanatics go on massacring your people
No it's not. Better to die than rot in a camp.
Easy to say from within your presumably comfortable home.
A fair point. But my Japanese heritage obliges me to seek death than endure the dishonor of being a POW.
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I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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2012/02/07 00:54:29
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Tadashi wrote:KingDeath wrote:Tadashi wrote:Kroothawk wrote:moom241 wrote:POW camps are not pleasant, and are certainly not noblebright, or humane.
But it is better than let several thousand fanatics go on massacring your people
No it's not. Better to die than rot in a camp.
Easy to say from within your presumably comfortable home.
A fair point. But my Japanese heritage obliges me to seek death than endure the dishonor of being a POW.
At the moment i hope that it isn't your Japanese heritage which obliges you to spout nonsense 
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2012/02/07 00:58:59
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
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No. But I refuse to become a prisoner. It's not a good story to tell your grandchildren, about how the enemy were better soldiers. I'd rather charge into glorious death with a banzai charge. And the Japanese surrendered only because our Emperor told us to. Will not comment on that.
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I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
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2012/02/07 01:22:17
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Tadashi wrote:No. But I refuse to become a prisoner. It's not a good story to tell your grandchildren, about how the enemy were better soldiers. I'd rather charge into glorious death with a banzai charge. And the Japanese surrendered only because our Emperor told us to. Will not comment on that.
The dead do not have grandchildren whom they can tell anything. Besides that, your attempts at historical revisionism are amusing but ultimately vain. There was nothing glorious about Banzai charges ( in fact they were naught but one sign of an utterly barbaric and ultimately self destructive ideology which deserved to be crushed ) and even less glory could be found in the final surrender of the Japanese Empire, which happened at least one year too late. But of course it is easy to speak about glorious death and all that bs when you don't have to face such a situation.
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2012/02/07 01:28:55
Subject: Tau, more Grimdark than they first appear?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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BL interpretations are the prime source of "darker" Tau. The official GW fluff makes them out to be far better than the Imperium.
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My Armies:
5,500pts 
2,700pts 
2,000pts 
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Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts