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Urien_Rakarth wrote:

Jefffar wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Jefffar wrote:The Tau are good . . . or at least they think they are.

Talk about off-topic...

The guy asked about Good factions in the universe.

The Tau are one of the few who come close to that.

I disagree. It might just be my hate for the Tau, but I think that the Tau are truly no better than the IoM really, they just hide it under all that GM, Greater Good and Communist crap. I would have said good guys would be your average Eldar Civillian on a very minor Craftworld.

You mean Eldar, those aliens who slaughter entire star clusters to save individuals?

IoM is laughably evil. In fact, they are quite possibly the most evil faction in the whole setting.

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:
You mean Eldar, those aliens who slaughter entire star clusters to save individuals?

IoM is laughably evil. In fact, they are quite possibly the most evil faction in the whole setting.

But of course if the Humans slaughter aliens for no good reason it's fine cuz their humans, IMHO eldars are the best ones in WH40k (not much of a praise), of course I'm in no way biased.

jgehunter wrote:

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:
You mean Eldar, those aliens who slaughter entire star clusters to save individuals?

IoM is laughably evil. In fact, they are quite possibly the most evil faction in the whole setting.

But of course if the Humans slaughter aliens for no good reason it's fine cuz their humans, IMHO eldars are the best ones in WH40k (not much of a praise), of course I'm in no way biased.

Humans are evil too.

Shade of Grey.

IMHO the Hierarchy of good-evil is:

Tau
Eldar
Space Marines
Renegade Space Marines

Imperium of Man
Dark Eldar
Chaos
Chaos Space Marine

Inquisition

You may notice certain factions, like orks and Tyranids are not on it. That is because they are animals, and animals are neither good nor evil.

How are the Inquisition more evil than Dark Eldar, Chaos and CSM?
If anything the Inquisition are the shade of grey...
They choose the lesser of two evils.

purplefood wrote:How are the Inquisition more evil than Dark Eldar, Chaos and CSM?
If anything the Inquisition are the shade of grey...
They choose the lesser of two evils.

IMO at least the other ones know fully what they are doing, the Inquisition seems to have forgetter the purpose of what they do and has done worse things than what they are supposed to prevent.

jgehunter wrote:

purplefood wrote:How are the Inquisition more evil than Dark Eldar, Chaos and CSM?
If anything the Inquisition are the shade of grey...
They choose the lesser of two evils.

IMO at least the other ones know fully what they are doing, the Inquisition seems to have forgetter the purpose of what they do and has done worse things than what they are supposed to prevent.

I'm not gonna say the Inquisition hasn't done some bad things but overall they have helped greatly to prevent the fall of the IoM...

purplefood wrote:How are the Inquisition more evil than Dark Eldar, Chaos and CSM?
If anything the Inquisition are the shade of grey...
They choose the lesser of two evils.

They still choose to kill entire worlds of humans for bs reasons.

Choosing the lesser of two evils still makes you evil. No man left behind.

Dark Eldar do what they do because it is what they are forced to do by Slaanesh to keep their souls from eternal torment. And because it is what they, as a species, are naturally inclined to do.

Chaos, likewise, is elemental. The Blood God NEEDS blood. Slaanesh sees nothing wrong with eternal torture, it is simply not how her mind works, assigning human morality to non humans doesn't work so well.

The chaos space marines were lied to, plain and simple.

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

purplefood wrote:How are the Inquisition more evil than Dark Eldar, Chaos and CSM?
If anything the Inquisition are the shade of grey...
They choose the lesser of two evils.

They still choose to kill entire worlds of humans for bs reasons.

Choosing the lesser of two evils still makes you evil. No man left behind.

Dark Eldar do what they do because it is what they are forced to do by Slaanesh to keep their souls from eternal torment. And because it is what they, as a species, are naturally inclined to do.

Chaos, likewise, is elemental. The Blood God NEEDS blood. Slaanesh sees nothing wrong with eternal torture, it is simply not how her mind works, assigning human morality to non humans doesn't work so well.

The chaos space marines were lied to, plain and simple.

The CSM still do what they do...
Dark Eldar don't have to enjoy it so damn much.
The Chaos Gods do everything they do for power or entertainment.

The Inquisition does bad things for good reasons. Would you rather a single person die than a million?
I'm not saying the Inquisition aren't entirely good but they are sure as hell not as bad as DE, and Chaos and they sure as hell aren't worse...

Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the Exterminatus Weapon...

purplefood wrote:

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

purplefood wrote:How are the Inquisition more evil than Dark Eldar, Chaos and CSM?
If anything the Inquisition are the shade of grey...
They choose the lesser of two evils.

They still choose to kill entire worlds of humans for bs reasons.

Choosing the lesser of two evils still makes you evil. No man left behind.

Dark Eldar do what they do because it is what they are forced to do by Slaanesh to keep their souls from eternal torment. And because it is what they, as a species, are naturally inclined to do.

Chaos, likewise, is elemental. The Blood God NEEDS blood. Slaanesh sees nothing wrong with eternal torture, it is simply not how her mind works, assigning human morality to non humans doesn't work so well.

The chaos space marines were lied to, plain and simple.

The CSM still do what they do...
Dark Eldar don't have to enjoy it so damn much.
The Chaos Gods do everything they do for power or entertainment.

The Inquisition does bad things for good reasons. Would you rather a single person die than a million?
I'm not saying the Inquisition aren't entirely good but they are sure as hell not as bad as DE, and Chaos and they sure as hell aren't worse...

Protecting the human race means killing billions on a whim? Okay, THAT sounds logical. Why don't I protect my house by setting it on fire?

The CSM still believe the lie.
Enjoying it is what keeps the DE from having their souls eaten.
They kill for power and entertainment? Humans kill for meat and oil. Same difference. Power and attention is what feeds the gods.

On a whim?
Where has that ever happened?
It's not like they just up and say 'I don't like the way that planet is shaped'
Exterminatus is the last resort, we hear about it so much because it's very dramatic...

purplefood wrote:
The Chaos Gods do everything they do for power or entertainment.

I think I have to disagree here, the Chaos Gods were created by the emotions of the sentinent races and they are the products of the emotions that appear in the warp that are turned to the extreme in the warp, so the warp beings can't be composed of good emotions, so they can not act differently, they are simply made to act that way.

jgehunter wrote:

purplefood wrote:
The Chaos Gods do everything they do for power or entertainment.

I think I have to disagree here, the Chaos Gods were created by the emotions of the sentinent races and they are the products of the emotions that appear in the warp that are turned to the extreme in the warp, so the warp beings can't be composed of good emotions, so they can not act differently, they are simply made to act that way.

They are sentient beings formed of emotions though.
They can do whatever they like within their power.

purplefood wrote:On a whim?
Where has that ever happened?
It's not like they just up and say 'I don't like the way that planet is shaped'
Exterminatus is the last resort, we hear about it so much because it's very dramatic...

Savage Scars.

Read it.

The inquisitor exterminatus'd a tau planet that had no tau on it, and only had SM and IG, who had just purged it.

purplefood wrote:

jgehunter wrote:

purplefood wrote:
The Chaos Gods do everything they do for power or entertainment.

I think I have to disagree here, the Chaos Gods were created by the emotions of the sentinent races and they are the products of the emotions that appear in the warp that are turned to the extreme in the warp, so the warp beings can't be composed of good emotions, so they can not act differently, they are simply made to act that way.

They are sentient beings formed of emotions though.
They can do whatever they like within their power.

They are sentiment beings formed from extreme emotions which is all they know and I would argue that to them what they do is perfectly normal and acceptable because it's the only thing they do.

jgehunter wrote:IMO at least the other ones know fully what they are doing, the Inquisition seems to have forgetter the purpose of what they do and has done worse things than what they are supposed to prevent.

That's a misconception brought on by really horrible black library writers. In truth, one could even offer the Inquisition as the true good guys; after all, they struggle their entire lives with an impossibly heavy burden upon their souls and minds, knowing that the weight of untold trillions of souls is on their shoulder. If they are not ruthless, if they do not do their very best, put forth every last effort to stave off the encroachment of the threats from within, without, and beyond, millions, if not billions of souls will perish or worse, be tainted by chaos or the xeno. But if they do their jobs right, and they try their damndest to do just this, those masses get a chance, however small, of living in contentedness or even happiness, ignorant of the mind-shattering threats facing their minds, bodies, and souls every day.

It is because of the Inquisition's eternal struggles against the soul-shattering enemies of Humankind that the average person has a chance of being able to live a happy life in 40k. They don't always succeed, of course, and sometimes they make decisions which do less than help, but by the Emperor they certainly are putting everything on the line for the sake of their duties. Even their own souls.

You can choose to interpret the Inquisition as always evil, but it isn't necessarily the right interpretation, and it certainly isn't the only one.

Melissia wrote:

jgehunter wrote:IMO at least the other ones know fully what they are doing, the Inquisition seems to have forgetter the purpose of what they do and has done worse things than what they are supposed to prevent.

That's a misconception brought on by really horrible black library writers. In truth, one could even offer the Inquisition as the true good guys; after all, they struggle their entire lives with an impossibly heavy burden upon their souls and minds, knowing that the weight of untold trillions of souls is on their shoulder. If they are not ruthless, if they do not do their very best, put forth every last effort to stave off the encroachment of the threats from within, without, and beyond, millions, if not billions of souls will perish or worse, be tainted by chaos or the xeno. But if they do their jobs right, and they try their damndest to do just this, those masses get a chance, however small, of living in contentedness or even happiness, ignorant of the mind-shattering threats facing their minds, bodies, and souls every day.

It is because of the Inquisition's eternal struggles against the soul-shattering enemies of Humankind that the average person has a chance of being able to live a happy life in 40k. They don't always succeed, of course, and sometimes they make decisions which do less than help, but by the Emperor they certainly are putting everything on the line for the sake of their duties. Even their own souls.

You can choose to interpret the Inquisition as always evil, but it isn't necessarily the right interpretation, and it certainly isn't the only one.

All you have said Is acceptable I guess, but the part I colored, apparently if they kill aliens to save their own race they aren't good, like what Eldars do.

I don't argue anything is necessarily inherently good in 40k, just saying its' a matter of perspective.

So really, we should replace "good guys" with "biggest humanists"?

Night Lords are the only humanist of warhammer, not the tau, and not the space wolves jingeling bones and wholing at the moon and thinking that their librarians get their power from spirits and not the warp. But the Wolves are good doggies of the Emporer, except when they bite strangers or crap inside.

Death comes in degrees in the 40k universe. One could easily say that the standard SM Chapter, or better yet, the Inquisition, are complete fanatics by real life standards, but when you think of what the Imperium would be without them (I.E. Overrun by Chaos, eaten by Tyranids, or slaughtered by Orks) the occasional Exterminatus is an easy price to pay.

ZSO SAHALL wrote:Night Lords are the only humanist of warhammer, not the tau, and not the space wolves jingeling bones and wholing at the moon and thinking that their librarians get their power from spirits and not the warp. But the Wolves are good doggies of the Emporer, except when they bite strangers or crap inside.

Not sure if serious or just trolling...

I will assume that you are serious so:

Night Lords? Are you sure you are not confusing them with another chapter say Salamanders? Ultramarines? Any other chapter at all?

The Night Lords are the guys that have symbols of "fear" adorned on their armor. Skulls, lightning, look like bats. They are the guys that slaughtered their Home Planet ,(like other Chaos Legions i.e. Iron Warriors) they specialize in psychological warfare. So they perform war atrocities for breakfast.

Anyway on topic now:

So the Eldar are considered evil from the human point of view. I could not agree more. But are they considered evil from the Eldar point of view? I think not. Every action is justified from the race/person doing it.
i.e. I can steal an apple. This is perceived as wrong by the society, the law and the shopkeeper. But if my brother is dying of hunger and I give him the apple, does he consider me as an evil-doer? (I know this a really simplified example but i think you guyz and gals get what I mean ) Good and Evil, Right and Wrong,Yin and Yang, Black and White. These are all perspectives of actions from different observers. As such it is relative.

Can we ask which race is the most humanitarian? Well obviously those are the humans (as mentioned from the above posters, Eldar do not care, DE do not care, Orks do not care, Nids nomnom, Chaos do not care, CSM still dont care, Tau care if they can get them in their empire otherwise not really). Which chapter? Which organization?

Bobakos wrote:Can we ask which race is the most humanitarian? [...] Which chapter? Which organization?

The Tyranids.

Jokes aside, the answer would be The Orders of the Sisters Hospitaller of the Adepta Sororitas.

Humanism refers to belief in humanity and lack of religion and superstition, not niceness.

Melissia wrote:
Jokes aside, the answer would be The Orders of the Sisters Hospitaller of the Adepta Sororitas.

Agreed. Unless you're a heretic, and then they murder you.

ZSO SAHALL wrote:Humanism refers to belief in humanity and lack of religion and superstition, not niceness.

Humanism wasn't what was asked.

Yes it was, but it doesn't matter.

ZSO SAHALL wrote:Night Lords are the only humanist of warhammer, not the tau, and not the space wolves jingeling bones and wholing at the moon and thinking that their librarians get their power from spirits and not the warp. But the Wolves are good doggies of the Emporer, except when they bite strangers or crap inside.

Night Lords are NOT humanitarians. They slaughter innumerable humans and leave the rest living in terror. That is no life at all. Respect, honour and honesty should be your reasons for obeying the law, not fear.

Humanitarians and humanists are two different things. I can see Night Lords being labeled humanist.

Omegus wrote:Yes it was, but it doesn't matter.

Wrong.

Bobakos wrote:Can we ask which race is the most humanitarian?