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I really havent given it a full checkout, but I mean 150 pts for a more versatile tactical squad? Sure you don't get the heavy weapon that you could split off, but I mean I play salamanders, and this seems to be MUCH more effective.

Also no ironclads.

Is this just the glow of a new codex? Or are they genuinely better than the core space marine dex? Because I'm tempted to just play my salamander army as space wolves.

BioRebel wrote:I really havent given it a full checkout, but I mean 150 pts for a more versatile tactical squad? Sure you don't get the heavy weapon that you could split off, but I mean I play salamanders, and this seems to be MUCH more effective.

Also no ironclads.

Is this just the glow of a new codex? Or are they genuinely better than the core space marine dex? Because I'm tempted to just play my salamander army as space wolves.

Salamanders and SWolfs play so differently its mind numbing you could seriously compare the two.

I really don't understand why you think Grey Hunters are so good. They are cheap because SW leaders and special units costs so much. Also, to get an actual "squad leader" in there you have to take a WG and give him to the GH squad so they either lose their ability to Drop Pod or Get in a Rhino or lose their 2nd special weapon. The only real option they have is just giving one GH MotW or a PF / PW and apart from MotW that's majorly sup-par. Also, they are LD8.

You almost can't take LR's in Space Wolves if you want to get a lot of the goodies. This is the glow of ignorance TBH. It's like comparing a new Eldar Codex with Dark Eldar. "WE CAN GET SWEET SEERCOUNCILSBROS!!" and the DA Saying "But we don't want them, we like our Skimmer spam!!".

Both armies have different playstyles. With a Vulcan list you use TH/SS termies in a LRR or LRC to be your big scary unit and spam MM/HF/Flamers throughout the list. With spacewolves, well, you don't.

yeah i agree, not only do the new space wolves look like they will be more effective (and interesting) to play with compared to regular SM armies, but of all the new mini's ive seen they are SO MUCH COOLER

It's not a better codex, just different. It provides a different style of play. Both are still competitive, and Vulkan Marines are not now suddenly trash simply because Grimnar can make terminators scoring.

sourclams wrote:It's not a better codex, just different. It provides a different style of play. Both are still competitive, and Vulkan Marines are not now suddenly trash simply because Grimnar can make terminators scoring.

EXACTLY!

Truthfully a Grimnar Terminator spam is fail. VERY Scarily deathwing do it better.

YTTH Tells it better than I could.

http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/09/analysis-master-crafting-loganwing-army.html


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Gorechild wrote:yeah i agree, not only do the new space wolves look like they will be more effective (and interesting) to play with compared to regular SM armies, but of all the new mini's ive seen they are SO MUCH COOLER

I'm thnking of useing the new book because it better fits my old play style of six guys in a razorback with a
vet serge and special weapons. Something you can't do in the current marine book as well.


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Oh, and I'm intrigued by the idea of a termie squad all packing pairs of powerfist.

Aduro wrote:
Oh, and I'm intrigued by the idea of a termie squad all packing pairs of powerfist.

I think a lot of people are looking at the new shinies and not realizing that they cost 53 points per model when you do this.

I'm not saying you CAN'T do this, but you will have one small army of glass hammers.

Ok, so perhaps it is just the shiny glow of a new codex. I don't know though... The GH squads kinda do what I've wanted my tactical squads to do.

TBH I really just want Salamanders to have their own dex. I would KILL to have a tac squad with a meltagun and a heavy flamer...

Tactical Marines are IMO better than Grey Hunters. Space Marines also have access to non-awful Assault and Bike squads, Thunderfire Cannons, Masters of the Forge, cheap Assault Terminators, Scout Bikers, Land Speeder Storms, etc.

Like others have said, the Wolves aren't better, just different.

The GH squads kinda do what I've wanted my tactical squads to do.

As a fellow Salamander player since the armageddon dex, I understand completely. But as pointed out, Grey Hunters still aren't quite right either. Maybe just try em out that way for the heck of it, for something new. Or put Vulkan on the shelf and try out the combat tactics and what not.

With a Vulcan list you use TH/SS termies in a LRR or LRC to be your big scary unit and spam MM/HF/Flamers throughout the list. With spacewolves, well, you don't.

Yawn. Used to be quite a few ways to play Salamanders. And it usually revolved around tactical squads and not a horde of speeders and terminators. Now all you see is the same crap. Say what you want about the SW dex, there's alot of ways to build a viable army.

There are lots of ways to play Space Marines as well.

winterman wrote:Yawn. Used to be quite a few ways to play Salamanders. And it usually revolved around tactical squads and not a horde of speeders and terminators. Now all you see is the same crap. Say what you want about the SW dex, there's alot of ways to build a viable army.

Uhm, a Vulkan list usually has 3 to 4 full tac squads, and only 1 terminator squad in a raider with Vulkan. And all marines have always had land speeders out the yin yang since 3rd edition, so I'm not sure what you're whining about.

EDIT:

And that's not even all your points in a 1750+ game, so there is still alot of variety to be had. Just as Fetterkey said, there are alot of ways to play marines.

Not to mention the popularity of Vulkan bikes now...

Melta is necessary in 5th and Vulkan force multiplies that effect....so not exactly shocking most competitive lists take him.

winterman wrote:

The GH squads kinda do what I've wanted my tactical squads to do.

As a fellow Salamander player since the armageddon dex, I understand completely. But as pointed out, Grey Hunters still aren't quite right either. Maybe just try em out that way for the heck of it, for something new. Or put Vulkan on the shelf and try out the combat tactics and what not.

With a Vulcan list you use TH/SS termies in a LRR or LRC to be your big scary unit and spam MM/HF/Flamers throughout the list. With spacewolves, well, you don't.

Yawn. Used to be quite a few ways to play Salamanders. And it usually revolved around tactical squads and not a horde of speeders and terminators. Now all you see is the same crap. Say what you want about the SW dex, there's alot of ways to build a viable army.

It's nice to hear that from a fellow salamander player.
but yea, I got my ass handed to me by veteran Wolf player who was trying out a list he built with the new store codex. Though it didnt help that for all my pens I rolled 1's and 2's.

I mean hell, just being able to give tactical squads a heavy flamer and swap those bolters for chainswords and bolt pistols would make vanilla marines SO MUCH BETTER.

My friends DA army is now a "Wolfwing" army. My Chaos Marines are about to become "Chaos Wolves." Yay for Wolfhammer 40k.

Note: This is a knee-jerk reaction. I'll see if I feel the same way in a month, but it's how I feel at the moment.

No. Tactical Marines aren't for assault.

Uhm, a Vulkan list usually has 3 to 4 full tac squads, and only 1 terminator squad in a raider with Vulkan. And all marines have always had land speeders out the yin yang since 3rd edition, so I'm not sure what you're whining about.

First of all, that was in the context of the guy I quoted -- so thanks for taking it out of context.

Any event, people take tacticals cause they have too. They are no longer an intergral part of the army in my opinion, take the minium you need for the points level and get as much MM/template and hammers as you can. Also, Salamanders have not been able to spam speeders till now. I know, things changed. I am just saying. I used to help mod and admin a Salamander forum, and none of us had a list that was even remotely the same. Not true anymore, at least my opinion of what I see day to day in forums and locally. It is just the nature of the marine dex and 5ed. Not bitching (and using the word crap was a mistake tbh), just commenting.

That said, I don't agree that the Space Wolves codex is better then the Space Marine codex. People are having the same knee-jerk reaction they always do when a new dex comes out. I do think there are more builds I am interested in then ones in the marine dex. But that is purely opinion.

I'm not basing my decision on nessisarly how effective it is by itself or compaired to the vanilla book. My marine army was built in the old books, six man squads in razorbacks with a vet serge and two special weapons. Sometimes I added in termies in a land raider or a unit of devistators. The new marine book pretty much killed my army as I played it. Never got around to redoing my stuff to fit the new rules. The wolf book looks like it will let me get my same army back out, having only to remove on special per squad. In return I get accute senses and counter charge.

The other thing that I get to fix is termie serges having power swords. My army has a big theme of power fists as a sign of rank and status. The idea of twin fist termies just seems really cool to me, even if I just do it for a serge fig.