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I'm quite liking the new Skaven "look". It's a bit cartoony, but it's a lot better than the squashed heads of the older skaven plastics. Which presents kind of a problem, the Plague Monks now look horribly dated and despite the truly awesome Plague Furnace, I can't bring myself to collect Clan Pestilens. I have a similar problem with the Gutter Runners. They suddenly look very average and I've always liked Clan Eshin too.

What other armies do you think currently suffer from a style clash due to outdated miniatures in the range?

In recent years they seem to have gone for a harsher, more exaggerated sculpt with many figures giving them large sharp edges, especially wih things like orks. It's in the Marines and some chaos too. They aren't like the more realistic (as far as GW goes) and understated figures of 10+ years ago like say, Sisters of Battle. I quite like both styles and I don't see it as a "problem", but they are distinctly different.

Something I would describe as "a problem" is the age of some figures still being produced. There's a definate scale creep in recent years, Terminators have grown so much they needed a base size increase but as is widely acknowledged, Abaddon the Despoiler who was once one of the larger and more impressive figures is now dwarfed by even your average Terminator. That' not right. Other characters in Terminator like Typus are fairly colossal, but Abaddon is undersized and a noticably cruder sculpt compared to everything else in the Chaos lists.

When they did that 13th Black Crusade thing a few years back I though it was almost a guarantee that they would use it as an opportunity to rerelease Abaddon. I was quite suprised when they didn't, they missed a trick there IMO.

Comparing Plague Bearers to the new Bloodletters?

Eldar Jetbikes to Guardians?

BA characters to newer marines (except the only problem with Dante is the size. I love the model)

Orks with the Warbuggies and Wartrakks.

Mmm, the new skaven are indeed tasty. I never liked the plague monk models, even when they were released, but I dont see them being redone anytime soon.

I want to do a skaven army, but funds are low, so Im going to stay with my other projects until skaven wave 2, when well hopefully see plastic weapons teams!

I love the whole 'sweeping forward' thing that theyre doing with the new models, first seen in the VC range, and very evident with the screaming bell. New weapons, id imagine, will have this feature.

Also dont want to pay £7 each for globadiers...

Deffinetly agree on the Orks/warbuggies wartraks. The new ORks look just awesome IMO, but those buggies. Id never use them, they MIGHT be good in a build, but they just look awful compared to modern Orks

The buggy itself is fine, it's just the crew that let it down. Swapping the heads helps a lot.

Eldar Jetbikes are probably the biggest stand-out for me. Well, and pretty much the entire Dark Eldar range...


I'd also really love to see GW overhaul the entire range and bring everything into a consistent scale... but that's just a pipe-dream.

A good moder will always try to incorporate new and old, into their projects as for those that are not too familiar with all the models can generally spot them a mile off. Which in turn make army a little bit unique, and stand out from the crowd at tournaments and events.

Plus surfing eBay to find them is always fun.

Personally I like the older ones better. I cannot see myself buying these new ones.

Yea, but some of the old school things I like, and prefer. Personally I LOVE the 2nd edition SM powerfist. Its so cool looking to me *and much smaller I might add lol* I used it on my SM chapter master to hold his big ass hammer.
But its VERY pick and choose for me. I rather like the new stuff tho, its so cool looking

I can't think of many old models I prefer over new (except space marine lightning claws, they go without saying)

I remember being horrified by the 2nd Edition Striking Scorpion sculpts (one of them appeared to be holding his ankle for some reason) and just hung onto my original ones. Then the 3rd Edition Scorpions came out and they were just that much better than the originals.

I was also concerned when I heard they were doing a new Deathmaster Snickh, the original version quite rightly being nominated as one of the 25 greatest warhammer minis of all time. And then they went an topped it with a truly dynamic sculpt which for me is a must have model regardless of whether you collect Skaven or not.

A trend I've noticed with new models vs old is that the newer models are generally larger than their older counterparts especially when it comes to the Imperial Guard. Ogryns, ratlings, plastic infantry, etc. are all larger than their previous counterparts: GW must go for the 'bigger is better' mindset.

Pewter Cadian players probably had a huge 'style clash' when the plastics finally rolled around. They don't even look that similar and the old style imo was much more cartoony looking. I believe the plastics are also bigger as well.

One very good thing that GW is doing is moving towards a more dynamic approach to sculpting. The older metals have that flat and squashed look, very obviously 2d for ease of casting.

I know a lot of people have a fondness for older things that were probably their first (I know I like the old hunchback chaos warriors in fantasy, as nice as the new line is) but I really think that GW is moving in a very good direction with the sculpts. In general...

I massively prefer some of the very very cool Chaos Warrior models of days gone by to the more generic plastics you get these days. I have a bunch of old models that I would really like to use as Chosen. Almost everything else in the Chaos line is better newer.

I prefer the old Eldar Harlequins to the new ones, even though both are Jes Goodwin sculpts, I think. The Banshee and Hawk models, I prefer the old, Reaper, Avenger, no preference, Scorpions I prefer the new. Guardians have improved immeasurebly and the above-mentioned jetbikes are, I agree, very outdated.

Almost all Orks have been updated, but old Orks look VERY out of place in new armies.

Marines I think have evolved over time, and there are good examples throughout.

Flashman wrote: the Plague Monks now look horribly dated

*These* are "horriby dated"?

Really?

Ok, maybe not horribly, but their style jars with the new clanrats and stormvermin. I find myself needing to see two oversized front teeth on my skaven miniatures these days.

But you said "horribly"...

And they do have two oversized front teeth.

Can't be bothered to put a pic up, but the new rats are definitely all about the front two gnashers.

And I humbly apologise to the plague monks for using the word horribly.

They're just upset because you didn't comment on their smell while you were at it.

But yeah, I've seen the new kits, I know what you mean.

Howard A Treesong wrote:In recent years they seem to have gone for a harsher, more exaggerated sculpt with many figures giving them large sharp edges, especially wih things like orks. It's in the Marines and some chaos too. They aren't like the more realistic (as far as GW goes) and understated figures of 10+ years ago like say, Sisters of Battle. I quite like both styles and I don't see it as a "problem", but they are distinctly different.

I agree with the above quote! And with the OP, there is definitely a style "clash" that becomes apparent when you have a mix of models; some of them work together better than others. But I definitely think you can mix and match; it just depends on which models you choose.

The Dwarfs suffer from being given shittier and shittier models over the years! They peaked in the eighties/early nineties and went downhill towards the horrible smallnosed vikinghell they're suffering from at the moment...

Sp0n wrote:The Dwarfs suffer from being given shittier and shittier models over the years! They peaked in the eighties/early nineties and went downhill towards the horrible smallnosed vikinghell they're suffering from at the moment...

QFT! Well, I suppose that they do have their very own distinctive look. IMO, The Lord of the Rings miniatures range wins hands down with the look of the dwarfs. Yes, they're out of scale compared to Warhammer, but they're so much better looking!

kingCracker wrote:Personally I LOVE the 2nd edition SM powerfist. Its so cool looking to me *and much smaller I might add lol*

I agree 100% with you there! I hate how Powerfists look on Marines. They're way too big! The best plastic Powerfist that I've seen recently is from the Cadian/Catachan (I think) Command Boxes... And let's not forget that a Powerfist is "better" than a Lightning Claw. Oh please. You mean that a Powerfist with huge fething claws sticking out of it isn't better, and that it "costs" less? How about that Chainfist, too?

*Punch! Snap!*

"Errr, Sergeant..."

"Yes, Brother Marine Homeboy?"

"I've broken my Chainfist again."

I mean, how is a chainsword blade going to make any difference against bleeding tank armour, I tell you! RAGE!!!

Also, I know that Commissar Yarrick has always had a giant Powerclaw in life and fluff, but seriously - It ridiculously massive! (Even for something that is charecteristically big anyway.)

Jimi Nemesis wrote:Orks with the Warbuggies and Wartrakks.

You're totally right. The old Ork vehicles are too nice and clean. I really hope that those kits get replaced in the VERY near future (even though I don't collect Orks). I just don't see them being used by people, or unless they're HEAVILY converted, that is.

In terms of a consistent scale, Fantasy is doing much better. Starting with the Skull Pass Gobbo's, they really have nailed down a scale.

For example, the new Skellies are the right size to have burst out of an Empire Soldier, and the new Skaven (which have height variance!) are suitably weedy and feral feel to them.

Give it time, and I'd imagine that all the Fantasy range will be tied to this scale.

Flashman wrote:I remember being horrified by the 2nd Edition Striking Scorpion sculpts (one of them appeared to be holding his ankle for some reason) and just hung onto my original ones.

That would be the 3rd Ed Scorpions, which were sculpted either by Gary Morley or by Juan Diaz during his 'training' by Morley.

The 2nd ed Scorpions were Goodwin sculpts, and aside from being a little static by today's standards, were superb sculpts.

The current models were released with the 4th ed codex.

insaniak wrote:

Flashman wrote:I remember being horrified by the 2nd Edition Striking Scorpion sculpts (one of them appeared to be holding his ankle for some reason) and just hung onto my original ones.

That would be the 3rd Ed Scorpions, which were sculpted either by Gary Morley or by Juan Diaz during his 'training' by Morley.

The 2nd ed Scorpions were Goodwin sculpts, and aside from being a little static by today's standards, were superb sculpts.

The current models were released with the 4th ed codex.

I was talking in terms of the version no. of the model as opposed to attaching the sculpts to a particular edition of 40K. The 1st Scorpions (which you have called 2nd Edition) were actually released back in the Rogue Trader days.

Not trying to be pedantic, just illustrating what I meant originally.

Anyway, that's another crime on Morley's charge sheet. Can't believe Diaz even as a trainee was responsible for that rubbish.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Flashman wrote: the Plague Monks now look horribly dated

*These* are "horriby dated"?

Really?

I was kinda with JHDD. I think the plague monks look fine, and match up well with the new skaven. I actually thought about using plague monks for regular clan rats prior to finding out about the new stuff!

At least the Plague Monks look like rats, and not big-hand monkey-dogs.

It really depends on the models.

I tend to like a lot of the older stuff (the RT Chaos Legionnaires, who, you know, actually look chaotic instead of the crap we're given today. Oh no! Space Marines...with spikes!), a lot of the models have a lot more character and flavor to them.

A lot of the models today look a lot better, sure, but they just don't have the same feel.

Yes I didn't play back then but when I first looked up warhammer I saw the Rogue Trader stuff and as such it's what I've always identified with.

But some models just look a lot better. Pretty much all the Eldar aspect warriors look a lot better. I like the old Wraithlord though.

Let's see here...all of the new plastic and metal catachans kick a lot of butt.

For reference, the more stylized and cartoony it is, the better it is in my opinion.

However I don't like the monkey hand elves in WFB though.

I second Vladsimpaler's opinion on the Rogue Trader Chaos marine sculpts--the fluff said that the armor warped and twisted around the marine, and the models look like their armor has warped and twisted around them.

For almost all of the Chaos models which have had three versions, I don't really like the middle sculpts, and the only exception of which I can think at the moment is the Flamer of Tzeentch. The only saving grace for the original flying mushroom turret Flamers is that the look exceedingly silly, and I do like the beaked second sculpt and the huge giant flames third sculpt flamers.

Back on topic, I think that the current plaguebearers look fine next to plastic daemons. As far as I can tell, the only thing GW really changed from the first set of sculpts to the second set of sculpts for the plaguebearers were the instruments, the icons, and the swords, the look and size of the plaguebearers themselves has pretty much remained constant. They might clash visually with the other lesser daemons, but they've always clashed visually with the other daemons. Why wouldn't that be intentional?

Do I need to mention the awful new plastic Daemonettes? The old ones were vastly superior, and actually seemed like 40k's answer to Succubi, but they've been replaced with what looks like a bunch of creepy old transsexuals.

Yes, good call Cheese. Wasn't there some reason that forced GW to change the style of the Daemonettes? I'd heard they were too close in design to miniatures from another company.