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 nordsturmking wrote:
What do you guys think is the best ranged anti tank option in a soup list if can't take the Forgeworld stuff?

I am thinking about getting a Castellan but due to it most likely being nerfed in the upcoming big FAQ I don't want to waste my money.

Depends on what kind of tanks you’re trying to kill. Helverins are nice cause of their flat 3 damage and 72” range; I had a lot of success with a supreme command detachment of Leman Russ tank commanders (which replaced the knights in my list). I had battlecannons and plasma sponsons on mine and ran them as Tallarn so they could JSJ and keep up with my bikes without shooting penalties. I have also experimented with suicide drop plasma via scions.
I replaced the tank commanders with 3x Calidus tanks though, and I think the forgeworld options are just as good as anything you can get from another codex. BS2+ means almost all their shots hit and invul saves and a -1 to hit banner makes them fairly survivable. The only thing you can’t get from pure Custodes now is D6 damage at range, best we can do is flat 3.

 greyknight12 wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
What do you guys think is the best ranged anti tank option in a soup list if can't take the Forgeworld stuff?

I am thinking about getting a Castellan but due to it most likely being nerfed in the upcoming big FAQ I don't want to waste my money.

Depends on what kind of tanks you’re trying to kill. Helverins are nice cause of their flat 3 damage and 72” range; I had a lot of success with a supreme command detachment of Leman Russ tank commanders (which replaced the knights in my list). I had battlecannons and plasma sponsons on mine and ran them as Tallarn so they could JSJ and keep up with my bikes without shooting penalties. I have also experimented with suicide drop plasma via scions.
I replaced the tank commanders with 3x Calidus tanks though, and I think the forgeworld options are just as good as anything you can get from another codex. BS2+ means almost all their shots hit and invul saves and a -1 to hit banner makes them fairly survivable. The only thing you can’t get from pure Custodes now is D6 damage at range, best we can do is flat 3.

Thanks for your input. The tank commander look really good. How do you get the Helverins range up to 72" the normal range is 60? The problem is the FW Beta rules are not allowed at the tournament i want to attend.

 nordsturmking wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
What do you guys think is the best ranged anti tank option in a soup list if can't take the Forgeworld stuff?

I am thinking about getting a Castellan but due to it most likely being nerfed in the upcoming big FAQ I don't want to waste my money.

Depends on what kind of tanks you’re trying to kill. Helverins are nice cause of their flat 3 damage and 72” range; I had a lot of success with a supreme command detachment of Leman Russ tank commanders (which replaced the knights in my list). I had battlecannons and plasma sponsons on mine and ran them as Tallarn so they could JSJ and keep up with my bikes without shooting penalties. I have also experimented with suicide drop plasma via scions.
I replaced the tank commanders with 3x Calidus tanks though, and I think the forgeworld options are just as good as anything you can get from another codex. BS2+ means almost all their shots hit and invul saves and a -1 to hit banner makes them fairly survivable. The only thing you can’t get from pure Custodes now is D6 damage at range, best we can do is flat 3.

Thanks for your input. The tank commander look really good. How do you get the Helverins range up to 72" the normal range is 60? The problem is the FW Beta rules are not allowed at the tournament i want to attend.

They can move and shoot with no penalties.

Ah ^^ yes thats right.

what would you take in your custodes soup 32 AM or the Ad Mech?

If we're talking soup and no FW, the single best tank killer is the Castellan. How was this missed? Cawl's Wrath and the Volcano Lance can each destroy whatever you want that doesn't have an invulnerable.

I am 99% confident it's not getting a Nerf in this FAQ. They had many opportunities to nerf it and chose not to. They've also said they're mostly keeping points out of the FAQ's. You might see a tweak to relics or a warlord trait. That's about it I'd say.

I think I would actually take a Krast Crusader instead.

Speaking from experience you simply don't have the CP to effectively use the Castellan when playing Custodes, even with the loyal 32 added in.

 Ordana wrote:
I think I would actually take a Krast Crusader instead.

Speaking from experience you simply don't have the CP to effectively use the Castellan when playing Custodes, even with the loyal 32 added in.

Depends what you take. Footstodes are far less CP hungry than their Jetbike counterparts (assuming we aren't touching Allarus cause they're not very good in general). You can also run a Custodes Battalion + a Super-Heavy of 2 Armigers and a Castellan For about 1,650. That's 11 CP, 350 points to spare (for if you want even more CP or bells and whistles) and you don't have to spend 2 CP on upgrading the Castellan: he can just be your Warlord. Just shoulder the mantle if he dies.

In general, I also think it's cheaper to let him get shot at without Rotate for the first and second turn. With a 4++ he usually still won't die and it's cheaper to just Machine Spirit Resurgent him if he brackets.

Audustum wrote:
I am 99% confident it's not getting a Nerf in this FAQ. They had many opportunities to nerf it and chose not to. They've also said they're mostly keeping points out of the FAQ's. You might see a tweak to relics or a warlord trait. That's about it I'd say.

Geoff on frontline’s podcast strongly implied that the Castellan would be getting a bit of a hike and knights would be capped at a 4++. That said, I agree that it’s offensive power is still phenomenal.

 greyknight12 wrote:

Audustum wrote:
I am 99% confident it's not getting a Nerf in this FAQ. They had many opportunities to nerf it and chose not to. They've also said they're mostly keeping points out of the FAQ's. You might see a tweak to relics or a warlord trait. That's about it I'd say.

Geoff on frontline’s podcast strongly implied that the Castellan would be getting a bit of a hike and knights would be capped at a 4++. That said, I agree that it’s offensive power is still phenomenal.

Geoff also thought the Galatus would have like +5S on the sword so sometimes his info's a bit off, even when he's direct. That said, as long as it's only a marginal change you're right: still a amazing anti-tank unit.

 nordsturmking wrote:
what would you take in your custodes soup 32 AM or the Ad Mech?

Loyal 32 are generally considered more durable and flexible due to more bodies and orders, though if you’re taking knights the enginseers have some merit. AM detachments also open up a ton of useful options. However, super non-standard opinion:

Take a scion battalion armed up with plasma, or some tanks, or something that increases your firepower more than a bunch of lasguns. Sure it adds CP, but Custodes don’t need much. With ITC being commonplace, a loyal 32 is a real easy way to guarantee your opponent 5 “kill one” points that are a lot harder to get if you’re shooting at -1 to hit 3++ Custodian Guard.

 greyknight12 wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
what would you take in your custodes soup 32 AM or the Ad Mech?

Loyal 32 are generally considered more durable and flexible due to more bodies and orders, though if you’re taking knights the enginseers have some merit. AM detachments also open up a ton of useful options. However, super non-standard opinion:

Take a scion battalion armed up with plasma, or some tanks, or something that increases your firepower more than a bunch of lasguns. Sure it adds CP, but Custodes don’t need much. With ITC being commonplace, a loyal 32 is a real easy way to guarantee your opponent 5 “kill one” points that are a lot harder to get if you’re shooting at -1 to hit 3++ Custodian Guard.

I'm +1'ing this non-standard opinion.

I mean, everyone can ditch the loyal 32 and get an extra dawneagle captain and 5 Misericordia for the points.

If your using the new assassin strat though (and you probably should) you might need a few more CP. It also doesn't hurt to get victor of the blood games on any of your characters if you can afford it. 2 CP for rerolls all game is kinda good even if you only make it to turn 3.

Twin Lascannons didn't get a point reduction for custodes in the CA. Are they still 50 point each?

 _SeeD_ wrote:
Twin Lascannons didn't get a point reduction for custodes in the CA. Are they still 50 point each?

Yes unfortunately a Venerable Land Raider is still 334pts.

 greyknight12 wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
what would you take in your custodes soup 32 AM or the Ad Mech?

Loyal 32 are generally considered more durable and flexible due to more bodies and orders, though if you’re taking knights the enginseers have some merit. AM detachments also open up a ton of useful options. However, super non-standard opinion:

Take a scion battalion armed up with plasma, or some tanks, or something that increases your firepower more than a bunch of lasguns. Sure it adds CP, but Custodes don’t need much. With ITC being commonplace, a loyal 32 is a real easy way to guarantee your opponent 5 “kill one” points that are a lot harder to get if you’re shooting at -1 to hit 3++ Custodian Guard.

Cannot agree with this more. An MSU Scion drop batallion is 300 points, but gives you 3x5 plasma shots (4 of which can generate additional shots on the drop thanks to their regimental tactics). You get the same amount of CP.

You'll still be giving up kill points, but your chances of deleting one to two big targets (or crippling a big-un) is well worth the trade off. They're a staple in most of my lists.

So venatari? concensus yet?

Venatari are good to take in an outrider detachment as they are cheaper than a squad of 3 bikes.

Their best use is character hunting/backfield harassment.

Basically if you wanna use a larger squad of bikes to take advantage of swooping dive and the strat that gives +1 attack for each guy in the squad that died, then you take 2 squads of 3 venatari and an 8-9 man dawneagle squad in an outrider.


The dawneagles will be your main force, charging up the field with a captain and on turns 2-3 your venatari can drop in behind buffer's/psychers and hopefully pop a cap in em.

I would take a Pallas over Venatari if you're just trying to cheaply field an Outrider.

pallas is cheaper, but i'd say the venetari are more useful overall.

The only time the pallas shines is as a roadblock and for target saturation purpose's if your fielding a lot of vehicles.

They certainly are cheap for what they do and I like them, but 1 or 2 of them wont do much of anything without considering the rest of your army.

Venatari are a fairly decent standalone unit that don't rely on anything else to get their job done.

Not quite tactics but what size magnets do you use to magnetize Telemons weapons?

Araablane wrote:
Not quite tactics but what size magnets do you use to magnetize Telemons weapons?

These were the perfect size:


What do people think is the best loadout for the Beta Caladius tanks? The Arachnus Blaze cannons?

Accelerator cannons all the way. 8 multi-damage shots at -3 AP is way better than 2 lascannon shots or 12 uncharged plasma shots.
EDIT: The Telemon does the blaze cannons better since it doubles the amount of anti-vehicle shots if you like the dual profile idea.

I am going to a big Tournament. I want to play custodes as my main faction and i really like the bikes.
I tried a list with 16 bikes but the custodes really need some anti-tank fire power.
FW-beta rules are not allowed.
And with Custodes my main concern are tau and knights.

The liste i now want to use is

3x3 bikes
1 x shield captain on bike
1 x Vexilus preator
1 x Castellan
and the loyal 32

I would have 5 CP at the start of the game

What do you think?

You would have 9 CP actually with that list. Are you spending 4 on VotBG and some on the knight?

Honestly the castellan is all the anti-tank you'll ever need. You are a bit light on CP but its because you took the bikes.

If you really want to fuel your castellan properly, you would need a guard brigade, the castellan, and a Supreme command detachment with 2 bike captains (both with a 3++) and a termy captain.

Wont even need a vexilla at that point.

Very rare to see that many bikes and a castellan.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
You would have 9 CP actually with that list. Are you spending 4 on VotBG and some on the knight?

Honestly the castellan is all the anti-tank you'll ever need. You are a bit light on CP but its because you took the bikes.

If you really want to fuel your castellan properly, you would need a guard brigade, the castellan, and a Supreme command detachment with 2 bike captains (both with a 3++) and a termy captain.

Wont even need a vexilla at that point.

Very rare to see that many bikes and a castellan.

Rare but MUCH more optimal if you're not taking a whole Guard Brigade. There's nothing stopping you from winning an event with his list.

How would you recommend building a 1550 pts list, i currently have:

Telemon
Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought
Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought
Shield Captain
And some ad-mech models lying around for Rusty 17.

What kind of list i could make for a casual play with these, i want something to build up quickly and start playing.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
You would have 9 CP actually with that list. Are you spending 4 on VotBG and some on the knight?

Honestly the castellan is all the anti-tank you'll ever need. You are a bit light on CP but its because you took the bikes.

If you really want to fuel your castellan properly, you would need a guard brigade, the castellan, and a Supreme command detachment with 2 bike captains (both with a 3++) and a termy captain.

Wont even need a vexilla at that point.

Very rare to see that many bikes and a castellan.

Thanks for the feedback I will spent 2 CP on the Castellan giving him iron bulwak and the relic plasma gun.
1 CP for the Assasin
1CP the auric aquils

I might be able to get some CP during the game with a Vindicare. And with the company commander i will get a few more.

Hopefully the Castellan will not be nerfed into the ground and still be playable.

 nordsturmking wrote:
I am going to a big Tournament. I want to play custodes as my main faction and i really like the bikes.
I tried a list with 16 bikes but the custodes really need some anti-tank fire power.
FW-beta rules are not allowed.
And with Custodes my main concern are tau and knights.

The liste i now want to use is

3x3 bikes
1 x shield captain on bike
1 x Vexilus preator
1 x Castellan
and the loyal 32

I would have 5 CP at the start of the game

What do you think?

I've played basically this exact same list for a while. Instead of an assassin I took 9 Mortars tho cause the new assassins rules weren't a thing yet.
I would drop the relic bike as a standard thing to take. You want a guaranteed 6 CP so you can get 2 uses of Order of Companions/Rotate Ion Shield.

 Ordana wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
I am going to a big Tournament. I want to play custodes as my main faction and i really like the bikes.
I tried a list with 16 bikes but the custodes really need some anti-tank fire power.
FW-beta rules are not allowed.
And with Custodes my main concern are tau and knights.

The liste i now want to use is

3x3 bikes
1 x shield captain on bike
1 x Vexilus preator
1 x Castellan
and the loyal 32

I would have 5 CP at the start of the game

What do you think?

I've played basically this exact same list for a while. Instead of an assassin I took 9 Mortars tho cause the new assassins rules weren't a thing yet.
I would drop the relic bike as a standard thing to take. You want a guaranteed 6 CP so you can get 2 uses of Order of Companions/Rotate Ion Shield.

This is my experience, but I find it's usually better to scrap Rotate entirely and just lean on Machine Spirit Resurgent. Few things kill a 4++ Knight in 1 round and you would have to Machine Spirit Resurgent 3 times to equal the cost of a single Rotate. The 3 turns it gives him generally lets him do whatever I need him to do before he explodes and, if he does it in less than 3 uses of Resurgent, I get a spare CP or two for re-rolls.

I used to think that. Then I lost my Castellan 2 games in a row in turn 1. First to an Assault cannon Contemptor + Stom cannon Leviathan and then to a Krast Crusader.

Its not worth the risk to losing it.