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Is the Terminator champion upgrade worth it ? 10 points for another attack seems like a high cost personally.

Are they worth it to just take 30 of them at a base give them all mark of tzeentch and go to town?


Just kind of curious how people played this.

Small squads with max Combi-meltas, deepstriking off Icons.

If I were doing it I'd create a shooty gunline.

20x CTerms with mark of nurgle (or Slaanesh, never Tzeentch IMO) and a couple heavy flamers and chainfists per squad, Champ upgrade on models with the Chainfists only and 3-6 combi-meltas.

That puts you at a point cost of about 400 pts/squad, 2 squads for 800. Add 9 Oblits and fill with basic CSM in rhinos.

The reason I'd never run Tzeentch is because for the most part, you can park your Termis in cover and gain all the advantages of a Tzeentch Term with T5. CSM aren't primary assault units like AssTerms or Nobz. They can hold their own in CC but a lack of assault grenades or meaningful assault transport (5 guys out of a LR doesn't cut it) leaves them wanting.

Edit:

And yes, the most competitive way to do so is to create minimal squads with combi meltas deep striking to kill armor while still representing a moderate threat in CC. I personally like 4 with 3 combi melta and a heavy flamer. This doens't lend itself to Termi "spam", however.

I've just never really used them other than a 4 man retinue w/ a general in a landraider.


Just looking at the points and ( the fact I have so many damn terms from AOBR), that it seems you could spam ,3 squads of terms w/ 2 Squads of Oblits etc...

Well the other problem with Terminators is their leadership. They aren't fearless, and don't get ATSKNF like loyal termies. That's a big chunk of points that can get run off the board by even a crappy tank shock.

Termicides were better in 4th. They give up KP too easily now and your troop squads (at least a few) ought to have Melta guns anyway. Tzeentch is the better mark defensively and Slaanesh or Khorne are better for different things offensively. I like Slaanesh + Dual LCs myself for the bonus attack and high Init, with a Chainfist in there for anti-tank.

Point by point:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Termicides were better in 4th. They give up KP too easily now and your troop squads (at least a few) ought to have Melta guns anyway.

The kill point issue is irrelevant as it's often a 1:1 trade; you kill their transport, they kill your Termicides. The trade is often in your favor because they have to waste a comparatively high amount of resources to knock out 3 guys with a 2+ save.

Tzeentch is the better mark defensively and Slaanesh or Khorne are better for different things offensively. I like Slaanesh + Dual LCs myself for the bonus attack and high Init, with a Chainfist in there for anti-tank.

Depends entirely how you're using them. If you're suiciding the squad, then no marks is the best choice because they're wasted points. If you're creating a huge shooty unit, then Nurgle + Terrain is better than Tzeentch. And if you're in close combat, you should probably be running something other than Terminators because they're hard to transport in significant numbers, lose to AssTerms no matter *what* mark you give them on a point for point basis, and don't have frag grenades.

I was honestly just thinking that well for 30 points i get a guy that has a 2+ 5+ invulnerable and a powerweapon.

I was shooting for 37 points per model, so I have a price range of 300 to 370 points


Just can't really seem to get a good range of powerfists to meltas.

3 Powerfists, Mark of Khorne, 3 Meltas ehhhhh

Don't max out Powerfists. They hinder the Loyalist squads (except for Assault Terminators, but we have nothing to compare to those) against most targets, and we are special because we don't come with them standard. Take just enough to get the job done (1 and 1 Chainfist) without going overboard.

I think you're using the term "shooty" loosely. Reaper Autocannon. Combi-plasmas. That's it. Everything else is up-close. And popping a LR? Admirable. Popping a "transport?" As in a 35-70 point vehicle? I'll spend my points better elsewhere. Just my opinion.

Yeah I kind of agree, I see them as heavy CC troops.

2 powerfists, 4 combimeltas, Mark of Khorne or Slaanesh I cannot decide.

Slaanesh lets them pretty much hit before marines which is nice, kind of useless against IG and Orks etc..

I actually wrote an article about this that you may find useful.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/How_to_Equip_Chaos_Space_Marine_Terminators

plug

I optimally want to keep it at the 1000 to 1100 point range.

30 Terms for normal Marines is 1200 points.

1000 points would be a perfect " range" as it leaves some points over for a good amount in playing above 1500.

Okay I think I got my "range"

10 man unit w/ 2 chainfists , 3 combimeltas, Mark of Slaanesh ; 370 points

I went with a low number of meltaguns, versus a large as its really a once shot and with them deepstriking they should be in CC soon enough, Slaanesh gives them the ooomf they need to fight marines even ones running at them with Furious Charge they strike at the same initiative. comes out to 1110. Which still leaves enough room in higher than 1500 points.


So what you think , I mean the only purpose really I see the Meltas serving is blasting transports in order to assault what is inside. Slaanesh gives them a high enough initiative to deal with annoying assaults by MEQs, Against Eldar dark eldar its not super useful but otherwise it seems to be.

I personally always include a heavy flamer in any squad I make. It doesn't kill tanks, but it doesn't have to. It's cheap compared to the autocannon and can kill way more. If you want anti-tank, go with the combi weapons.

I personally have the MOST success with a few termicide squads but I also enjoy tearing up the field with some Slaanesh-marked terminators. 2 Heavy flamer/chainfist, 2 meltas, 2 melta powerfist, 2 plasma, 1 flamer and the remaining guy holding an icon is a great loadout for me in my experience.

Despite having the mark of Slaanesh, 6 guys is usually enough to take the sting out of almost anything charging you. Hopefully you've landed where you can do some damage and are either killing something isolated or are being supported by your own troops. I'll usually dump the plasma and melta into a vehicle of some type, and then spend the remaining time as anti-troops, moving, flaming/boltering, then charging whatever I can. I run lash princes, so if anything's out of reach I make sure it's not in a jiffy. The squad costs 410, and two of those are a real mess for most enemies to deal with.

I usually just run 1 though. A squad like that can't stand on its own, and I'd rather spend the other 410 points on 2 squads of CSM to back them up with bodies and guns than more terminators. It's also nice to have something fearless in the close combat with them like cult troops or princes. That way if they lose [they shouldn't lose by MUCH, sheesh] the fearless thing will stick around and they won't be chased down, giving them [hopefully] a chance to regroup after falling back.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:I think you're using the term "shooty" loosely. Reaper Autocannon. Combi-plasmas. That's it. Everything else is up-close. And popping a LR? Admirable. Popping a "transport?" As in a 35-70 point vehicle? I'll spend my points better elsewhere. Just my opinion.

However, popping a 35-70 point transport after coming down on an icon, and having your boys (zerkers or whatever) assault the contents, wipe them out, and then screen the termies or be screened by them with their consolidation move is priceless.

And long winded I must say.

They make very good fire support Deepstriking in a list filled with Icons. They need a Landraider if you really want to take advantage of their CC prowess, though.