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Thousand sons have caught my interest as my new army but i have a few questions to ask (don't worry, i'll be getting the codex in my hands soon so i can get a better view). Firstly, i have heard.. well.. not the best things about playing a thousand sons army, but - can they stay competitive without it using the current spam obliterators/DP with lash? and secondly, what are the thousand sons pros/cons? and how does it hold with current horde army lists (stealer shock, orc tide etc)? is this all possible with just only using thousand sons since? i don't really want to use other Gods (don't roll with me). sorry for the noobish questions

Thanks for the information

A guy in our area plays them. His list is something like:

Demon Prince W/mark of Tzeench, warptime, gift of chaos, wings
10 thousand sons, sorcerer w/ gift of chaos in rhino with combi melta
10 thousand sons, sorcerer w/ gift of chaos in rhino with combi melta
10 thousand sons, sorcerer w/ gift of chaos
10 raptors 2 with meltas
3 obliterators
1 predator with TL lascannon and sponson lascannons

I really hate this army, due to all the spawn spawning it can accomplish. He has a pretty good win loss record with it and has won a couple of tournaments using this list.

Thousand sons have EPIC helmets, also the AP3 weaponry and fearlessnes gives you a preety sweet, elite army.

Also, thier sergeants can have phsycic powers, how cool is that!?!

I've played the spawny spawn list and it's fun, but a psychic hood can really ruin your day (and so can null zone).

Tsons don't compare favorably with other chaos cult marines because, counting the cost of the sorcerer, they are the most expensive by far. The 4+ invul isn't that great since you can typically get that from being in cover, and by the same token the AP3 shots are often negated by cover and no better than regular bolters versus anything other than MEqs. Tsons are also the weakest in close combat because they don't have bp & ccw like all other chaos marines, and they don't tarpit that much better than any other kind of cult marine. So they really only have one role where they shine--shooting at power-armored troops who are in the open, which doesn't happen that often in the current metagame.

In a pure Tsons army the real problem is getting antitank. You have to resort to landraiders, dreads, oblits or non-fearless raptors & terminators in order to get melta, which really cuts into the number of expensive troops you can take. Bolt of change--which is essentially an 85 point understrength shortranged lascannon--isn't really viable for antitank. Wind and gift on the sorcerer are more complimentary to the role of the Tsons unit.

Still it can work, especially in higher-point games where you can buy the backup units to support the Tsons. I've never seen an army with more than 3 units of thousand sons, though.

<quote>
Tsons don't compare favorably with other chaos cult marines because, counting the cost of the sorcerer, they are the most expensive by far
<quote>

Rubbish! Ksorcerer properly built is 90 points. Sarge w/fist is 21-23 points + 15 + 25, so slightly over 60. You lose one extra joe to get a warptiming forceweapon/melta bomb instead of a pfist. Ksons are fine, easily competative with the other cult troopers, if not better than several.

Toxxic wrote:A guy in our area plays them. His list is something like:

Demon Prince W/mark of Tzeench, warptime, gift of chaos, wings
10 thousand sons, sorcerer w/ gift of chaos in rhino with combi melta
10 thousand sons, sorcerer w/ gift of chaos in rhino with combi melta
10 thousand sons, sorcerer w/ gift of chaos
10 raptors 2 with meltas
3 obliterators
1 predator with TL lascannon and sponson lascannons

This list would cause me some serious worry.... though I'd have to change up the Fast Attack and Heavy Support selections.


There's just not enough Uberhate in that particular setup.

Something to remember is that the Thousand Suns get their 4+ Invulnerable save in close combat, which is good because close combat is where stuff like Dreadnoughts, Nobz, Terminators, and so on chew Plague Marines to bits.

With Slow and Purposeful they can fire twice before entering combat, and since you need to be as close as possible to initiate combat with them anyways (use a Land Raider...), you don't have to worry about your opponent denying the charge by removing casualties. Give them a Personal Icon to summon extra muscle in the form of Summoned Lesser Daemons.

Things like Null Zone and Psychic Hoods will only do bad things to you if the other player can get away with it. Use a Daemon Prince or a Lord on a Disc to hunt down the Librarian. Remember also that you can basically spam the Gift of Chaos, using the Thousand Suns units to hold units in place for the beginning of the Aspiring Sorcerer's turn, when he can cast Gift of Chaos twice thanks to the Mark of Tzeentch. In the list given above the Chaos player has the potential to cast eight Psychic powers.

What I think you're going to want to do is take Land Raiders to cart your Thousand Suns units around in, provide anti-tank firepower, and to get them where they need to go. Take the Rhinos dedicated transports as well, but make sure that they have Havoc Launchers for bargain-basement Whirlwinds.

Ahriman

Chaos Dreadnought
w/Plasma Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower, Extra Armour

Chaos Dreadnought
w/Plasma Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower, Extra Armour

Thousand Suns
Aspiring Sorcerer w/Gift of Chaos, Meltabombs 100
8 Thousand Suns w/Personal Icon 207
Rhino w/Havoc Launcher 50

Thousand Suns
Aspiring Sorcerer w/Gift of Chaos, Meltabombs 100
9 Thousand Suns w/Personal Icon 207
Rhino w/Havoc Launcher 50

Lesser Summoned Daemons
12 Lesser Daemons

Land Raider
w/Daemonic Possession, Combi-Melta

Land Raider
w/Daemonic Possession, Combi-Melta

Sub Ahriman for:

Chaos Sorcerer
w/Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch, Melta Bombs, Personal Icon, Warptime, Gift of Chaos

He's now a Jump Infantry Sorcerer with A6 (+1 Disc, +1 Force Weapon and Pistol, +1 Assault), re-rolling to hit and to wound with Warptime, and causing Instant Death via Force Weapon. If he gets bogged down in combat, or gets threatened by a Power Fist, then he can start throwing around the Gift of Chaos.

One Extra Thousand Sun Marine

Or:

Daemon Prince
w/Mark of Tzeentch, Wings, Warptime, Gift of Chaos

One Extra Thousand Sun Marine

One Extra Lesser Daemon

I'd take the Sorcerer though, simply for the Personal Icon that he bears.

That's probably the best TS army list I've seen Nurglich.

I love the TS fluff and the models but I just feel that I'm ripping myself off by paying points for 4+ invul. save (which I can get from cover)
and the AP3 which is negated by cover. These TS marines rules would have been a steal in 4th edition but I'm a little scared to invest the
time and money into doing TS in 5th edition.

I think in 5th edition, Emperor's children or deathguard are the way to go if you want a good themed list.

You're not getting ripped off, because the Thousand Suns will get their 4+ Invulnerable save when cover-denying weapons ignore whatever cover they may have. And in combat where there is no cover. Likewise having AP3 Bolters is good if they reduce Sv3+ to 4+ cover saves, and being able to deny saves entirely (and to shoot at 24" range while moving, and not have to worry about Gets Hot!) is just icing on the cake.

Nurglish, after careful consideration I have decided only one word can describe that list....cheese. Dude how can you sleep at night lol.

Yeah, Nurglitch, you and your cheesy Chaos Dreadnaughts, and Ahriman. So internet cookie cutter. I mean, seriously, try giving something like berserkers and lash sorcerers a try, ya know, just for variety.

You can get forgeworld chaos dreads for really not much more than you pay for the ubercrappy GW metal chaos dread.

When is GW going to bless us damned souls with a plastic chaos dread???

I usually disagree with you Nurglich when it comes to Tsons. But I really like that list. I really really like it. The only thing I have anything to say is, are you sure about the plasma cannons on the dreads? Even if you put them next to one another they can still fire frenzy one another to death. Also, am I missing something or are those Land raiders empty?

Typeline wrote:I usually disagree with you Nurglich when it comes to Tsons. But I really like that list. I really really like it. The only thing I have anything to say is, are you sure about the plasma cannons on the dreads? Even if you put them next to one another they can still fire frenzy one another to death. Also, am I missing something or are those Land raiders empty?

I'd just put a land raider between the two. S7 won't damage a land raider. I thoroughly endorse plasma cannons on dreads.

I also second the enthusiasm for the list. Looks interesting to play.

The Renaissance is coming! Thousand Sons are now cheese!

Chosen with Flamers (lots of them) can help push smacktards out into the open for AP3 goodness. If you are going to completely deck out a Sorcerer, the same thing on a DP is cheaper (odd right?), and since you are already paying so much for everything, you might as well just grab Ahriman (cause his model rocks too). Also, if you want to be a jerk, get a Greater Daemon and some Chaos Marines with Meltas in there to give you some fodder and anti-tank. Let me write up a list...

EDIT: Scratch the list, I don't have time at the moment.

Mad Rabbit wrote:

Typeline wrote:I usually disagree with you Nurglich when it comes to Tsons. But I really like that list. I really really like it. The only thing I have anything to say is, are you sure about the plasma cannons on the dreads? Even if you put them next to one another they can still fire frenzy one another to death. Also, am I missing something or are those Land raiders empty?

I'd just put a land raider between the two. S7 won't damage a land raider. I thoroughly endorse plasma cannons on dreads.

I also second the enthusiasm for the list. Looks interesting to play.

Good point, but do the land raiders have anything in them? Seems odd to have empty land raiders is all.

You could always drop the rhinos and put their havoc launchers on the raiders and put them in the raiders. Then if anything left itself open, you could drive the raider way out there throw the Tsons out, move forward (3 inch minimum) and open fire (minimum range of 33 inches). You could really reach out and touch someone with that. They wouldn't be expecting it either. With the extra points I think one might come close to affording another dread. Statistically you'd loose control of one of them each turn though.

The Thousand Sons go in the Land Raiders. The Rhino's are "bargain whirlwinds".

Thanks for all the positive comments and a great army list nurglitch, i do have a question about it though - what's the point for the 12 lesser demon's i heard they were pretty pointless, or i could be wrong? and does the thousand sons ride in the land raider's? and when would you disembark the thousand son's? would you just place them on objective's or when you need the extra firepower?

thanks for all the comments and I'm sorry about the late reply.

Gutteridge wrote:Thanks for all the positive comments and a great army list nurglitch, i do have a question about it though - what's the point for the 12 lesser demon's i heard they were pretty pointless, or i could be wrong? and does the thousand sons ride in the land raider's? and when would you disembark the thousand son's? would you just place them on objective's or when you need the extra firepower?

thanks for all the comments and I'm sorry about the late reply.

The lesser demons are more troops that can land and hold an objective or support a unit of Tsons that was hit in an assault. You don't need to disembark from a transport if troops are in it. You can park on top of the objective (and in some cases prevent an opponent from getting within three inches to contest said objective) while the troops are in the vehicle. I think since the rhinos are dedicated transports to troops they can hold objectives too. But someone else should probably clear that up, it's possibly a false ruling.

Gutteridge:

The Lesser Summoned Daemons are 13pts each. They're useful in this list for the reasons Typeline has stated. As well, they provide some numbers and close combat ability, to either pin units in place until the Dreadnoughts can close, or screen the Thousand Suns.

Whether the Thousand Suns go in the Rhinos or the Land Raiders depends on what you're playing, but the option is there for you to use the Land Raiders as assault vehicles and to use the Rhinos as fire support, while there's also the option to use the Rhinos as cartage and the Land Raiders as fire support. And, of course, you can always launch them all up the field using the Land Raiders to block line of sight to the Rhinos and the Dreadnoughts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Typeline:

A unit of Troops does not count as scoring if it is a vehicle [p.90, 5th edition Rulebook]. Rhinos cannot score.

Thanks for the clear-up typeline and nurglitch, ill be getting the codex today so i can see the things clearer.

Nurglitch wrote:Typeline:

A unit of Troops does not count as scoring if it is a vehicle [p.90, 5th edition Rulebook]. Rhinos cannot score.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I was thinking I had it wrong.