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Though me and my friends see no problem with this I thought I'd ask with you guys.
Before you all make assumptions, as I've heard of Nazi themed armies here being taken off or something to that affect, I have to say this is not Nazi themed 'exactly'.
The Orks are in black all with a red armband round the left upper arm. The pants braces are red, some arm bands and gloves are white. This is slightly enough of a reference to the Nazi uniform for people, after seeing them afew times, to realise.

That part pretty much everyone can agree is ok, it's just a paint scheme. The red arm band makes it slighty more obvious.
Now the idea was to have a red flag, with a white circle in the middle and four axes. The reference of this flag is clear but has a playful tone rather than serious/idolized. I've seen an Ork army at a games day have a communist flag in an orky style which everyone accepted.

Now do you think this is acceptable and that others will accept it as a joke against the Nazis, rather than glorifying them? In the same way Mel Brooks and other comedians do jokes on hitler and even have people dressed up as nazis, the recent one that springs to mind is Inglorious B******'s.

And then would it be too far to have an ork boss with a hitler moustache as a joke.

All of this seems ok to me but i dont know if it'd be ok to have this flamboyant hitler doing a heil salute aswell, that might be abit too far.

I'd like your thoughts and try to keep in mind it will be a joke theme, not a glorified one.

To be honest (in my own opinion) i would find it funny.
If anything you are mocking the nazi's, not making your own revolution army.
On guard i can see this being offensive.
but with orks, you can drag a certain playful humor from it and really take the piss out of nazi's.

But as ive said, peoples opinions can and will differ greatly.

This cannot end well.

Hush you, I'm bored on a Friday afternoon at work, I need some entertainment.

I'd lul.

I'd be fine with it on any army, to any extent of detail. But, then again, I think people look for excuses to get offended. Irreverence for anything and everything is key to remaining sane in today's environment of overly PC attitudes.

See, I'm making a Blood Axe army, which incorporates a lot of 'imperial' looking orks (see also german ww2 stylisation). But there's a difference between that and actual mimicry of the swastika or actual mimicry of Hitler... does the fact it's ork and therefore 'humorous' alleviate potential insult.

I saw a necromunda scene painted up once with redemptionists painted white with white hoods, lynching a darkskinned ratskin renegade to a tree surrounded by burning crosses topped with imperial eagles. I found it distasteful.

I'd suggest against it, I think that perhaps it can be seen as ridiculing a regime who murdered millions of people but there is also the risk it will be seen as ridiculing those very same people who were murdered. Err on the side of caution and steer clear of the symbols and the hitler-warboss.

MGS actually has a point here i guess, as i stated, not everyone will have the same opinion.
What may look like a piss take towards nazi's in 1 persons eyes may look highly offensive to another.

The symbol is OTT as MGS said, but if your keeping it, then turn it a few degrees so its not the same shape (as the swas was simply an origional icon, but turned at an angle)

If you've got to ask, you probably already know the answer...

I agree with Flagg07

I was going to make a unit of nazi orks about a year ago but decided it wasnt quite right... possibly funny? yeah i suppose so but not worth the risk... Im sure theres plenty of people who will not like the idea...

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I saw a necromunda scene painted up once with redemptionists painted white with white hoods, lynching a darkskinned ratskin renegade to a tree surrounded by burning crosses topped with imperial eagles. I found it distasteful.

I'd find that distasteful too. People will ask 'well then, why don't you find mockery of the Nazis distasteful'. I suggest to you that there's things you can make fun of, and those you can't within every subject like this.

Take for instance Little Nicky were Hitler has Pineapples shoved up his arse every day. Or Mel Brooks many Hitler comedies. In these he is either camp or simply ridiculed for being Hitler. They don't have him burning/killing Jews and make a joke of that, they simply make a joke of him and his regime at face value, not for their ideals.

This is what the ork army would be doing, looking like them aesthetically but making it more camp and ludicrous and thus insulting him in the same way Mel Brooks does, rather than the Necromunda army that shows actual imagery and doesn't make an effort to make them look comical.

The KKK could be insulted if say you have an army of white cloaked and hooded guys but they allhad pink hearts as their symbol.

I intend to 'camp up' my Orks in this similar fashion. (Pink Triangles/Rainbows anyone? =P)

Me personally I say it's entertaining and wouldn't be offended in the least. I don't think any of my jewish friends would find it offensive either. But like was stated earlier some people will go out of their way to be offended about anything. It's where our culture currently is unfortunately. Instead of staying open minded something people jump to conclusions.

For a long time I toyed with the idea of an anti-pc guard army but decided in the end it wouldn't be worth it since I live in SoCal and the odds that I would be asked never to show up with it again would be high in some of the game stores.

That being said that Necromunda gang is OTT. I would probably assume the guy was making a play on the imagery of the imperium but i would suggest to him that is probably not appropriate and remind him that people might not share his particular sense of humor.

I honestly wouldn't care. The German army had spiffy uniform's the Krieg guy's are so based off of German uniform's it's not even funny. And honestly if I saw a little guardsmen marching around doing the Nazi salute I would die loling.

@Flagg07 & Buttlerthepug

I asked because people are overly PC. It's usually people not involved in the pain who get offended. Hence Jewish people like Mel Brooks insulting Hitler so easily, or Black People playing up to stereotypes ironically. But usually if another race/group does it overly PC people see it as offensive.

I asked mostly though because GW is overly PC, I suppose it has to be as it's a company.

To avoid any misgivings with GW I'm not going to have anything even infering Insignia and I'm gonna have Hearts and Rainbows everywhere, I'm still considering a Mek with a hitler tache with maybe purple clothes or something else suitably camp.

Shadowbrand wrote:I honestly wouldn't care. The German army had spiffy uniform's the Krieg guy's are so based off of German uniform's it's not even funny. And honestly if I saw a little guardsmen marching around doing the Nazi salute I would die loling.

Krieg is a mix of German and French WW1 uniforms.

If I recall, the old Stormboys outfit was very similar to the WW2 German uniform.

Also, the Steel Legion is closer to WW2 Germans than the Death Korps (who are more WW1 Germany and France [Ninja'd]).

(Also, for some reason people who don't have a problem with the Soviet Hammer and Sickle will still have a problem with the Swastika.)

I don't think it's a problem as long as you're careful to land the right side of humourous so that nobody could mistake you for a white supremacist or something.

I'd punch whoever had that KKK army in the face. I really can't stand racism, it's just one of my pet peeves. That scene described is OTT, but your army doesn't sound bad, Taran. If you had a line of, say, guardsmen, in a line with an ork covering them with a gun, then I personally would get a little pissed (but not for fluff reasons that orks take no prisoners). I realize I may be overly touchy in some eyes, but there's a line between making fun of someone/thing and disrespecting their victims. I personally wouldn't bother starting an army like that, it just seems like a whole other can of worms, but that's just me. Your plan to make a parody of them sounds good enough though.

That's just my proverbial two cents.

Rico.

Tarondor wrote:@Flagg07 & Buttlerthepug

I asked because people are overly PC.

If you can handle the inevitable PC brigade, go ahead. Although as a rule real life and GW make poor bedfellows, so maybe going balls-to-the-wall Wermacht with swastikas is unnecessary, if only in terms of fluff retention.

Just a quick point here, but 40k is a place full of torture, genocide (on extreme levels) and other somewhat grueling actions.
I dont really see it as PC atall
If people are easily offended (by this i mean the OTT PC freaks) then i think they should stick with GI joe toys.

Edit: i know there is a limit which can be reached at times, but alot of the time people do it for the attention they gain.

People don't see Communism as bad as the Nazis, even though Deaths under Communist governments dwarf Nazi deaths. Especially being English the Nazi penetrated our culture much more as a force of evil and people are obsessed with them as they are fascinating and so have stayed in the conscience of people as ultimate evil. Saruman and the Urukai, Davros and the Daleks, Imperial Guard etc are all Nazis done in a serious way. Jokes against Nazis are also massively prevalent. Without iconography I dont think GW will be offended.

It’s all in how it’s presented if you ask me. If done as you say I would not have an issue with it. If there are conversions that bring it in line with historic brutality and hate then that’s an issue. Also I would stay away from historic icons and ensigna and like you mention use your own four axe symbol.

Orkeosaurus wrote:(Also, for some reason people who don't have a problem with the Soviet Hammer and Sickle will still have a problem with the Swastika.)

Methinks it's just how people have been raised. Most people are taught in school or learn from their parents to abhor the horrors the Nazi regime committed, while many people aren't as educated in the gritty, grisly facts of Communist Russia. Yes, Stalin is up there with Hitler and Landa on the Straight to Hell list, but I think it comes down to what people learn about in school and home.

Rico.

I think people are ok with the Imperial Guard being genocists of 10s of Billions of people because it's fantasy/escapist. The second real world iconography comes in people will be offended, even if you're showing how vile these people are and not making them cool, if its serious pretty much no one will accept it. But comedy tends to be the release of the people, and taking the piss out of Nazis should work, especially when OTT (hearts, rainbows, signs with 'free hugs' etc).

This topic also makes me think, what about if someone decided to make an army themed on Jewish rebel fighters during WWII. Would people see that as ok? (not doing it btw, just wanna see what you think.)

Judging from the recent film 'Inglourious Basterds', they'd be perfectly okay with it.

Because people who fight injustice are heroes. There's really no comparison between the two.

Tarondor wrote:This topic also makes me think, what about if someone decided to make an army themed on Jewish rebel fighters during WWII. Would people see that as ok? (not doing it btw, just wanna see what you think.)

I don't see what the problem is with that. That's actually historically accurate I believe, there were no doubt Jews who joined the Resistance to fight those who imprisoned and killed their fellows. Give them sten guns and civilian outfits and you've got a creative, unique army.

OT: Why do people say things are "Jewish" or call people "Jews" as an offensive term, whether they are or not? For the life of me I don't know why.

Rico.

Rico wrote:Most people are taught in school or learn from their parents to abhor the horrors the Nazi regime committed, while many people aren't as educated in the gritty, grisly facts of Communist Russia. Yes, Stalin is up there with Hitler and Landa on the Straight to Hell list, but I think it comes down to what people learn about in school and home.

Rico.

Huh? Rico you're American according to your flag, so you should know this is a bunch of BS. Or did all that anti-communism stuff in the 50's to late 80's NOT happen? Y'know, like McCarthy and his Lists while the American Nazi Party and Neo-Nazism flourished under protection from the VERY SAME CONGRESS McCarthy served on.

Hell, there are still people that feel that Communists(Frazzled and my Father -In-Law) are the greatest evil ever because that's how they were raised(Frazzled apparently refuses to buy anything made in Communist countries).

I think people would be offended by a Jewish Resistance 40k army, just because it's a touchy subject. Though I stick by thinking pretty much 100% of those offended would be non-Jewish, teenage, too left for their own good white kids who think being PC makes them a better person...

@Ricos OT: In the same way people from Pakistan or who look Pakistan are called Pakis, which has become an offensive word.

Jews or people of Jewish Heritage are called Jews offensively.

Black people are called N word (It's just a basterdisation of the word 'Black')

People use it in a new context, making it offensive even though it's fact.

Platuan4th wrote:

Rico wrote:Most people are taught in school or learn from their parents to abhor the horrors the Nazi regime committed, while many people aren't as educated in the gritty, grisly facts of Communist Russia. Yes, Stalin is up there with Hitler and Landa on the Straight to Hell list, but I think it comes down to what people learn about in school and home.

Rico.

Huh? Rico you're American according to your flag, so you should know this is a bunch of BS. Or did all that anti-communism stuff in the 50's to late 80's NOT happen? Y'know, like McCarthy and his Lists while the American Nazi Party and Neo-Nazism flourished under protection from the VERY SAME CONGRESS McCarthy served on.

Hell, there are still people that feel that Communists(Frazzled and my Father -In-Law) are the greatest evil ever because that's how they were raised(Frazzled apparently refuses to buy anything made in Communist countries).

In my defense, I'm fifteen I admit I am not as educated about the Cold War era, especially its effects in the US. My mistake : )

Rico.

Also, no one should ever play Black Legion Chaos Marines.