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I find librarians are super fragile for their points cost. And the 24" denial range is frequently super problematic.

Similar idea but I tend to lean towards viel of time for that reroll 9inch charge and nullzone or occasionally might of heroes.
His main job is to help my vanguard vets or hammernators make that charge.
But I'll be the first to admit its not something I'd use in a tournament.

Though sadly that applys to about 80-90% of the vanilla marine codex.

I run a lib with my venerable dreadnought. The might of hero's boost is very useful to keep it alive as it charges forward looking to smash something hard. Otherwise I use null zone and smite.

Are there more flashy psychic powers out there? Yeah, but generic sm ones work just fine. But like others have said, make sure it has a job and stick to it, don't just grab one then go "it didn't do anything".

 Primark G wrote:
A back line Libby has value against meleecentric armies doing the same powers you mentioned. A critical denial can be a game winner.

True, I guess you're right. But Ultramarines should just take Sanctic Halo (or Tiggy) and Black Templars, well, yeah.

I do use the Santic Halo when I run a Captain.

 Primark G wrote:
I do use the Santic Halo when I run a Captain.

Then what's the point of a generic Librarian after that and Tiggy being ran?

Generic Librarians aren't good. At least in 7th there was a lot more variety so you could roll to do a specific job. With how powers work this edition and there only being one table for access, they don't do much.

I typically don’t run a Captain. The only psyker I bring is Tiggy but I do want to try out Eisenhorn.

I find it hard NOT to run a bike librarian. Null Zone can be to important to not take it. The casting or 8 is not all bad. You had better roll high to cast it because almost everything you really want it for will have a deny roll saved for it. The Bike gives me maximum maneuverability in placing the librarian in the right spot for the Null zone.

The points cost for the Libby is steep though. For 129pts he needs 2 denies. Also I found that pairing the Null Zone Libby with a Culexus (who forces -2 to the enemy deny roll) really helps.

DarthDiggler wrote:
I find it hard NOT to run a bike librarian. Null Zone can be to important to not take it. The casting or 8 is not all bad. You had better roll high to cast it because almost everything you really want it for will have a deny roll saved for it. The Bike gives me maximum maneuverability in placing the librarian in the right spot for the Null zone.

The points cost for the Libby is steep though. For 129pts he needs 2 denies. Also I found that pairing the Null Zone Libby with a Culexus (who forces -2 to the enemy deny roll) really helps.

I think the funny thing is that Null Zone being so hard to cast means it's even harder to deny. Enemy psykers need a deny test at the very minimum of 9, which is not an easy feat.

 SputnikDX wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:
I find it hard NOT to run a bike librarian. Null Zone can be to important to not take it. The casting or 8 is not all bad. You had better roll high to cast it because almost everything you really want it for will have a deny roll saved for it. The Bike gives me maximum maneuverability in placing the librarian in the right spot for the Null zone.

The points cost for the Libby is steep though. For 129pts he needs 2 denies. Also I found that pairing the Null Zone Libby with a Culexus (who forces -2 to the enemy deny roll) really helps.

I think the funny thing is that Null Zone being so hard to cast means it's even harder to deny. Enemy psykers need a deny test at the very minimum of 9, which is not an easy feat.

Null zone on harlequins or even custodes would probably make them cry assuming they didnt take some sort of psyker them selves. its too trolllicious not to take.

heros might only matters if some one brings some good ST8 or 9 shooting attacks before you have a chance to deal with it.

but default probably should be nullzone.

 Desubot wrote:


Null zone on harlequins or even custodes would probably make them cry assuming they didnt take some sort of psyker them selves. its too trolllicious not to take.

heros might only matters if some one brings some good ST8 or 9 shooting attacks before you have a chance to deal with it.

but default probably should be nullzone.

Might of Heroes is hella scary on HQs though. I already mentioned Shrike's 6 S5 LC attacks, but what about Salamander Gravis Captains with the toughness of Hive Tyrants? Or T9 Ironclads with 5 S14 chainfist attacks?

Null Zone is soooo goooood - it is a game winner against certain armies.

 Primark G wrote:
Null Zone is soooo goooood - it is a game winner against certain armies.

It's amazing watching someone so reliant on 3++ or 4++ just get told that they took 12 damage with no save. Null Zone + Thunder Hammers is a gift that keeps on giving.

And if you play a list that can go forward if it needs to or shoot if it needs to, you can use might of heroes either way.

Bottom line: librarians are decent. I don't think anyone's saying you must take one, but they work.

Librarians are weak, expensive, and have useless powers.
I mean, sure, Null Zone seems great ! I know this, but I have never ever passed it. Which is a shame as it could be so useful !
Might of heroes, on a tank ? Really ? So that my T8 predator can now be wounded on 3+ as my T7 predator by all the lascanons ?
Or the power to protect your units from mortal wound ? I mean, only psychic mortal wound. I mean only against psychic mortal wound on 4+ if you passed the power

They could make the powers really good, just by twerking them a little (all mortal wound, not just psy, and on +3 maybe), might of heroes targeting a unit (increase the cost to balance it), etc.

If you are going to use MoH to buff a tank it should be a land raider, repulsor or vindicator - you are doing it wrong that's all.

 Primark G wrote:
If you are going to use MoH to buff a tank it should be a land raider, repulsor or vindicator - you are doing it wrong that's all.

Or if its some filthy xeno scum with their weaker lascannons.
Or if you managed to tag all of their lascannons and all they are left with is random STR7 weapons.
Or that filthy ST7 DP with malific talons is eyeing that tank.

Yeah I typically start the game making one of my repulsors T9. Combining that with the armour of contempt stratagem if people try to smite it to death can make it soak a ton of enemy fire. It's a good way to absorb stuff like flyrant alpha strikes, especially when the enemy have -2" off their charge rolls if they want to go for a repulsor (which flyrants probably won't).

The repulsor does quite often still die, but not without taking a hell of a lot of killing. It's a sustainable loss at 2k, and puts me in a good position to hit back.

Mandragola wrote:
Yeah I typically start the game making one of my repulsors T9. Combining that with the armour of contempt stratagem if people try to smite it to death can make it soak a ton of enemy fire. It's a good way to absorb stuff like flyrant alpha strikes, especially when the enemy have -2" off their charge rolls if they want to go for a repulsor (which flyrants probably won't).

The repulsor does quite often still die, but not without taking a hell of a lot of killing. It's a sustainable loss at 2k, and puts me in a good position to hit back.

...OR They just ignore it because it isn't transporting anything good for the cost?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Yeah I typically start the game making one of my repulsors T9. Combining that with the armour of contempt stratagem if people try to smite it to death can make it soak a ton of enemy fire. It's a good way to absorb stuff like flyrant alpha strikes, especially when the enemy have -2" off their charge rolls if they want to go for a repulsor (which flyrants probably won't).

The repulsor does quite often still die, but not without taking a hell of a lot of killing. It's a sustainable loss at 2k, and puts me in a good position to hit back.

...OR They just ignore it because it isn't transporting anything good for the cost?

A repulsor is hard to ignore when it contains 10 hellblasters and shoots a bunch of lascannons and dakka at you. It’s downright distracting, honestly.

Repulsor aren’t rhinos or razorbacks. They are more like a cross between a land raider and a stormraven. People keep telling me they are useless but I seem to be able to compete at hardcore tournaments using them. Weird.

Mandragola wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Yeah I typically start the game making one of my repulsors T9. Combining that with the armour of contempt stratagem if people try to smite it to death can make it soak a ton of enemy fire. It's a good way to absorb stuff like flyrant alpha strikes, especially when the enemy have -2" off their charge rolls if they want to go for a repulsor (which flyrants probably won't).

The repulsor does quite often still die, but not without taking a hell of a lot of killing. It's a sustainable loss at 2k, and puts me in a good position to hit back.

...OR They just ignore it because it isn't transporting anything good for the cost?

A repulsor is hard to ignore when it contains 10 hellblasters and shoots a bunch of lascannons and dakka at you. It’s downright distracting, honestly.

Repulsor aren’t rhinos or razorbacks. They are more like a cross between a land raider and a stormraven. People keep telling me they are useless but I seem to be able to compete at hardcore tournaments using them. Weird.

And they're not showing up en masse to those hardcore tournaments! Weird.

There is actually a reason for that.

Also Hellblasters are super mediocre unless you're Dark Angels and able to Strategem them to greatness every turn.

Repulsors would be viable if the base cost were 100 pts less. They sjmply cost too much per wound atm. Even t9 does not make them efficient.

Hellblasters are great in ITC missions.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Yeah I typically start the game making one of my repulsors T9. Combining that with the armour of contempt stratagem if people try to smite it to death can make it soak a ton of enemy fire. It's a good way to absorb stuff like flyrant alpha strikes, especially when the enemy have -2" off their charge rolls if they want to go for a repulsor (which flyrants probably won't).

The repulsor does quite often still die, but not without taking a hell of a lot of killing. It's a sustainable loss at 2k, and puts me in a good position to hit back.

...OR They just ignore it because it isn't transporting anything good for the cost?

A repulsor is hard to ignore when it contains 10 hellblasters and shoots a bunch of lascannons and dakka at you. It’s downright distracting, honestly.

Repulsor aren’t rhinos or razorbacks. They are more like a cross between a land raider and a stormraven. People keep telling me they are useless but I seem to be able to compete at hardcore tournaments using them. Weird.

And they're not showing up en masse to those hardcore tournaments! Weird.

There is actually a reason for that.

Also Hellblasters are super mediocre unless you're Dark Angels and able to Strategem them to greatness every turn.

This is still the space marine thread, right?

Literally every unit in this army is mediocre.

 Primark G wrote:
Hellblasters are great in ITC missions.

They are mediocre. They need babysitters and get shut down hard by -1 to hit. They also have no way to start in reserve, which is a huge problem.

I play a modified gun line.

If I've got a bunch of 48" guns and/or indirect guns, your hellblasters are done. Predator autocannons slaughter them through the BA FNP banner even. Now if primaris got their own drop pods; then we'd be in business.

Do you understand how line of sight blocking terrain works in ITC? You can only shoot units in the first floor with indirect fire and I will be taking my 2+ cover saves.

I am curious what you guys are running lately, if you are even actually playing Marines.

Would it be out of place here ask people to list generally what you've been running, what parts you've found work, and what armies you've had a hard time against?

Ideally pure SM, but I'd be interested also in what you've been using as allies as well.

jcd386 wrote:
I am curious what you guys are running lately, if you are even actually playing Marines.

Would it be out of place here ask people to list generally what you've been running, what parts you've found work, and what armies you've had a hard time against?

Ideally pure SM, but I'd be interested also in what you've been using as allies as well.

I run either pure Iron Hands list, or a mixed Imperium list with Iron Hands and 3 Custodes Shield Captains on jetbike.
Pure Iron Hands list is not too terrible against soft Craftworlds or Tyranids list so far.
But still, I do struggle to keep up with those factions more often than not.
Addition of 3 Shield Captains on jetbike allows me to fight stronger factions on more or less equal footing.

But then again, I never faced lists spamming alaitoc dark reapers or hive tyrants.
Against these tourney winning lists, I would not stand a chance of putting up a good fight.