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Fralethepalewhale wrote:Unless your counting DOW as your fluff.

DoW is counted as fluff, but only Space Marine ending for Dark Crusade and Imperial Guard ending for Soulstorm because those two are official ones and the rest were fun made for masses. The sterilization is mentioned in Dark Crusade Tau ending, and it is in fact - hinted as Human population of that world declined for more them half in short time.
I remember hearing that this was also mentioned in some book ( regarding Deathwatch ), but since that is from Imperial point of view and there is no official Tau source on it we can't regard it as real cannon. We can only wait and see how will writers continue Tau story and how will they evolve them.

Doesn't the Deathwatch RPG also make a joke about the Xenology book's idea regarding Ethereals supposedly having an organ for mind control? I recall someone mentioned this in a thread about Tau last week.

Though the joke is an insider - you don't really get it unless you have read Xenology, too. On the other hand, most DW players will have probably at least heard about the head crystal thingie, I think, even if only on a forum. It's one of the main arguments of the "Tau are evil!" faction of the community and as such gets thrown around as "proof" fairly often.

In my mind, the Tau will always be the more "good" of the races, since they don't just kill whatever they meet outright. To the OP, I haven't read that book but I'm going to look into it, sounds interesting.

AtariAssasin wrote:In my mind, the Tau will always be the more "good" of the races, since they don't just kill whatever they meet outright. To the OP, I haven't read that book but I'm going to look into it, sounds interesting.

The Imperium doesn't either.

People always forget that there are xenos protectorates in the Imperium...

The Tau are grimdark, they're just not that obvious about it.

Re-education camps/indoctrination the Greater Good - how is that different from what the Ecclesiarchy does with Imperial religion?
The castes are all conditioned to function under the Ethereals, they can function just as well without an Ethereal - look at Farsight. The Greater Good is just a dictatorship of the Ethereals. It's the same with the Imperium being dependent on the Emperor, except that the Imperium really is dependent on the Emperor, and not just conditioned to be dependent.

And the Tau are lucky. The Orks haven't really invaded them on a massive scale, although the War of Dakka might change that soon, and they're located far from the Eye of Terror, so the Traitor Legions can't touch them. Otherwise, Lorgar and Magnus would appear with their Legions and kick the Tau's ass for being atheist.

and there goes the otherwise interesting conversation....

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote: and there goes the otherwise interesting conversation....

But it's true. Tau are grimdark, and lucky. It just doesn't show, that's all.

Melissia wrote:

AtariAssasin wrote:In my mind, the Tau will always be the more "good" of the races, since they don't just kill whatever they meet outright. To the OP, I haven't read that book but I'm going to look into it, sounds interesting.

The Imperium doesn't either.

People always forget that there are xenos protectorates in the Imperium...

What?! Since when? I've never heard that before, do you have a source?

EDIT: Sounds argumentative, sorry. I'm just genuinely looking for more info.

AtariAssasin wrote:

Melissia wrote:

AtariAssasin wrote:In my mind, the Tau will always be the more "good" of the races, since they don't just kill whatever they meet outright. To the OP, I haven't read that book but I'm going to look into it, sounds interesting.

The Imperium doesn't either.

People always forget that there are xenos protectorates in the Imperium...

What?! Since when? I've never heard that before, do you have a source?

EDIT: Sounds argumentative, sorry. I'm just genuinely looking for more info.

Agreed I've never known the IOM to have Xeno Protectorates. Just skimmed through Xenology, and it raised some interesting questions. Since there is the theory that the Eldar created the Tau to be a "Chaos Free" race can they still be considered Grimdark? Did the Eldar fail in their mission, if they even had a mission with the Tau. And I agree that the Tau are somewhat Grimdark, but they are waaaaaay more subtle about it.

AtariAssasin wrote:

Melissia wrote:

AtariAssasin wrote:In my mind, the Tau will always be the more "good" of the races, since they don't just kill whatever they meet outright. To the OP, I haven't read that book but I'm going to look into it, sounds interesting.

The Imperium doesn't either.

People always forget that there are xenos protectorates in the Imperium...

What?! Since when? I've never heard that before, do you have a source?

EDIT: Sounds argumentative, sorry. I'm just genuinely looking for more info.

She always brings them up to try to make the empire sound like your friendly neighborhood Holy Imperium of Man. Imperial protectorates aren't being protected by the Imperium. They are quarantine or "we'll kill you later zones" that come about when the Imperium failed to wipe out the indigenous people there the first time around.

The Tau are very Grimdark. The fact that they are so naive to the horrors of the universe and maintain a futile ideology is what is so Grimdark to the observer: you realise that their Empire is doomed to fail and yet they still smile, oblivious to this fact. One feels almost sorry for them/

Fralethepalewhale wrote:

AtariAssasin wrote:

Melissia wrote:

AtariAssasin wrote:In my mind, the Tau will always be the more "good" of the races, since they don't just kill whatever they meet outright. To the OP, I haven't read that book but I'm going to look into it, sounds interesting.

The Imperium doesn't either.

People always forget that there are xenos protectorates in the Imperium...

What?! Since when? I've never heard that before, do you have a source?

EDIT: Sounds argumentative, sorry. I'm just genuinely looking for more info.

Agreed I've never known the IOM to have Xeno Protectorates. Just skimmed through Xenology, and it raised some interesting questions. Since there is the theory that the Eldar created the Tau to be a "Chaos Free" race can they still be considered Grimdark? Did the Eldar fail in their mission, if they even had a mission with the Tau. And I agree that the Tau are somewhat Grimdark, but they are waaaaaay more subtle about it.

That was a fan theory so yes it still exists as a highly improbable fan theory.

Xenos Protectorates? Since when? That idea was dropped during the Great Crusade thanks to Fulgrim's protests. The Watchers in the Dark are xenos, but they're not sentient, and more like slaves to the Dark Angels.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:The Tau are very Grimdark. The fact that they are so naive to the horrors of the universe and maintain a futile ideology is what is so Grimdark to the observer: you realise that their Empire is doomed to fail and yet they still smile, oblivious to this fact. One feels almost sorry for them/

How long will they last? How long until the War of Dakka escalates into an Armageddon-level Waaagh!? How long until the Word Bearers and the Thousand Sons come to 'enlighten' them? And most importantly, what does the Imperium plan to do about it?

You pretty much got it right there. The idea is the Fulgrim incident wasn't the only time the Imperium proposed that.
The only exception is the Jokearo but that's a whole other can of worms you don't want to open.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

AtariAssasin wrote:

Melissia wrote:

AtariAssasin wrote:In my mind, the Tau will always be the more "good" of the races, since they don't just kill whatever they meet outright. To the OP, I haven't read that book but I'm going to look into it, sounds interesting.

The Imperium doesn't either.

People always forget that there are xenos protectorates in the Imperium...

What?! Since when? I've never heard that before, do you have a source?

EDIT: Sounds argumentative, sorry. I'm just genuinely looking for more info.

She always brings them up to try to make the empire sound like your friendly neighborhood Holy Imperium of Man. Imperial protectorates aren't being protected by the Imperium. They are quarantine or "we'll kill you later zones" that come about when the Imperium failed to wipe out the indigenous people there the first time around.

Holy? Most Astartes would laugh. The Imperium simply is. It's neither holy nor profane.

Fralethepalewhale wrote:

AtariAssasin wrote:

Melissia wrote:

AtariAssasin wrote:In my mind, the Tau will always be the more "good" of the races, since they don't just kill whatever they meet outright. To the OP, I haven't read that book but I'm going to look into it, sounds interesting.

The Imperium doesn't either.

People always forget that there are xenos protectorates in the Imperium...

What?! Since when? I've never heard that before, do you have a source?

EDIT: Sounds argumentative, sorry. I'm just genuinely looking for more info.

Agreed I've never known the IOM to have Xeno Protectorates. Just skimmed through Xenology, and it raised some interesting questions. Since there is the theory that the Eldar created the Tau to be a "Chaos Free" race can they still be considered Grimdark? Did the Eldar fail in their mission, if they even had a mission with the Tau. And I agree that the Tau are somewhat Grimdark, but they are waaaaaay more subtle about it.

Let me help you:

"Some human organisations, including some factions of the Inquisition, individual Navigator families, the Illuminati brotherhood, etc., even have certain secret dealings and alliances with the Eldar. All these agreements are always carefully guarded secrets, as they would be considered treason by other more conservative factions of the Imperium. One such pact is the Coven of Isha.

The Coven of Isha is a secret pact between some members of the Ordo Xenos and Eldrad Ulthran of Craftworld Ulthwé. The Coven has rarely been invoked, for the Eldar rarely require the help of the Imperium and the Imperium never looks toward xenos for help. It involved the creation of a Wraithbone chamber for communications with Farseer Ulthran and had been constructed in a secret chamber at the Ramugan space station.

According to the Coven's librarium, the information from the Eldar through this pact has been linked to a number of disastrous events that engulfed the Imperium which include the Sanapan Scouring, the Mortis Annihilation, the Third Coming of Orian and the Battle of Armageddon.1 The most recent time that the Coven was activated was when Deathwatch marines from the Ordo Xenos had to retake an Eldar relic for Eldrad."

Certain individuals, like Captain Gabriel Angelos of the Blood Ravens have had friendlier contact with certain Eldar. The Blood Ravens chapter in particular has had unclear contacts with the Eldar throughout its history. This is for obvious reasons kept secret by all parties involved. Ironically, the secrecy surrounding the Blood Ravens' actions with the Eldar could possibly be one contributing factor to the chapter being largely unaware of its history.

Although friendly dealings with aliens is almost unthinkable, Rogue Traders are allowed to barter and trade with aliens."

From these examples you can round up the rest.

Small, isolated incidents by individuals or fringe factions for the percieved betterment of Humanity within that region, do not equal "Xenos Protectorates" tbh.

Ratius wrote:Small, isolated incidents by individuals or fringe factions for the percieved betterment of Humanity within that region, do not equal "Xenos Protectorates" tbh.

It does shows that even Imperium is ready to take it's hate aside to combat a common threat.
13'th Black Crusade and Eldar aid to the Imperial Navy is good example for that.

Totally agree BC, Im just saying cooperating with Xenos in limited ways and times is much different to having Xenos enclaves or vast areas where they thrive under the Imperium. I admit Melissa probably wasnt getting at that but it could be interpreted that way.

Tadashi wrote:Re-education camps/indoctrination the Greater Good - how is that different from what the Ecclesiarchy does with Imperial religion?

After WW2, the Western Allies indoctrinated proven Nazis with ideas of democracy and human rights. How is that different from Nazi indoctrination (no really, think about it, if you don't get the difference)

Tadashi wrote:The castes are all conditioned to function under the Ethereals, they can function just as well without an Ethereal - look at Farsight.

Without Ethereals, the other castes could have had a damn fine bloody civil war ending the Tau race. But those ethereal spoil-funs stopped the massacre and now everyone must live in a peaceful society, how cruel!

BTW Melissia has read enough Tau threads to know that she is spreading false information, so it is deliberate.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:I know thats what eventually drew me to them, it took a while, and was what actually kept me in the hobby, I had long ago tired of the gothic and overly dark atmosphere of the setting its unique quality had grown stale to me.

But something new sparked my interest, and I dabbled in the Tau and their worldview and look, and it rekindled my ethusiasim for the game and setting.

Now I know there are many non-tau fans who find them un-fitting to the setting and such are set against them being less grimdark then their own favorite race/army whatnot. Thats fine you dont have to play them collect them or even read about them, and if its such a issue you dont even need to play against them, unless tournies are your thing.
And if in future editions GW sees itself fit to darken them yet further oh well not much we can do about it, I will likely continue in the same vein as I have been for a few years now, and maintain my Septs much more hopeful mindset.

That's exactly my take on it. After playing Tyranids in 2nd edition and a frustrating 3rd edition starter box, I quit 40k, until Tau gave a fresh start as being the only race not wanting to kill everything in sight with foam coming from their mouths. Even if Mat Ward decides to make them Chaos tau, I will go on playing them as intended.

Do you really think that Matt Ward would make a Chaos Tau...? Or is this just a Matt Ward beat down? I thought the whole purpose and creation of the Tau was to be a race without Chaos, or am I just delusional?

In the next codex, I'd really like to see the conflict between farsight and the empire get bigger. Not sure if it should be a real civil war, but there should be a bigger rift that threatens the facade of the empire.

Rented Tritium wrote:In the next codex, I'd really like to see the conflict between farsight and the empire get bigger. Not sure if it should be a real civil war, but there should be a bigger rift that threatens the facade of the empire.

Agreed! I think that the conflict should be a lot bigger, and like you said not full on civil war but like a little more apparent in the codex. Maybe some even more separatists, like Farsight, but I'm still not sure about chaos...

Rented Tritium wrote:In the next codex, I'd really like to see the conflict between farsight and the empire get bigger. Not sure if it should be a real civil war, but there should be a bigger rift that threatens the facade of the empire.

I would also want to see Farsight to kill all Ethereals, declare himself an Emperor of Tau and start a crusade against the Imeprium.
That woudl be great to see.

Thanks for the information regarding the protectorates. I was aware of the shaky alliances held together at times of need and trade occasionally. I think maybe I'll start taking Melissia's posts with a grain of salt.

Brother Coa wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:In the next codex, I'd really like to see the conflict between farsight and the empire get bigger. Not sure if it should be a real civil war, but there should be a bigger rift that threatens the facade of the empire.

I would also want to see Farsight to kill all Ethereals, declare himself an Emperor of Tau and start a crusade against the Imeprium.
That woudl be great to see.

That would actually be a REALLY good story. As a part of the new codex, Farsight Declares war on all of the Ethereal's and he creates some tension among the Castes and then the Ethereal's are no longer completely trusted. OHHHHHHHH MAN

Kroothawk wrote:
BTW Melissia has read enough Tau threads to know that she is spreading false information, so it is deliberate

Come on Kroothawk, we all know what are you dreaming every night:

Brother Coa wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:
BTW Melissia has read enough Tau threads to know that she is spreading false information, so it is deliberate

Come on Kroothawk, we all know what are you dreaming every night:

Spoiler:

Pot calling the kettle etc etc etc.

Seriously people, where is your sense of humor?

Brother Coa wrote:I would also want to see Farsight to kill all Ethereals, declare himself an Emperor of Tau and start a crusade against the Imeprium.
That woudl be great to see.

Fralethepalewhale wrote:That would actually be a REALLY good story. As a part of the new codex, Farsight Declares war on all of the Ethereal's and he creates some tension among the Castes and then the Ethereal's are no longer completely trusted. OHHHHHHHH MAN

No Tau thread complete without posts like these
Enjoy your genocide fantasies ... in private