Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Battlescribe is updated and awaiting appspot to pick up the release.

Anyone who makes an issue about the new beta rules being missing will get godstruck into the sun.

in other news, the Caladius with arachnus looks like a very interesting way to put reliable hurt on heavy vehicles, wounding on 3+ rerollable most of the time.

Also minimum brigade is now 2403 (3 SC, 6 CG, 3 pallas, 3 sagittarum)

 WindstormSCR wrote:
Battlescribe is updated and awaiting appspot to pick up the release.

Anyone who makes an issue about the new beta rules being missing will get godstruck into the sun.

in other news, the Caladius with arachnus looks like a very interesting way to put reliable hurt on heavy vehicles, wounding on 3+ rerollable most of the time.

Also minimum brigade is now 2403 (3 SC, 6 CG, 3 pallas, 3 sagittarum)

THANK YOU!

Man the telemon with two fists is a beast in combat he would deal 11,5 wounds to a knight.

but the Aquilon are even better they would do 13,3 wounds

If Trajann is around they would do 18,1 wounds

and Trajann himself wound do 5,5 so 23,6 wounds

Thats one dead knight.

Tigers and Lions and Bears.....OH MY!

This recent announcement about the Custodes just made my 40K league collectively bury their heads in the sand....Lol...

Exciting news indeed!

I hate to judge a unit on paper, but the Galatus looks really bad. Like, what do you even throw it at? 4 attacks and str 7 isn't getting past a character's standard T4/5 3++/4++, it can't threaten knights/T8 vehicles because Str 7, it has no shooting worth mentioning, and it costs more than the Achillus which can do all of those things and do mortal wounds on the charge. Can't deal with elite infantry units because 4 attacks will take forever to mulch even a squad of intercessors, much less something like a Deathwatch kill team.

It's not so much more durable than the Aquillus that it has to be gutted of offensive potential but to also give up ranged damage almost entirely all while costing 15 more points than a stock Achillus.

Am I the only one excited about the Pallas? At 100 points a piece filling out an outrider detachment has never been cheaper, plus wounding most vehicles on 4s with rerolls isn't bad.

Hmm I know allot of people like the Heavy Dread but for me the Grav-tank seems to be a steal of a deal at 210 points. Its got great mobility, a 5+ invul, and 14 shots at 2+ BS makes it look pretty solid to me. (Though I do get the Telemon has better survivabilitity with +1 T and +1 Invul.)

Braneric wrote:
Am I the only one excited about the Pallas? At 100 points a piece filling out an outrider detachment has never been cheaper, plus wounding most vehicles on 4s with rerolls isn't bad.

Hm i have one and i like it. but for a anti tank option i like the caladius grav tank better. BC almost double the range and double the dmg. Plus the Twin Lastrum bolt cannon. if you have 2 pallas and your opponent deals 8 dmg you lose one. If the caladuis takes 8 dmg it only loses a bit of mobility and dmg.

What are your thoughts on the Orion? Super tempted to include one alongside Telemons as it can provide a mid-table speed bump that'll put some hurt down on hordes as well as tanks.

I really like the Venatari and while I don't think they're bad units at all, they do seem a bit lacking compared to Vertus Praetors (then again, what unit doesn't?). Their battlefield role is a little confusing too, are they meant to be fast ranged elite infantry killers? If so, many other Custodes units already have weapons that fulfill that role from the simple Guardian Spear to Adrathic Destructors and Illiastus Accelerator Culverins. Even Hurricane Bolters from Vertus Praetors (a currently more efficient unit the Venatari are compared to) can put down enough shots to take out elite infantry. The 3+ save does them little favors as well. I ended up sending some suggestions to the rules team proposing that they change the Buckler grant a simple +1 armor save so that the Bucklers actually feel like they add to the Venatari's durability while also fulfilling the the intent of the original Tarsus Buckler rule. Also sent a suggestion for a second profile to their guns to make them better infantry killers, something along the lines of:

Kinetic Destroyer 18" Pistol 2 S5 AP-1 D1 Make 2 hit rolls for each attack made by this weapon instead of 1.

Venatari Lance (shooting) 12" Assault 2 S5 AP-1 D1 Make 2 hit rolls for each attack made by this weapon instead of 1.

Also giving them 4 attacks instead of 3 to reflect their status as veterans much like the Terminators and Jetbikes. Granted I'm still probably gonna pick some up along with Firepike Aquilons and maybe we're all wrong and they perform better on the table than we gave them credit for. Either way, at the very least I hope they'll listen to some of the criticism!

Wouldn't Pistol 4 or Assault 4 be the exact same as Pistol/Assault 2 with 2 hit rolls?

It would, I just wanted it to be a bit fluffier, like maybe the second profile is explosive rounds of some kind with the rounds themselves are generating more hits, not because they're firing the gun more. Same difference really.

I picked up Venatari so I can run a 1000 pt Outrider detachment with 1 Shield Captain on Dawneagle, 2x 3 Vertus Praetors, and 1x 4 Venatari with some Miseracordias thrown throughout.

Given the current rules, how is everyone going to run their Venatari? Leaning towards the Pistols and Buckler myself to try and kite them along while stealing objectives. The jetbikes are way juicier targets so I fully expect them to take most of the attention away from them while the Venatari play the objective/troop harassment game.

As a side note, the Caladius Grav Tank taking ~100 point drop while also getting more durable is huge. And with the Accelerator Culverin nerf on the Telemon, guess I'm using the Accelerator Cannons on the Caladius and the Arachnus Storm Cannon on the Telemon. Great coverage for both anti-vehicle and anti-infantry.

After digging in some more, I’m starting to really like sagittarum with misericordias. they’re faster than CG, since the weapons are assault. They throw out a ton of shots at higher strength, more attacks in CC and as icing on the cake can really mess something up when they get close enough, all for about the same cost as shield CG. As an added bonus they pair very nicely in a spearhead with a telemon or Caladius support!

Came up with a new 2k list which would like some feedback on before I buy anything:

Custodes Battation +5 CP

HQ
Shield Captain - 112pts
- Guardian Spear

Jetbike Captain - 160pts

Troops
3x Custodes - 161pts
- 2x Guardian Spears
- 1x Sentinel Blade/Storm Shield

3x Custodes - 161pts
- 2x Guardian Spears
- 1x Sentinel Blade/Storm Shield

3x Custodes - 161pts
- 2x Guardian Spears
- 1x Sentinel Blade/Storm Shield

Elites
Contemptor-Achillus - 140pts
- 2x Lastrum Bolters

Heavy Support
3x Sagittarum Custodes - 165pts

Telemon Dreadnought - 272pts
- 2x Arachnus Storm Cannons

Custodes Outrider Detachment +1CP

HQ
Jetbike Captain - 160pts

Fast Attack
Pallas Grav-Attack - 100pts

Pallas Grav-Attack - 100pts

3x Vertus Praetors - 270pts

Total - 1962pts - 9CP


Thanks

Seems fine, honestly. Make sure you put Misericordia on the sagittarum.

Proxied this 1k doubles list yesterday:
Valoris 185
3 saggitarium with miser 177
3 saggitarium with miser 177
3 saggitarium with miser 177
Telemon with arachnus 272
988

The saggitarium are just amazing. With Valoris, they advance and then shoot, hit on 3s wound on 3s reroll 1s on both. So reliable at killing infantry, they're quick because of being able to advance, and when they get close unload some superpowerd shooting, and get 4 power axe attacks each. Maybe not too competitive, there are better options eg troops normal guard but they are very fun and good at filling out the spearhead.

The dreadnought, whose model I do have, is beautiful on the table, and its new guns and points make it just fantastic. Reliably killing vehicles, reliably killing heavier infantry too. Overjoyed at the update for it.

That is a nice list with the saggitarium, but unless I'm wrong you don't want them anywhere near combat as it's only 3 base attacks at S5 no ap,and the misericordia allows one additional attack at -2ap.

One additional attack, but since it's a weapon you can just opt to take all of the then 4 attacks using the Dagger.

Oohhh never thought to use it that way, then the saggitarium guard just became a lot more tastier to advance up the board, cheers for that.

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
Proxied this 1k doubles list yesterday:
Valoris 185
3 saggitarium with miser 177
3 saggitarium with miser 177
3 saggitarium with miser 177
Telemon with arachnus 272
988

The saggitarium are just amazing. With Valoris, they advance and then shoot, hit on 3s wound on 3s reroll 1s on both. So reliable at killing infantry, they're quick because of being able to advance, and when they get close unload some superpowerd shooting, and get 4 power axe attacks each. Maybe not too competitive, there are better options eg troops normal guard but they are very fun and good at filling out the spearhead.

The dreadnought, whose model I do have, is beautiful on the table, and its new guns and points make it just fantastic. Reliably killing vehicles, reliably killing heavier infantry too. Overjoyed at the update for it.

Matched play rules will only let you have two units of Sagittarum at 1000 pts. The two lists I’ve been messing around with have a unit of 5 and 4 with Trajann, or two units of 5 with a Bike Captain.

I was initially most excited about the bikes actually, until I really started looking at their weapons. One of the main strengths of my original “all bikes” list was its MSU nature, but now maybe I could circumvent the rule of 3! Problem is, I’m not actually that impressed by the weapons; I’m not even sure they are better than hurricane bolters against ideal targets. Plus, the fact that for 5 more points than the las-pulse you can get 3 salvo launchers which hurt armor more...idk. I’m going to run some math later, I’m also interested in the Telemon vs. Knight helverins, or the Grav tank.

I really wish the Sagittarum were troops even though they make sense as heavy, and I’m probably going to write Forgeworld that the bikes need different profiles...it’s probably a direct port from HH where bikes can move and fire heavy weapons without penalty.

https://www.mathhammer8thed.com/

Doing the math, the twin las-pulsar seems much better than the salvo launchers

The Twin-Pulsar is probably the best non-Hurricane Bolter. The -1 to Hit after moving on them is bleh though (all of them).

I'm not seeing the hype behind the Saggitarium Guard though. They seem to not really do anything particularly notable, especially compared to other Custodes.

Conversely, the Aquilon seem incredible. Huge strength or re-rolls wounds, great flamers or solid Bolters, imnate deep strike, affordable, just terrific. I love these guys.

I'm not particularly excited by the Agamatus jetbikes. They're more expensive than Vertus Praetors, all their ranged weapons are heavy which means they'll always be shooting on 3+ (keeping them still is a waste of their movement and melee prowess), and neither the Lastrum Bolt Cannon or Adrathic Devastator seem impressive (with the latter dealing mortal wounds to yourself on 1's AND 2's if you move) with the Twin Las Pulsar being decent but way too expensive. Not to mention they're not a good looking model, especially compared to Dawneagle jetbikes.

 WindstormSCR wrote:
After digging in some more, I’m starting to really like sagittarum with misericordias. they’re faster than CG, since the weapons are assault. They throw out a ton of shots at higher strength, more attacks in CC and as icing on the cake can really mess something up when they get close enough, all for about the same cost as shield CG. As an added bonus they pair very nicely in a spearhead with a telemon or Caladius support!

My thoughts exactly, they're still monsters in CC as long as you remember to buy the Misericordia, they're just each getting to tote around a heavy bolter to boot.

I'm sad that the alternate fire mode is utterly pointless however.

The Venatari need to be cheaper if they're gonna be 3+. I'd prefer if they were made 2+, but if they're gonna be 3+ they need to be more like 40pts than 50pts base I think. The Pallas is awesome for 100pts, I expect we'll see a lot of them.

 Lurker wrote:
https://www.mathhammer8thed.com/

Doing the math, the twin las-pulsar seems much better than the salvo launchers

Depends on the target, what I am interested in is T8 3+, and against that even a single Salvo launcher does almost equal damage (2.2 dmg for pulsar, 2.1 dmg for salvo). Remember, Salvo launchers re-roll wounds against vehicles. Granted you give up a hurricane bolter for it, but 15 points for a salvo launcher vs 40 for the las-pulsar tips the scale even more.

As for the lastrum bolt cannon / hurricanes / rapid-fire hurricanes:
T3, 5+: 1.67 / 2.22 / 4.44
T3, 4+: 1.39 / 1.67 / 3.33
T4, 3+: 0.89 / 0.83 / 1.66
T4, 2+: 0.67 / 0.42 / 0.84
T7, 3+: 0.44 / 0.56 / 1.12
T8, 3+: 0.44 / 0.28 / 0.56

In pretty much all common cases, the Hurricane bolters out-perform the lastrum bolters...even outside rapid-fire range. The sheer volume of fire at BS 2+ means you can get through even "tough" targets, and as we have pointed out in this thread ad naseum bikes ultimately have spears for those.

The two bikes having the same statline certainly helps out with the fact that I sourced guns to convert plastic bikes to have the forge world weapon setups, but it does look a lot like only the las ones will be hitting the table regularly.

I just realized how much better a Caladius grav tank is when compared to 4 Sagittarum guys.

12 shots with S5 -1 1dmg compared to

6 shots with S6 -2 AP 1dmg and 8 shots with S8 -3 AP d3 dmg for 10 points less.

the tank also has more than double the moving range
60" range with the 8 shots
can move and shoot without a penalty
can lose 9 wounds and still shoot with 3+ BS

how can a rules write not see this?