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Here’s my current list.

Tiggy
Primaris Lt. (burning blade)

2x 5x Intercessor - bolt rifles - auxiliary grenade launcher - power sword

5x Scout - bolt pistols & combat blades

5x Hellblaster - standard incinerator

4x Inceptor - plasma exterminator

Culexus Assassin

Trajann

Shield Captain mounted on Dawneagle - hurricane bolter - 3++

3x Allarus Custodian

4x Warden - 3x Axe - Spear

Vexilla Praetor - Spear

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Yeah I typically start the game making one of my repulsors T9. Combining that with the armour of contempt stratagem if people try to smite it to death can make it soak a ton of enemy fire. It's a good way to absorb stuff like flyrant alpha strikes, especially when the enemy have -2" off their charge rolls if they want to go for a repulsor (which flyrants probably won't).

The repulsor does quite often still die, but not without taking a hell of a lot of killing. It's a sustainable loss at 2k, and puts me in a good position to hit back.

...OR They just ignore it because it isn't transporting anything good for the cost?

A repulsor is hard to ignore when it contains 10 hellblasters and shoots a bunch of lascannons and dakka at you. It’s downright distracting, honestly.

Repulsor aren’t rhinos or razorbacks. They are more like a cross between a land raider and a stormraven. People keep telling me they are useless but I seem to be able to compete at hardcore tournaments using them. Weird.

And they're not showing up en masse to those hardcore tournaments! Weird.

There is actually a reason for that.

Also Hellblasters are super mediocre unless you're Dark Angels and able to Strategem them to greatness every turn.

If you put 10 Ultramarine hellblasters near Guilliman, they eat almost everything within 15" and not having a decent inv saves or tons of wounds or not under protection of Venomthropes. I think their main issue is not the firepower but their survivability. Their firepower make them the focus of enemy firepower. So getting them into position to at least fire one round in their full strength is the key. That is one good reason to take Repulsor. Just hell, that thing is expensive.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Yeah I typically start the game making one of my repulsors T9. Combining that with the armour of contempt stratagem if people try to smite it to death can make it soak a ton of enemy fire. It's a good way to absorb stuff like flyrant alpha strikes, especially when the enemy have -2" off their charge rolls if they want to go for a repulsor (which flyrants probably won't).

The repulsor does quite often still die, but not without taking a hell of a lot of killing. It's a sustainable loss at 2k, and puts me in a good position to hit back.

...OR They just ignore it because it isn't transporting anything good for the cost?

A repulsor is hard to ignore when it contains 10 hellblasters and shoots a bunch of lascannons and dakka at you. It’s downright distracting, honestly.

Repulsor aren’t rhinos or razorbacks. They are more like a cross between a land raider and a stormraven. People keep telling me they are useless but I seem to be able to compete at hardcore tournaments using them. Weird.

And they're not showing up en masse to those hardcore tournaments! Weird.

There is actually a reason for that.

Also Hellblasters are super mediocre unless you're Dark Angels and able to Strategem them to greatness every turn.

If you put 10 Ultramarine hellblasters near Guilliman, they eat almost everything within 15" and not having a decent inv saves or tons of wounds or not under protection of Venomthropes. I think their main issue is not the firepower but their survivability. Their firepower make them the focus of enemy firepower. So getting them into position to at least fire one round in their full strength is the key. That is one good reason to take Repulsor. Just hell, that thing is expensive.

Rowboat makes anything near him better. That's not new. It isn't even up for discussion. Saying to run Rowboat to make them better is basically saying asking AdMech players to keep using Cawl.

Plus how are you going to have Rowboat keep up with the Repulsor?

On the topic of MoH, Been running Bray'arth Ashmantle in a Dreadnought drop pod with a librarian with a jump pack. Not really point efficient, but it is hilarious to see a T10 2+5++4+++ dreadnought eat all the fire a gunline can dish out against it. The dreadnought drop pod even becomes a bunker because he's a character dreadnought with 8 wounds. If the opposing army isn't carrying a lot of S5/9/10 Weapons then I just use VoT instead for a better chance at first turn charges.

Mandragola wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Yeah I typically start the game making one of my repulsors T9. Combining that with the armour of contempt stratagem if people try to smite it to death can make it soak a ton of enemy fire. It's a good way to absorb stuff like flyrant alpha strikes, especially when the enemy have -2" off their charge rolls if they want to go for a repulsor (which flyrants probably won't).

The repulsor does quite often still die, but not without taking a hell of a lot of killing. It's a sustainable loss at 2k, and puts me in a good position to hit back.

...OR They just ignore it because it isn't transporting anything good for the cost?

A repulsor is hard to ignore when it contains 10 hellblasters and shoots a bunch of lascannons and dakka at you. It’s downright distracting, honestly.

Repulsor aren’t rhinos or razorbacks. They are more like a cross between a land raider and a stormraven. People keep telling me they are useless but I seem to be able to compete at hardcore tournaments using them. Weird.

So you have a repulsor, 10 hellblaster and a librarian, meaning you have about 33% of your army in one unit. But it is ok because it is T9 ...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Yeah I typically start the game making one of my repulsors T9. Combining that with the armour of contempt stratagem if people try to smite it to death can make it soak a ton of enemy fire. It's a good way to absorb stuff like flyrant alpha strikes, especially when the enemy have -2" off their charge rolls if they want to go for a repulsor (which flyrants probably won't).

The repulsor does quite often still die, but not without taking a hell of a lot of killing. It's a sustainable loss at 2k, and puts me in a good position to hit back.

...OR They just ignore it because it isn't transporting anything good for the cost?

A repulsor is hard to ignore when it contains 10 hellblasters and shoots a bunch of lascannons and dakka at you. It’s downright distracting, honestly.

Repulsor aren’t rhinos or razorbacks. They are more like a cross between a land raider and a stormraven. People keep telling me they are useless but I seem to be able to compete at hardcore tournaments using them. Weird.

And they're not showing up en masse to those hardcore tournaments! Weird.

There is actually a reason for that.

Also Hellblasters are super mediocre unless you're Dark Angels and able to Strategem them to greatness every turn.

If you put 10 Ultramarine hellblasters near Guilliman, they eat almost everything within 15" and not having a decent inv saves or tons of wounds or not under protection of Venomthropes. I think their main issue is not the firepower but their survivability. Their firepower make them the focus of enemy firepower. So getting them into position to at least fire one round in their full strength is the key. That is one good reason to take Repulsor. Just hell, that thing is expensive.

Rowboat makes anything near him better. That's not new. It isn't even up for discussion. Saying to run Rowboat to make them better is basically saying asking AdMech players to keep using Cawl.

Plus how are you going to have Rowboat keep up with the Repulsor?

The Ultramarine Primarch makes lots of things near him better, that is no doubt. But that I don't think that indicate Hellblaster are bad when this unit is devasting when buffed by Guilliman. TBH, some units, like Tactical Squads, Scouts Squads and Assault Squads are too low in their firepower output that even if you take Guilliman they are not worth to be squeeze into that 6" bubble to gain the buff. On the other hand, units like Aggressors, Devastators, Predators, Leviathan Dread, "maybe" the Repulsors, and the Contemptor Dread / Venerable Dread would become really deadly when near the Primarch. The Hellblasters, owing to their 5-10 RF AP-4 plasma make them worthy to get buff by Guilliman.

Guilliman naturally moves 8", so with +1" to advance, he can certainly keep up with Repulsor which moves 10" a turn. Even Tigirius if close to Guilliman, with advance can keep himself within 6" of Repulsor to give it -1 to hit for the first two turns.......

Thats an insane amount of points to invest for 10 helblaster shots though. Like jesus your sinking 1100pts plus into that, over half of a 2k list. Even temoving guilliman and tiggy thats a minimum cost of 600pts probably more likely 700. So still half of the 1300 pts you had left after guilliman and tiggy and scouts.

 godardc wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Yeah I typically start the game making one of my repulsors T9. Combining that with the armour of contempt stratagem if people try to smite it to death can make it soak a ton of enemy fire. It's a good way to absorb stuff like flyrant alpha strikes, especially when the enemy have -2" off their charge rolls if they want to go for a repulsor (which flyrants probably won't).

The repulsor does quite often still die, but not without taking a hell of a lot of killing. It's a sustainable loss at 2k, and puts me in a good position to hit back.

...OR They just ignore it because it isn't transporting anything good for the cost?

A repulsor is hard to ignore when it contains 10 hellblasters and shoots a bunch of lascannons and dakka at you. It’s downright distracting, honestly.

Repulsor aren’t rhinos or razorbacks. They are more like a cross between a land raider and a stormraven. People keep telling me they are useless but I seem to be able to compete at hardcore tournaments using them. Weird.

So you have a repulsor, 10 hellblaster and a librarian, meaning you have about 33% of your army in one unit. But it is ok because it is T9 ...

It's 4 units by my count. Repulsor, 2x5 hellblasters and librarian. The libby tends to start in my other repulsor, along with assorted other characters and another unit.

I'm not sure what your point is anyway. Sure, sometimes people kill a repulsor - but not all that easily. And it's not as if the hellblasters and libby die if they do.

I actually see it as a clear benefit to have only a few drops. My army tends to have 5 or 6, so I get to go first in about 60% of games, which really helps.

Ice_can wrote:
Thats an insane amount of points to invest for 10 helblaster shots though. Like jesus your sinking 1100pts plus into that, over half of a 2k list. Even temoving guilliman and tiggy thats a minimum cost of 600pts probably more likely 700. So still half of the 1300 pts you had left after guilliman and tiggy and scouts.

Right, because Guilliman, Tiggy and the Repulsor do nothing else. And the hellblasters never get to rapid fire.

Seriously.

Ice_can wrote:
Thats an insane amount of points to invest for 10 helblaster shots though. Like jesus your sinking 1100pts plus into that, over half of a 2k list. Even temoving guilliman and tiggy thats a minimum cost of 600pts probably more likely 700. So still half of the 1300 pts you had left after guilliman and tiggy and scouts.

I agree, that is an very expensive combination. But most thing in marine codex is overcosted anyway, except maybe Guilliman. If using this combination, it is basically the core of the army, the rest would be some Scout screens, a couple Dreadnought to help Guilliman in melee, and some units carrying lascsnnons. The strategy is try to up close ASAP and unleash 1-2 deadly salvo then into combat if needed.

Some times it work, sometimes it don't. You might somehow need to hope that -1 / -2 to hit and the psychic power from Tigirius is enough to keep the bulk of your army (i.e. that Repulsor and Dread) alive long enough.

Even discounting Guilliman and Tiggy thats is still over half of your points in a single drop, that is kinda one trick.
600-700 points gets you a lot of razorbacks, you also have what 1 or 2 other target for all my anti tank to pound, one turning a single repulsor is easier than one turning magnus/morti and at that point your hellbsters are on foot and prime for anti infantry death.

 Primark G wrote:
If you are going to use MoH to buff a tank it should be a land raider, repulsor or vindicator - you are doing it wrong that's all.

That's not totally the case. Slapping it on a Dreadnought who's already made it into the thick of it means you can take advantage of the boost to Strength and Attacks as well, and T8 isn't bad just because it's no functional difference against Lascannons. S9 at 48" is a luxury I think the Imperium takes for granted. A lot of anti-vehicle is S7, S8, or just massed shots of lower S. T8 dreadnoughts also mean desperate S4 spam becomes grossly ineffective.

Making one target harder to kill than others influences your opponents decisions. Should I shoot at this T9 Raven Guard Leviathan closing in on me with my lascannons even though I'm hitting on 4s, wounding on 4s, and he gets a 4++ save? Or should I just shoot that predator?

And with Null Zone "never going off," the threat of it is still real. Jump pack libbys especially threaten a HUGE 18" area around them with their speed and the possibility of getting Null Zone off, and using it to mow down a hoard of daemons or murder a costly HQ who's squishy outside of his invul save is a threat your opponent will have to consider.

So bottom line is I don't think Librarians are bad. I wouldn't mind a point decrease (before CA they were way too taxing), but they're by no means bad.

jcd386 wrote:
I am curious what you guys are running lately, if you are even actually playing Marines.

Would it be out of place here ask people to list generally what you've been running, what parts you've found work, and what armies you've had a hard time against?

Ideally pure SM, but I'd be interested also in what you've been using as allies as well.

My latest list which I've been sticking too is a pure Raven Guard list with Kevin Shrike, Jump Libby, 3 Vanguard Veteran squads, 4 scout squads, 2 intercessors, 3 predators, and whatever other riff raff I can muster, usually an extra Captain and a Lieutenant to support my backline. Since I've used it I've been really lucky getting first turn, so I'm worried it will crumple if I ever go second. Kill Shot is a godlike stratagem that more than makes up the loss of Chapter Tactics, and I find shooty dreadnoughts too slow for my liking, and very difficult to reposition to find new targets.

The list is scary. The only downside is I usually give away a free point for Slay the Warlord since Shrike will almost always get stuck in. I'd like to try to play him more conservatively and let a dinky Captain land in his place, but the re-roll charge aura is way too strong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
And they're not showing up en masse to those hardcore tournaments! Weird.

There is actually a reason for that.

Also Hellblasters are super mediocre unless you're Dark Angels and able to Strategem them to greatness every turn.

Just because a unit isn't the best, most cost effective thing in the codex doesn't mean it's terrible. High, high, high level 40k isn't really what we should all strive to play, or we'd just be back to Gillman and his four birds. If the man says Repulsors are effective, then maybe you should drop it on the table one time and give it a shot. You can't determine a unit's effectiveness purely on paper; you gotta test it.

I have curb stomped every opponent with a repulsor, Tiggy or not. It just doesn't bring enough utility for its price.

 SputnikDX wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
If you are going to use MoH to buff a tank it should be a land raider, repulsor or vindicator - you are doing it wrong that's all.

That's not totally the case. Slapping it on a Dreadnought who's already made it into the thick of it means you can take advantage of the boost to Strength and Attacks as well, and T8 isn't bad just because it's no functional difference against Lascannons. S9 at 48" is a luxury I think the Imperium takes for granted. A lot of anti-vehicle is S7, S8, or just massed shots of lower S. T8 dreadnoughts also mean desperate S4 spam becomes grossly ineffective.

Making one target harder to kill than others influences your opponents decisions. Should I shoot at this T9 Raven Guard Leviathan closing in on me with my lascannons even though I'm hitting on 4s, wounding on 4s, and he gets a 4++ save? Or should I just shoot that predator?

And with Null Zone "never going off," the threat of it is still real. Jump pack libbys especially threaten a HUGE 18" area around them with their speed and the possibility of getting Null Zone off, and using it to mow down a hoard of daemons or murder a costly HQ who's squishy outside of his invul save is a threat your opponent will have to consider.

So bottom line is I don't think Librarians are bad. I wouldn't mind a point decrease (before CA they were way too taxing), but they're by no means bad.

jcd386 wrote:
I am curious what you guys are running lately, if you are even actually playing Marines.

Would it be out of place here ask people to list generally what you've been running, what parts you've found work, and what armies you've had a hard time against?

Ideally pure SM, but I'd be interested also in what you've been using as allies as well.

My latest list which I've been sticking too is a pure Raven Guard list with Kevin Shrike, Jump Libby, 3 Vanguard Veteran squads, 4 scout squads, 2 intercessors, 3 predators, and whatever other riff raff I can muster, usually an extra Captain and a Lieutenant to support my backline. Since I've used it I've been really lucky getting first turn, so I'm worried it will crumple if I ever go second. Kill Shot is a godlike stratagem that more than makes up the loss of Chapter Tactics, and I find shooty dreadnoughts too slow for my liking, and very difficult to reposition to find new targets.

The list is scary. The only downside is I usually give away a free point for Slay the Warlord since Shrike will almost always get stuck in. I'd like to try to play him more conservatively and let a dinky Captain land in his place, but the re-roll charge aura is way too strong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
And they're not showing up en masse to those hardcore tournaments! Weird.

There is actually a reason for that.

Also Hellblasters are super mediocre unless you're Dark Angels and able to Strategem them to greatness every turn.

Just because a unit isn't the best, most cost effective thing in the codex doesn't mean it's terrible. High, high, high level 40k isn't really what we should all strive to play, or we'd just be back to Gillman and his four birds. If the man says Repulsors are effective, then maybe you should drop it on the table one time and give it a shot. You can't determine a unit's effectiveness purely on paper; you gotta test it.

Do you play with three 10-men vv squads or with half squads ?

 godardc wrote:

Do you play with three 10-men vv squads or with half squads ?

I run 5 TH/SS and two squads of 4 stock Vanguard and Lightning Claw sergeants. I haven't ran them yet with double chainswords because I feel like it's kinda goofy and doesn't fit the fluff (plus finding right AND left handed chainswords means I need to dip into two sprues for each model), but I know it'll be more effective. I rarely use those pistols.

Do you get +1A for each chainsword?

Yes.

 Primark G wrote:
Do you get +1A for each chainsword?

Yup. That'd put a 5 man squad at 21 attacks for only 90 points, which isn't too shabby in my opinion.

It's good. Especially for BA.

Martel732 wrote:
It's good. Especially for BA.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/746294.page

Pls go. We don't tolerate that kind of heretical +1 to wound ty.

21 attacks is good in my tactical book!

 Primark G wrote:
Do you get +1A for each chainsword?

Do you actually own the codex or are you trolling at this point?

 Primark G wrote:
21 attacks is good in my tactical book!

Here's the only problem I'm having trouble avoiding.

A scenario:
You find a nice soft spot in the enemy flank, with squishy, high value targets, like heavy weapons teams.
You charge in, and roll beautifully, slaughtering every squishy guardsmen in the unit.
You are left standing in the middle of the now empty area, right in the middle of the Astra Militarum army.

First rank, fire.
Second rank, fire.

 SputnikDX wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It's good. Especially for BA.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/746294.page

Pls go. We don't tolerate that kind of heretical +1 to wound ty.

We are 90% identical! You are stuck with me. I probably have more experience at squeezing value out of the marine statline than most marine posters in here. You guys and your not-IG gunlines. Please.

Martel732 wrote:

 SputnikDX wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It's good. Especially for BA.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/746294.page

Pls go. We don't tolerate that kind of heretical +1 to wound ty.

We are 90% identical! You are stuck with me. I probably have more experience at squeezing value out of the marine statline than most marine posters in here. You guys and your not-IG gunlines. Please.

I'm just kidding. People think the pale skin is a defect of the geneseed, but really it's just salt. Why do Blood Angels get to have so many more jump pack characters than Raven Guard!

Yeah, that's dumb. But the jump priest is index only, so they might go away.

Also, why do BA ASM get melta and plasma, but not vanilla? We are still inferior to scions, but throw vanilla a bone!

Martel732 wrote:
Yeah, that's dumb. But the jump priest is index only, so they might go away.

Also, why do BA ASM get melta and plasma, but not vanilla? We are still inferior to scions, but throw vanilla a bone!

That's why the Angels Codices need to be rolled into the main codex. They're just not different enough to warrant a separate codex.

I've always wanted to put a Melta on my ASM squad. Since i first picked up SM when I started.

But then I still want to field ASM not VV, which the rules don't seem to appreciate.

Melta sucks in 8th. You're not missing much.

Bharring wrote:
I've always wanted to put a Melta on my ASM squad. Since i first picked up SM when I started.

But then I still want to field ASM not VV, which the rules don't seem to appreciate.

ASM jump packs should drop a point to be in line with Vets. Some reason Jump Packs are 3ppm for ASM and 2ppm for VV, which makes the choice super easy.

I see the VV with double chainswords as good for removing bubble wrap chaff.