Adeptus Mechanicus for 40k new pics p162

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**ClockworkZion**

Harry wrote:
pretre wrote:
Just to make sure we are level set. Hastings does have a pretty good record, especially since he predicts far out and has worked over a long time:

75hastings69 - Total rumors: (79 TRUE) / (16 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

Harry is also pretty good:
Harry from Warseer - Total rumors: (39 TRUE) / (7 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

Lords of Wargaming hasn't been around as long, but has a very good record:
Lords of Wargaming - Total rumors: (21 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (1 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

But But .... you missed most of the stuff I got right : ... and two of my false rumours are the same rumour about Bloodbowl coming ...and no less than seven of hastings are about Bloodbowl you have each team as a false rumour .... even though he got all 4 teams right.!!!
Bloodbowl was done ..... it is not our fault that Dreadfleet tanked so badly .... it was shelved.
I could do this rumour by rumour but ....
My point is your rumour record does not take into account what was accurate at the time of posting...and sometimes we have posted months or even years ahead with something like this.

Yeah, the tracker is an imperfect system and has been argued with before.

**Eldarain**

pretre wrote:
Wonderwolf wrote:
the idea of a "false" rumour ceases to exist unless there is a public release by GW of all things they didn't release that we could cross reference with genuine rumours.

This would be hilarious. GW doesn't tell us what they are releasing, but does tell us what they are not releasing.

I could see a pissy one liner in a preamble about the unwashed masses not getting what they thought they wanted.

**Wonderwolf**

ClockworkZion wrote:

Yeah, the tracker is an imperfect system and has been argued with before.

How would a perfect system - given GW's current policy of publicity - differentiate between a "false rumour" that is simply made-up nonsense and a "false rumour" that was true, until they cancelled the product last-minute .. say .. because the moulds proved problematic and the whole thing had to be written off?

**Mr Morden**

Ohh Admech is something that very very much I would have to buy - even thought its likely to be more expensive than Forge World

Genestealer Cult is equally awesome

Throw in new Sisters and thats aot of money being spent by me !!

**ClockworkZion**

pretre wrote:
Wonderwolf wrote:
the idea of a "false" rumour ceases to exist unless there is a public release by GW of all things they didn't release that we could cross reference with genuine rumours.

This would be hilarious. GW doesn't tell us what they are releasing, but does tell us what they are not releasing.

Which could be used to prove what they are releasing.

**pretre**

My response to the continued discussion about rumor tracking is here, where it will be on topic.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/870/448304.page#7601401

**ClockworkZion**

Wonderwolf wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:

Yeah, the tracker is an imperfect system and has been argued with before.

How would a perfect system - given GW's current policy of publicity - differentiate between a "false rumour" that is simply made-up nonsense and a "false rumour" that was true, until they cancelled the product last-minute .. say .. because the moulds proved problematic and the whole thing had to be written off?

The system isn't perfect and can't be perfect. The point was that the complaint that it sometimes doesn't get things right has been raised before.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

pretre wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Yeah, the tracker is an imperfect system and has been argued with before.

Of course, it is imperfect. That being said, some arguments for reform are unrealistic. Any that rely on us knowing the hearts and minds of GW or rumor mongers are obviously on that side of the fence.

At this point, the methodology is about as good as we're going to get. It only requires us to know two real questions about any rumor monger:
Did they say something?
Did it come true?

That's much simpler and easier to prove than:
Did they say something?
What were the facts at GW regarding this rumor at the time?
Did those facts change at GW and invalidate the rumor?
Did other, non-GW events that are non-public cause the rumor to change?
Is the anonymous source of the person who is mongering the same?
Are they telling the truth about that or are they just trying to get a new start on the tracker?
Did the monger misinterpret their source's information?
Did the rumor end up true?

edit: I get it. Really, I do. No one likes to see their name with a bunch of FALSEs next to it. No one likes their word questioned when it was no fault of their own. The tracker isn't saying mongers are bad people for getting falses though. It is just telling everyone else what that person's history is. People can make their own decisions about what that means.

You don't accept retractions or corrections to rumors though either, just the initial statement, which may make some people balk.

Also despite your intent being that, it's not what ends up happening and you know it. Heck you've tried doing it to me before too.

**pretre**

I will again respond to this in the appropriate thread.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/870/448304.page#7601401

**cincydooley**

Accolade wrote:

Really infuriated hearing that BB was halted due to the terrible sales of Dreadfleet- a child could have figured out that game wouldn't be all that popular. So for GW to have stopped BB because the production of a game that nobody wanted resulted in a huge flop....well, I guess they can add this feather to their "we don't do market research!" cap.

Hah, that's sorta funny.

I wrote an Opinion Piece about that right when Dreadfleet came out in 2011

**Harry**

pretre wrote:

Please do it rumor by rumor in my thread if you disagree with anything I tracked. We can't take into account your reasons or the background behind each rumor because those are impossible to prove. All we can do is track what the rumor was and whether it came true.

I wouldn't dream of it. It is a perfectly resonable system ... if you feel one is needed.
I couldn't give less of a hoot what my rumour record says ...I was just playing with you. I make no claim to being 100% correct. I am very often guessing based on less than complete information. I make no excuses for the times I get it wrong (apologies , Yes,... excuses, No)..... The fact that my record is as good as it is a mystery to me.

**pretre**

Thanks.

More here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/870/448304.page#7601401

**Lockark**

I thought I was excited to hear Ad-Mec in 40k (and possibly Dark Mec?) from hastings. But 30k skirmish game?!?!?!?! That just sounds too good to be true!

O.O

Even thow it's hastings it just sounds to good to be true, I'm scared to get to hype untill we start seeing pics.
D=

**drbored**

What will be really interesting is to see how GW differentiates their admech from FW's admech. Not just in fluff or anything, but as an artist, I'm VERY interested to see what the aesthetic differences will be!

**Kosake**

Accolade wrote:
That stand-alone assassins game can't be the Inquisitor skirmish game that was rumored a year or two back, could it?

Really infuriated hearing that BB was halted due to the terrible sales of Dreadfleet- a child could have figured out that game wouldn't be all that popular. So for GW to have stopped BB because the production of a game that nobody wanted resulted in a huge flop....well, I guess they can add this feather to their "we don't do market research!" cap.

Would that be this one then:

Spoiler:

**Azreal13**

drbored wrote:
What will be really interesting is to see how GW differentiates their admech from FW's admech. Not just in fluff or anything, but as an artist, I'm VERY interested to see what the aesthetic differences will be!

Well, looking back on the history of when FW and GW ranges have overlapped, I'm guessing the FW stuff will be awesome, with crisp detail, taking influences from old established fluff and new ideas, and will also retain a solid, logical design, despite depicting some outlandish concepts, and the GW stuff will eschew crisp detail for simply filling every available flat space with iconography, will look dangerously close to children's toys, and will make no internal sense, regardless of the fact they're depicting a levitating mecha octopus. But will glue together more easily.

**MrFlutterPie**

Azreal13 wrote:
drbored wrote:
What will be really interesting is to see how GW differentiates their admech from FW's admech. Not just in fluff or anything, but as an artist, I'm VERY interested to see what the aesthetic differences will be!

Well, looking back on the history of when FW and GW ranges have overlapped, I'm guessing the FW stuff will be awesome, with crisp detail, taking influences from old established fluff and new ideas, and will also retain a solid, logical design, despite depicting some outlandish concepts, and the GW stuff will eschew crisp detail for simply filling every available flat space with iconography, will look dangerously close to children's toys, and will make no internal sense, regardless of the fact they're depicting a levitating mecha octopus. But will glue together more easily.

I know you are being silly but......WANT!

**Azreal13**

To Kickstarter!

**H.B.M.C.**

Azreal13 wrote:
Well, looking back on the history of when FW and GW ranges have overlapped, I'm guessing the FW stuff will be awesome, with crisp detail, taking influences from old established fluff and new ideas, and will also retain a solid, logical design, despite depicting some outlandish concepts, and the GW stuff will eschew crisp detail for simply filling every available flat space with iconography, will look dangerously close to children's toys, and will make no internal sense, regardless of the fact they're depicting a levitating mecha octopus. But will glue together more easily.

Pretty much. FW will retain the look and essence of the Mechanicum, whereas GW will go all out with exaggerated detail and oversized weapons that will look good but not as good as it could have done if they'd just calmed down. And they'll be 1000x easier to put together than FW stuff.

**agnosto**

Harry wrote:
pretre wrote:

Please do it rumor by rumor in my thread if you disagree with anything I tracked. We can't take into account your reasons or the background behind each rumor because those are impossible to prove. All we can do is track what the rumor was and whether it came true.
I wouldn't dream of it. It is a perfectly resonable system ... if you feel one is needed.
I couldn't give less of a hoot what my rumour record says ...I was just playing with you. I make no claim to being 100% correct. I am very often guessing based on less than complete information. I make no excuses for the times I get it wrong (apologies , Yes,... excuses, No)..... The fact that my record is as good as it is a mystery to me.

Harry, since you're here. Please tell me that my precious Ogres aren't going to get....well, squatted by this bubblehammer thing.

**H.B.M.C.**

I hate the idea that Blood Bowl was shelved because of Dreadfleet. Only GW could think that the failure of their long-winded, clunky and unwanted game of sailing ships could have any affect on the rerelease of a beloved fantasy football game.

If they did any market research, which at this point has to include simply noticing what other companies are doing - nothing formal - they would have seen Dreadball and how well it's done. That alone should tell them there's a market for BB.

**Azreal13**

It almost feels like it was a punishment.

"Oh, right, you little fethers, didn't buy Dreadfleet eh? Well, see this? This is going back on the shelf until you start unquestioningly giving us all your money like a good little disciple."

**Paradigm**

H.B.M.C. wrote:

If they did any market research, which at this point has to include simply noticing what other companies are doing - nothing formal - they would have seen Dreadball and how well it's done. That alone should tell them there's a market for BB.

That would require acknowleging the idea that 'other companies' might exist... Which would then lead to denial, C&Ds and a court case in which GW will claim it invented football, dice, and any variation thereupon...

On topic, I do like the sound of an Admech release. Hopefully the Harlequin codex and models have gone down well enough that GW realises that more focused, interesting and 'new' releases are better for both them and us than repeating the same every-few-yearly codex cycle.

**H.B.M.C.**

Azreal13 wrote:
It almost feels like it was a punishment.

"Oh, right, you little fethers, didn't buy Dreadfleet eh? Well, see this? This is going back on the shelf until you start unquestioningly giving us all your money like a good little disciple."

Wouldn't be the first time GW held Blood Bowl hostage.

**aka_mythos**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Azreal13 wrote:
Well, looking back on the history of when FW and GW ranges have overlapped, I'm guessing the FW stuff will be awesome, with crisp detail, taking influences from old established fluff and new ideas, and will also retain a solid, logical design, despite depicting some outlandish concepts, and the GW stuff will eschew crisp detail for simply filling every available flat space with iconography, will look dangerously close to children's toys, and will make no internal sense, regardless of the fact they're depicting a levitating mecha octopus. But will glue together more easily.

Pretty much. FW will retain the look and essence of the Mechanicum, whereas GW will go all out with exaggerated detail and oversized weapons that will look good but not as good as it could have done if they'd just calmed down. And they'll be 1000x easier to put together than FW stuff.

I can accept different levels of detail quality but for me the main thing that matters is that I hope models from both FW and GW can exist in the same army and look like they belong together; that is they need to have a certain degree of cohesion.

**Dryaktylus**

H.B.M.C. wrote:I hate the idea that Blood Bowl was shelved because of Dreadfleet. Only GW could think that the failure of their long-winded, clunky and unwanted game of sailing ships could have any affect on the rerelease of a beloved fantasy football game.

If they did any market research, which at this point has to include simply noticing what other companies are doing - nothing formal - they would have seen Dreadball and how well it's done. That alone should tell them there's a market for BB.

Stopping BB because of DF is dumb, of course. But releasing BB just as a stand-alone game without regulary model support isn't what I call smart either - the market is full of 3rd party miniatures.

aka_mythos wrote:I can accept different levels of detail quality but for me the main thing that matters is that I hope models from both FW and GW can exist in the same army and look like they belong together; that is they need to have a certain degree of cohesion.

Well, I have nearly all 28mm miniatures GW ever released for Adeptus Mechanicus. Some look dated in comparison to newer models, some weird (especially the female servitor), but they fit somehow (red clothes/robes if nothing else helps...). But while the Titan Tech-priest from FW is a copy from an old Jes Goodwin artwork the Thallax look just outlandish and the tanks... special. So if GW takes a more conservative route with their models design-wise its hard to achieve a uniformity. But hat's not bad per se.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

but lack of real support would not matter to much to GW as a significant chunk of their target audience would have the box bought for them, play with it a few times, get bored and give up

the (to their mind) issue is a BB box sells only that before the kid gets bored,

If instead it's not available the kid instead picks up 40K or occasionally WFB which makes them more money before he gives up

both options may also create a long term fan and buyer but that's not really who they are targeting

**Tannhauser42**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I hate the idea that Blood Bowl was shelved because of Dreadfleet. Only GW could think that the failure of their long-winded, clunky and unwanted game of sailing ships could have any affect on the rerelease of a beloved fantasy football game.

Yeah, it's like if Disney decided to cancel Avengers 2 if Ant Man tanks. Hell, the 25th anniversary of Blood Bowl came and went without even a peep out of GW.

**ProtoClone**

Interesting.

I could see them getting many uses out of this if they open it up for them to be allies of Imperial/Chaos forces, hell maybe even Necrons!

I have always been interested in Admech and their background. The fact they have remained so withdrawn/distant from all of the grimdarknesswar had me even more curious about them. I wonder if they have their own agenda and that's why they are starting to become more active?

**gorgon**

aka_mythos wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Azreal13 wrote:
Well, looking back on the history of when FW and GW ranges have overlapped, I'm guessing the FW stuff will be awesome, with crisp detail, taking influences from old established fluff and new ideas, and will also retain a solid, logical design, despite depicting some outlandish concepts, and the GW stuff will eschew crisp detail for simply filling every available flat space with iconography, will look dangerously close to children's toys, and will make no internal sense, regardless of the fact they're depicting a levitating mecha octopus. But will glue together more easily.

Pretty much. FW will retain the look and essence of the Mechanicum, whereas GW will go all out with exaggerated detail and oversized weapons that will look good but not as good as it could have done if they'd just calmed down. And they'll be 1000x easier to put together than FW stuff.

I can accept different levels of detail quality but for me the main thing that matters is that I hope models from both FW and GW can exist in the same army and look like they belong together; that is they need to have a certain degree of cohesion.

That'll be interesting. The FW armor is a little smaller and more delicately featured than the GW plastics (you can see this in the hands especially IMO). If the new kit is compatible with the Mk.7 plastics, it'll almost certainly be a little bigger and bulkier than the FW minis.

It's a potential dilemma for me since I'm about halfway through collecting the infantry I need for my HH army. But we'll see how it sorts out. If the plastics aren't straight-up Mk.4, I'll stick with the FW version anyway.

This isn't really a complaint, BTW. Exciting times seem to be ahead.

**Dryaktylus**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
but lack of real support would not matter to much to GW as a significant chunk of their target audience would have the box bought for them, play with it a few times, get bored and give up

the (to their mind) issue is a BB box sells only that before the kid gets bored,

If instead it's not available the kid instead picks up 40K or occasionally WFB which makes them more money before he gives up

both options may also create a long term fan and buyer but that's not really who they are targeting

Not sure. 40k/WHFB and BB are quite different and may not attract the same people. I never had interest in playing BB (not just because the miniatures from the 90's were extremely ugly - I would have used those from the late 80's) and was not alone. On the other hand there're BB enthusiasts who don't play other GW games (anymore). To rely on 'kids' to buy a stand-alone game failed with Dreadfleet.

For me only two scenarios are likely. 1) The game sucks and haunts the shelves for a long time. Maybe some people buy it if the models are pretty. 2) It's really good. People buy it and give GW some instant money. That's the end of the GW part. Because lacking support, those who play the game - starting leagues and communities - now have a shiny rulebook and a nice cardboard field. And start buying non-GW models, writing own rules for more teams and so on. All without GW (maybe they get money for some Fantasy miniatures players use for conversions).