Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Tadashi wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

1hadhq wrote:

Enigma Crisis wrote:

I'll say this again, the Tau Empire is similar to the Roman Empire in their conquests of Europe, Either you join us or die. You had to earn your Roman citizenship by serving in the Roman Army. The Tau however gave citizenship when you joined automatically.

The Tau Empire is like the British Empire of old. If you weren't born in the ruling family you could never become King or Queen of England. The British populace eventually grew tired of it and rebel against the King and made it more of a democracy. The Tau species, however, is just happy with the Ethereal's ruling them except Farsight.

All the Auxillary of the Tau Empire will never be able to rule the Tau Empire but they can hold positions of limited power like maybe mayor or governor. Just like in America where you have to be a Native born American to become President but you can still become governor or senator if you are not. Just like Schwarzenegger did.

The Romans never used such join us or die nonsense. They just conquered.
Plus, rulers of the Roman empire weren't always romans....
Especially parts of the auxilaria became one of the major powers at the end.

Seems the Romans aren't a good idea if you try to make a point in a Tau thread.

@im2randomghgh:

I mean, the assumptions made of the future in 40k are pretty off. The background is tied to the game and thus the upcoming new focus ...
CHAOS .... will hit them hard.

And then tau will get their update GW better get Chaos and Eldar done quickly.

Hurry up with the new Imperial Guard and Space Marine Codices first, then Chaos, then Eldar. Leave the Tau for last.

Yes, they are going to make 7 space marine updates, the eldar update, the chaos update and the Imperial Guard update before tau. /sarcasm.

You do realize tau are likely going to be 5ed made for 6ed right? So they'd have to make a second 5ed codex for all those armies for them to be before tau right? Right. How can you actually be itching for new codices for races who's codices are still current?

Also, I fixed your spelling of the word "codices". "Codexes" isn't a word.

Perhaps, just perhaps, Codex: Blood Ravens at last...

And your one hell of a tech heretic, you know that? Why are you piloting a god-machine when you're a Tau? Or should I ring my Terminator brothers and have them reclaim the Titan?

Tadashi wrote:Perhaps, just perhaps, Codex: Blood Ravens at last...

Oh GOD no. There is absolutely ZERO reason for an abomination like that ever to be created. For one thing they are codex compliant, for another there are so many marine codices already they need to be condensed or simply purged...

im2randomghgh wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Perhaps, just perhaps, Codex: Blood Ravens at last...

Oh GOD no. There is absolutely ZERO reason for an abomination like that ever to be created. For one thing they are codex compliant, for another there are so many marine codices already they need to be condensed or simply purged...

Perhaps not. But I wish they'd bring in Angelos as a special character, or at least allow for more varied Chapter options that allow the Blood Ravens to field more Librarians or even Librarian-Dreadnoughts.

Tadashi wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Perhaps, just perhaps, Codex: Blood Ravens at last...

Oh GOD no. There is absolutely ZERO reason for an abomination like that ever to be created. For one thing they are codex compliant, for another there are so many marine codices already they need to be condensed or simply purged...

Perhaps not. But I wish they'd bring in Angelos as a special character, or at least allow for more varied Chapter options that allow the Blood Ravens to field more Librarians or even Librarian-Dreadnoughts.

And the two librarians for a half company as it is now on the TT isn't enough? Assume the BR have enough to field this, that would mean 36 Librarians in their chapter, which is probably more than they actually have.

Angelos as a Special character is fair enough, but at the same time think there are a lot of other chapters that are large and well known without SC, like Iron Hands.

Also, something I noticed, the IF+successors seem to have a lot of special stuff. Lysander, Cantor and an entire other codex for BT. only Ultrasmurfs have more

@ im2randomghgh

The Emperor will most certainly not live forever. If memory serves, his golden Lay-z-boy is falling apart right now. A couple editions ago, he was an old man on a life support system. Now he's a skeleton on a life support system, he is dying and one of the two possibilities that tadashi described will most likely happen.

Tadashi wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Perhaps, just perhaps, Codex: Blood Ravens at last...

Oh GOD no. There is absolutely ZERO reason for an abomination like that ever to be created. For one thing they are codex compliant, for another there are so many marine codices already they need to be condensed or simply purged...

Perhaps not. But I wish they'd bring in Angelos as a special character, or at least allow for more varied Chapter options that allow the Blood Ravens to field more Librarians or even Librarian-Dreadnoughts.

Space Marine Captain/ Chaptermaster + thunderhammer -> You have Captain / Chaptermaster Angelos \o/
Space Marine Captain + lightning claw -> Diomedes
Chaos Spacemarine Havok with heavy bolter -> Avitus

If you want Librarians then take the three Librarian HQ choices you are allowed to have. Seriously, besides a somewhat higher amount of Librarians within the chapter ( a trait which is shared with the Silverskulls and the Howling Gryphons ) the Bloodravens are a codex adherent chapter and therefore, with the exception of Librarian dreads ( whcih they might not even have ) well represented by the current vanilla sm codex.
If every small doctrinal difference would require a new codex then we would have about a billion guard books, an equaly large amount of ork books, about a dozen+ tau books, hundreds if not thousands of Chaos spacemarine books as well as an equal amount of imperial marine books.

Its pretty easy to see that Tau are speciest. They have no leaders that are not Tau. And it pro ably won't happen anytime soon.

So we are looking for a new fleet commander, this human we just indoctrinated led a fleet already and has won countless battles to victory.
Yeah but this Tau ship captain escorted me to that planet to do the indoctrination...... yep he gets the job. Human can be a squad leader, of humans of course.

My personal take on this cross species dynamic, is new racial additions will work/earn their way into postions of athourity based on ability, and loyalty, so maybe down the line in a few generations there may well be a gue'vesa army commander, or a vespid, or Kroot, or demiurg or whatnot, commanding forces in the field and advancing the Greater Good , and leading combined racial forces.

Its to wasteful to the Tau not to take adavantage of ability, it will just be a trust that is built and earned, and yes the Tau will be the first amoung equals as has been stated many times in offical fluff, just to this point no non Tau has been given this accolade, other than Anghor prok, it will likely also mean a non-tau will have to work quite a bit harder to earn this position as well.

It would make for some nice fluff posibilities and cool special characters as well, hopefully not a opportunity that GW passes up.

Kroothawk wrote:BTW have a look at my avatar and you see a general of the Tau Empire army.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote: I've never heard of non-Tau commanding Tau, only the other way round (and man do the Kroot seem to take the most losses).

xXSir MontyXx wrote:They have no leaders that are not Tau. And it pro ably won't happen anytime soon.

Again, we don't know much about non-Tau in the Tau empire. One of the few things we know is that a Kroot named Anghkor Prok has been a general leading a Tau army.

Kroothawk wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:BTW have a look at my avatar and you see a general of the Tau Empire army.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote: I've never heard of non-Tau commanding Tau, only the other way round (and man do the Kroot seem to take the most losses).

xXSir MontyXx wrote:They have no leaders that are not Tau. And it pro ably won't happen anytime soon.

Again, we don't know much about non-Tau in the Tau empire. One of the few things we know is that a Kroot named Anghkor Prok has been a general leading a Tau army.

About the kroot taking more losses, going into battle armourless and engaging in CC will do that, SomeRandomEvilGuy.

Even so, Tau still get top spots. They're only free at first glance, otherwise, they're just as discriminatory as everyone else in 40k is.

I don't think you can say exactly that. Tau are at least one octave nicer then everyone else and that's with there darker fluff. Some of there early stuff is crazy nice. Almost magical in how they work.

nomotog wrote:I don't think you can say exactly that. Tau are at least one octave nicer then everyone else and that's with there darker fluff. Some of there early stuff is crazy nice. Almost magical in how they work.

Then why is it that the Castes are forbidden from mating with one another? True, it's too keep them specialized, but it also ensures that only the Ethereals control the government. And while the Kroot are tolerated, Tau still consider them savages. Vespid language helmets reek of subliminal messaging and mental control. Is it just coincidence, or are the gue'vesa positioned deliberately in the Imperium's potential invasion lines? Face it, they may be 'equal', but in the Empire, Tau come first, and then the Ethereals are above even the Tau. I don't see any difference with the Eldar's and Mankind's belief in superiority and manifest destiny.

Tadashi wrote:They're only free at first glance, otherwise, they're just as discriminatory as everyone else in 40k is.

Hmm... do I believe the designers of this race or you? Sorry, i rather believe that the designers know how they designed the race.

And no, it is not by chance that former members of the Imperium of Man are close to the Imperium of Man.

Tadashi wrote:

nomotog wrote:I don't think you can say exactly that. Tau are at least one octave nicer then everyone else and that's with there darker fluff. Some of there early stuff is crazy nice. Almost magical in how they work.

Then why is it that the Castes are forbidden from mating with one another? True, it's too keep them specialized, but it also ensures that only the Ethereals control the government. And while the Kroot are tolerated, Tau still consider them savages. Vespid language helmets reek of subliminal messaging and mental control. Is it just coincidence, or are the gue'vesa positioned deliberately in the Imperium's potential invasion lines? Face it, they may be 'equal', but in the Empire, Tau come first, and then the Ethereals are above even the Tau. I don't see any difference with the Eldar's and Mankind's belief in superiority and manifest destiny.

The fact that that topic even exists just shows how much nicer they are. Eldar have a we will kill as many as we want to save one of are own. They don't deal with the idea that humans could lead craft worlds. Humans aren't even allowed to live with them. The tau meanwhile risk there lives to save people they haven't even meet. Invite them to live with them and even help them It's really a world of difference between tau and everyone else.

Tadashi wrote:

nomotog wrote:I don't think you can say exactly that. Tau are at least one octave nicer then everyone else and that's with there darker fluff. Some of there early stuff is crazy nice. Almost magical in how they work.

Then why is it that the Castes are forbidden from mating with one another? True, it's too keep them specialized, but it also ensures that only the Ethereals control the government. And while the Kroot are tolerated, Tau still consider them savages. Vespid language helmets reek of subliminal messaging and mental control. Is it just coincidence, or are the gue'vesa positioned deliberately in the Imperium's potential invasion lines? Face it, they may be 'equal', but in the Empire, Tau come first, and then the Ethereals are above even the Tau. I don't see any difference with the Eldar's and Mankind's belief in superiority and manifest destiny.

Would you mate with a Neanderthal? No?

Same with the tau. For one thing, if a firewarrior tried to mate with an air caste pilot, the pilot would break in two

im2randomghgh wrote:Would you mate with a Neanderthal?

Necrophilia is usually frowned upon, you know.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kroothawk wrote:

Tadashi wrote:They're only free at first glance, otherwise, they're just as discriminatory as everyone else in 40k is.

Hmm... do I believe the designers of this race or you? Sorry, i rather believe that the designers know how they designed the race.

If you want to pay attention to how they designed the race, you should pay attention to how they designed the race.

You know, as racist apartheid bastards.

Melissia wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:Would you mate with a Neanderthal?

Necrophilia is usually frowned upon, you know.

I see what you did there.

If you want to pay attention to how they designed the race, you should pay attention to how they designed the race.

You know, as racist apartheid bastards

Really...no. You seem to not realize that vespid and kroot aren't slaves. Nor are demiurg, or nicassar, or Tarellian Dog-soldiers. Kroot are mercenaries, who help the Empire out of gratitude for saving their homeworld from orks. Nicassar are a protectorate of the Empire, as are the Tarellian dog soldiers. The demiurg are not part of the Empire, they are allies and trading partners. The Nicassar help the tau by scouting, in return for the tau using their "warp-drives" (I added quotation marks, no need to go into "Is tau warp travel ACTUALLY warp travel?") to satisfy their innate wanderlust (they like to travel as much as kender do).

They are not treated as slaves. They have their own planets within the tau Empire. They cannot lead the tau Empire. Why would they be able? That makes no sense.

im2randomghgh wrote:Really...no. You seem to not realize that vespid and kroot aren't slaves.

They are subordinate to the Tau with no chance of raising themselves to a better station in life. The system is designed as such that the Tau will always rule over everyone else. Even amongst the Tau, the system is racially biased towards the Ethereal. It is both racist and speciesist, and your attempts to tap-dance around this fact are amusing me.

And before you whine "tau-bashing", I don't hate the Tau, I just hate the wankery the Tau are neat, but they have the worst fans. Like starcraft in a sense, amusingly enough (except Tau are infinitely cooler than Starcraft ever was).

Everything is grimdark

Melissia wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:Really...no. You seem to not realize that vespid and kroot aren't slaves.

They are subordinate to the Tau with no chance of raising themselves to a better station in life. The system is designed as such that the Tau will always rule over everyone else. Even amongst the Tau, the system is racially biased towards the Ethereal. It is both racist and speciesist, and your attempts to tap-dance around this fact are amusing me.

And before you whine "tau-bashing", I don't hate the Tau, I just hate the wankery the Tau are neat, but they have the worst fans. Like starcraft in a sense, amusingly enough (except Tau are infinitely cooler than Starcraft ever was).

Did you read the rest of my post? The part where the others don't actually belong to the tau, they support them? That's like saying that since The U.S. and Britain fought together in WW2, that the U.S. is a part of Britain. It isn't, These are allies to the empire, but they are by no means a part of it.

The tau do not rule the other races. In hunter cadres they command them, true enough, but the rest aren't tau. The Ethereals don't rule them. The kroot are ruled by shapers and master shapers. The Vespid are ruled by strain-leaders and their female ruling caste. The Nicassar travel in families, completely decentralized. Little is known of the demiurg, but it seems likely they are larger than the entire Tau Empire.

im2randomghgh wrote:The part where the others don't actually belong to the tau

Oh that. I ignored that because it's wrong.

The Tau state join or die.

Joey wrote:Everything is grimdark

Best answer in this thread.

Melissia wrote:If you want to pay attention to how they designed the race, you should pay attention to how they designed the race.
You know, as racist apartheid bastards.

Taking into account, that you dream of a society where people may mate with other species and you don't give a damn about natural laws, official GW background and what other people actually posted, your posts start to make sense

im2randomghgh wrote:
The tau do not rule the other races. In hunter cadres they command them, true enough, but the rest aren't tau. The Ethereals don't rule them. The kroot are ruled by shapers and master shapers. The Vespid are ruled by strain-leaders and their female ruling caste. The Nicassar travel in families, completely decentralized. Little is known of the demiurg, but it seems likely they are larger than the entire Tau Empire.

They don't rule? The Ethereals don't rule? I suppose God-Ethereal Aun'va is the ruler, then? Just face it, the Tau are at the top of the Empire, 'equality' not withstanding, and the Ethereals are still on top, with no else allowed to rise above what the Ethereals decide is your position in life. Even the Imperium is meritocratic by comparison.

Tadashi wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
The tau do not rule the other races. In hunter cadres they command them, true enough, but the rest aren't tau. The Ethereals don't rule them. The kroot are ruled by shapers and master shapers. The Vespid are ruled by strain-leaders and their female ruling caste. The Nicassar travel in families, completely decentralized. Little is known of the demiurg, but it seems likely they are larger than the entire Tau Empire.

They don't rule? The Ethereals don't rule? I suppose God-Ethereal Aun'va is the ruler, then? Just face it, the Tau are at the top of the Empire, 'equality' not withstanding, and the Ethereals are still on top, with no else allowed to rise above what the Ethereals decide is your position in life. Even the Imperium is meritocratic by comparison.

Most races outside of Tau themselves don't even believe in the Greater Good, the Ethereal caste is meaningless to these races. Tau are described by their codex as being "First among Equals," they consider themselves equal to the races who join their empire, since they are the founders of the empire they have more control over it, having laid the groundwork themselves. The Imperium generally kills all xenos on sight, I don't see how that is any more meritocratic than a society who allows different species to join a rising empire whilst allowing them to maintain their individual sovereignty.

Squidmanlolz wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
The tau do not rule the other races. In hunter cadres they command them, true enough, but the rest aren't tau. The Ethereals don't rule them. The kroot are ruled by shapers and master shapers. The Vespid are ruled by strain-leaders and their female ruling caste. The Nicassar travel in families, completely decentralized. Little is known of the demiurg, but it seems likely they are larger than the entire Tau Empire.

They don't rule? The Ethereals don't rule? I suppose God-Ethereal Aun'va is the ruler, then? Just face it, the Tau are at the top of the Empire, 'equality' not withstanding, and the Ethereals are still on top, with no else allowed to rise above what the Ethereals decide is your position in life. Even the Imperium is meritocratic by comparison.

Most races outside of Tau themselves don't even believe in the Greater Good, the Ethereal caste is meaningless to these races. Tau are described by their codex as being "First among Equals," they consider themselves equal to the races who join their empire, since they are the founders of the empire they have more control over it, having laid the groundwork themselves. The Imperium generally kills all xenos on sight, I don't see how that is any more meritocratic than a society who allows different species to join a rising empire whilst allowing them to maintain their individual sovereignty.

Simply because skilled individuals or those who proved themselves can become more and even rise to become than they were in the Imperium that's why. That's what promotion is. To it's own people, the Imperium is meritocratic, since even a lowly bureaucrat can rise to become Master of the Administratum if he's ambitious and clever enough. Same with the Ecclesiarchy. The Mechanicus is similar enough, but Tech Priests have to smart enough too. The Imperial Military is the most meritocratic of the Imperial organizations. If you can prove yourself, you can become someone in the Imperium, whereas in the Tau Empire, no matter how excellent an administrator a Water Caste member cannot rise to a ruling position in the Tau Empire. Why? Because only the Ethereals can rule.

Kroothawk wrote:Taking into account, that you dream of a society where people may mate with other species

Stop lying about what I believe and actually bother to read for once in your life.

Melissia wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:The part where the others don't actually belong to the tau

Oh that. I ignored that because it's wrong.

The Tau state join or die.

Yep.
Examples include The Killing Ground, part of the Ultramarines series, and I believe a similar situation occurs in the Ciaphas Cain books, though I don't remember which.
The Tau are just as ruthless as the Imperium, when they want to be, and when it suits their goals.