1500 points - Chaos space marines

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**ivangterrace**

I don't know if one can call this a tournament army since there is no real theme for the army, and the army's dedication to the chaos gods is split up

Daemon prince
-Wings
-Mark of Nurgle
-Warptime

Khorne Berserkers x10
-Skull champ + fist

Land Raider dedicated transport
-Daemonic possession
-Twin linked bolter

Khorne berserkers x 10
-Skull champ + power fist

Rhino Dedicated transport
- Daemonic possession
- Twin linked bolter

Chaos Space Marines x 10
-Asp champ + power weapon + plasma pistol
-Icon of chaos glory
- Flamer
-Meltagun

Rhino
-Daemonic possession
- Havoc launcher

Heavy Support

Predator
-Heavy bolter sponsons
-Extra armor
-Havoc launcher.

I'm left at 1415 with 85 points to spare.

Is this an okay list, perhaps competitive?

If not, what will make it better?

**darkkt**

Ok random thoughts...

I like it, but Landraider is a big points sink for an army under 1750 (IMHO). Id like another squad for those points - maybe some chosen?

Also, what makes Chaos rhino's great is their cheapness. I rarely upgrade - just take more! Or slap some lascannon sponsons on the predator.

with your left over 85, thats a oblit for deepstriking (on his on he wont last long)

**Jabi**

Deamonic Possession on Rhinos dont give you much advantage. You're duplicating cost of it. Instead of it take another squad or upgrade Predator.
Obliterators are a good choose too.

**Cannerus_The_Unbearable**

This list will get shot up and die. Run some more guys with guns besides bolt pistols, and always run 2x melta in CSM squads unless you want 2x flamer. The Land Raider isn't a dedicated transport, FYI.

**ivangterrace**

darkkt wrote:Ok random thoughts...

I like it, but Landraider is a big points sink for an army under 1750 (IMHO). Id like another squad for those points - maybe some chosen?

Also, what makes Chaos rhino's great is their cheapness. I rarely upgrade - just take more! Or slap some lascannon sponsons on the predator.

with your left over 85, thats a oblit for deepstriking (on his on he wont last long)

What weapons do I take for chosen? I don't know what combination of weapons is best for a squad of chosen, or how many to take.

**JGrand**

I don't mean to be a fluff Nazi here, but you're running all Berserkers and normal CSM's. Why would the Lord have the MoN? Why would they follow him. I think this is a bad oversight in the Codex but still, have some self respect and make him a DP of Khorne.

**mrwittwer**

I think the army list isnt to shabby, but i just question whether or not the rhinos or the land raider can have daemonic possesion? im looking at the codex and i dont see how they can have it? I could very well be wrong and in all honesty i hope i am wrong because daemonic possession on the landraider would be awesome. But i dont think he can have it?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the army list isnt to shabby, but i just question whether or not the rhinos or the land raider can have daemonic possesion? im looking at the codex and i dont see how they can have it? I could very well be wrong and in all honesty i hope i am wrong because daemonic possession on the landraider would be awesome. But i dont think he can have it?

**JGrand**

Rhino's and the LR can have demonic possession but shouldn't. It isn't worth the points on a rhino and the loss of BS on the Landraider. Demonic Possession is a Defiler and Vindicator type of upgrade.

**mrwittwer**

Ahhh thank you

**darkkt**

ivangterrace wrote:
darkkt wrote:quote]

What weapons do I take for chosen? I don't know what combination of weapons is best for a squad of chosen, or how many to take.

With chosen, you take a minimum of 5 guys, and give them all special weapons (5 meltas, 5 flamers, etc) - and you can infiltrate and outflank with them! they can be tank hunters supreme against IG, or if your up against tyranids, bring them on as reserves/outflank with 5 flamers, and decimate squads.

Make them extra survivable by slapping them in a rhino. Increase the number of chosen to a squad of 10, and you have 5 ablative wounds (the meat shield) to protect your special weapons.

Icon them and make them daemon bombs when infiltrated deep into cover (these guys rock in cityfights). If Cover is unavailable, Tzeentch marks give a 5+ invuln save (for a hefty price).

And, if you like the greater daemon (I have not used them - but I dont have the model for it), you can also use the cheapest Aspiring champion around (28 points vs 30 points on a standard CSM AC).

Be aware - any squad with 5 special weapons will be a fire magnet. Deployment is critical!

Remember, give them a purpose, and stick to that purpose.

As for the fluff nazi's, why would Zerkers follow a Nurgle DP? Simple, they dont - The World Eaters were reduced to roving warbands, led by Chaos Champions of exceptional skill and ferocity, who will fight for no more than the chance to spill blood in the name of their god.

All your Nurgle DP needs to do is to invite the frothing madmen to a battle - the hard part is directing them (I suspect this is no easier for a Khorne DP than a Nurgle one!).

HOWEVER - I do like to have at least one squad with marks that match my HQ - thats a personal preference, and by no means required by the rules.

**DarkHound**

Landraider transports love Possession. An AV14 all around tank that ignores 2/3 of glances? Yes. Our Landraiders are horrible at being attack units anyway. If you do end up having to use it as a gun boat, its accuracy only drops from an 83% to a 75%.

Anyway, Predator doesn't need Extra Armor. Rhino doesn't need Possession or a Havoc Launcher. I'd rather take a Possessed Vindicator than a Predator, but it's your call.

It would soothe the fluff Nazi in me if you got Plague Marines. CSM are alright to sit on objectives, but if it would help your fluff and you have the points, just get blasted Plague Marines. They will outlast the CSM as objective holders by miles.

The biggest problem this list has is its lack of anti-tank, or any ranged firepower really. I fear Mech lists will be able to just run circles around you and heavy armor Guard will be tough.

PS: I hate it when people try to justify a certain Lord leading a different cult by saying "he just invited them with." This is fine, but he'd have more elements of his army than the guys he picked up. Not a jab at your darkkt, just a random rant.

**ivangterrace**

DarkHound wrote:Landraider transports love Possession. An AV14 all around tank that ignores 2/3 of glances? Yes. Our Landraiders are horrible at being attack units anyway. If you do end up having to use it as a gun boat, its accuracy only drops from an 83% to a 75%.

Anyway, Predator doesn't need Extra Armor. Rhino doesn't need Possession or a Havoc Launcher. I'd rather take a Possessed Vindicator than a Predator, but it's your call.

It would soothe the fluff Nazi in me if you got Plague Marines. CSM are alright to sit on objectives, but if it would help your fluff and you have the points, just get blasted Plague Marines. They will outlast the CSM as objective holders by miles.

The biggest problem this list has is its lack of anti-tank, or any ranged firepower really. I fear Mech lists will be able to just run circles around you and heavy armor Guard will be tough.

PS: I hate it when people try to justify a certain Lord leading a different cult by saying "he just invited them with." This is fine, but he'd have more elements of his army than the guys he picked up. Not a jab at your darkkt, just a random rant.

I'm just working with what models I have in my collection. I do have a vindicator in my collection which I should have said earlier, if anyone has a suggestion based around putting one in my army.

I'm not quite sure what I want to paint my daemon prince up to yet. Khorne is cool and all but he doesn't get any nifty psychic powers to play around with. So maybe replacing the normal CSM squad with plague marines would make it more lorelol friendly?

I'll take what suggestions have been made in the thread and make a new list and post it here.

I did get to play with my land raider in a 2k point game and those things are fire magnets but most things just bounced off of them. It did a way better job of getting my berserkers up into combat safely then any rhino I've used for them.

**DarkHound**

Well Plague Marines will fill the only gap in your list. That being, dedicated objective holders. Give them 2 Plasmaguns so they can actually help your army (24" is nothing so scoff at). Infact, you could probably get away with dropping the Berserkers a couple men, taking the PM squad at 7 and getting another squad of PM. The more the marrier, eh?

If you want a Khorne DP, just grab Warptime instead of MoK. He's already a beast, and you can call Warptime his "Khornite prowess." The Nurgle DP will be the better choice in this list, forcing the enemy to put even more anti-tank fire at it.

A Vindicator will help with anti-TEQ and anti-horde. I'll do some work with this list later and see what I can fit in the list.

**ivangterrace**

Bit of a revamp, but here is what I am up to so far

I used excel so any zero (0) values beside something means IT IS NOT THERE Sorry for the minor inconvenience, I just want to go to bed now

Also, I don't know if the plague marines should have bolters or CCWs. I am leaning on bolters because they'll be squatting on objectives, and I can have one group follow the khorne berserkers and provide covering fire as the berserkers disembark.

Primary Assaulters
Daemon Prince 110
Wings 20
Mark of Nurgle 20
Warptime 25
Total 175

10x Khorne Berserkers 210
Champ 15
Power Fist 25
Plasma Pistol 15
Total 265

Rhino 35
Daemonic Possession 20
Total 55

Objective Grabbers

7x Plague Marines 161
Asp. Champ 0
Power Fist 0
Plasma gun x2 30
Total 191

Rhino 35
Havoc Launcher 0
Total 35

7x Plague Marines 161
Champ. 0
Power Fist 0
Plasma Gun x2 30
Total 206

Rhino 35
TL Bolter 0
35

7x Plague Marines 161
Champ. 15
Power Fist 15
Flamer x2 10
Total 201

Rhino 35
TL bolter 5
Total 35

Fire Support

Chaos Predator 70
TL Lascannon 35
Lascannon Sponsons 60
Total 165

Chaos Vindicator 125
Daemonic Possession 20
Havoc Launcher 0
Total 145

Grand Total 1498

**wuestenfux**

Well, I'd equip the PM units in a more focused way:

7 PM with 2 plasma guns, Rhino - as objective grabbers

7 PM with 2 flamers, incl. Ac with power fist, Rhino - as cc oriented unit.

**ivangterrace**

wuestenfux wrote:Well, I'd equip the PM units in a more focused way:

7 PM with 2 plasma guns, Rhino - as objective grabbers

7 PM with 2 flamers, incl. Ac with power fist, Rhino - as cc oriented unit.

k, I changed the list up

2 PM squads have 2x plasma guns and bolters, no champ

1 has 2x flamers and CCWs and a champion w/ power fist.

I have 22 leftover points so I gave my berserker sergeant a power pistol (because I have one modeled with one) and took a TL bolter on a rhino.