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SaganGree wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

SaganGree wrote:
Why couldn't you have an Evasion save? Something unique to Eldar and other highly twitchy gitz... I'm thinking a 5+ (adjustable) that you would roll before the wound roll happens...

I could see that representing the agility of the race, leave open the rule for other factions, like maybe assassins, and increase their durability without having to adjust the stats

That is statistically indistinguishable from an invuln save (except if you're saying you could take it IN ADDITION TO an invuln save or any normal save).

That is exactly what I am suggesting... given the fact that the save would be taken before the wound roll is made. And given that there are more dice to save against hits, while similar to an invul, it wouldn't be as efficient because the attacker can use strats, rerolls, etc more effectively as the defense would already have been rolled. It's actually more similar to a preemptive FNP

Or you could just bump the game to be based on a D8 or D10 and give non-Wraith Infantry a natural -1 to hit, which is a lot easier.

Or you could stop the endless stat-inflation power creep that makes T3/1W a pointless statline.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Or you could stop the endless stat-inflation power creep that makes T3/1W a pointless statline.

There's nothing wrong with a little more granularity in statlines, but then again I've been promoting W2 Orks at base for a while so there ya go.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

SaganGree wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

SaganGree wrote:
Why couldn't you have an Evasion save? Something unique to Eldar and other highly twitchy gitz... I'm thinking a 5+ (adjustable) that you would roll before the wound roll happens...

I could see that representing the agility of the race, leave open the rule for other factions, like maybe assassins, and increase their durability without having to adjust the stats

That is statistically indistinguishable from an invuln save (except if you're saying you could take it IN ADDITION TO an invuln save or any normal save).

That is exactly what I am suggesting... given the fact that the save would be taken before the wound roll is made. And given that there are more dice to save against hits, while similar to an invul, it wouldn't be as efficient because the attacker can use strats, rerolls, etc more effectively as the defense would already have been rolled. It's actually more similar to a preemptive FNP

Or you could just bump the game to be based on a D8 or D10 and give non-Wraith Infantry a natural -1 to hit, which is a lot easier.

Is it though? SaganGree's suggestion is basically just:
* Roll a d6 after you fail a save. On an X+, you save against the attack after all.

Your suggestion is...
* Replace everyone's d6 collection with a presumably similarly-sized d8 or d10 collection.
* Presumably rewrite the rules/chart for determining what number needs to be rolled to wound a target.
* Change a bunch of statlines and special rules to account for the change in die size.
* Give non-wraith infantry a -1 to hit special rule.

I feel like the Evasion Save approach is actually quite a bit easier to implement.

Also, does increasing the granularity of our random number generation rocks really help with the issue at hand? Like, say you expanded the die size to d12s so you have twice as many faces that players can potentially roll. A 3 on a d12 is sort of like rolling a 1.5 on a d6. Rolling a 4 is like rolling a 2. Rolling a 5 is like rolling a 2.5. Etc. Is making it possible for eldar to have a -1.5 to hit modifier instead of a -2 really a fix for the durability and speed issues being discussed? Like, is giving IG a -1 to hit too little, a -2 too much, but a -1.5 would be the perfect to-hit penalty if only our dice could roll a 1.5?

Or maybe the added granularity isn't used to bring back bigger to-hit penalties. Maybe we just give the eldar slightly better WS and BS than marines and armor that lies somewhere between a scion and power armor. Is that going to make eldar feel sufficiently fluffy, durable, and fast?

I am open to having my mind changed, but I don't see how it would address the issues at hand.

From my understanding the design paradigm has fundamentally shifted to much higher volumes of fire from basic units, so low toughness and low armour armies are always going to get hosed. Even medium toughness armies like Orks get shredded.

This adds to the fact that Eldar have always been fast and short ranged, meaning they need to be within the threat range of the enemy before they can attack, but they are also very fragile to any counter attack.

Dark Eldar used to have the ability to attack at night, and there were night fighting rules that effectively limited the range of the enemy shooting in response. It was a bit janky in practice and I remember that it was not used very often, but it is potentially an interesting avenue to explore - eldar could limit the range of enemy shooting perhaps. Though that would really, really mess up Tau as a side effect.