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This has been nagging at me for a while now; Long Fangs are the first truly good heavy weapons team I've seen outside of Lootas. They provide the unique ability to split heavy weapons fire, but more importantly they do it affordably. This gives you a reason to take them against other choices while remaining balanced. Do you think we'll see this template replicated for other Marine armies, to replace and update Devastators and Havocs?

I dont think other races should have 'split fire', but I do think that Heavy weapon units could see a decrease in the price of their weapons. (Havocs into line with CSM, Devs as SM +10p)

They should do something unique with all the races: static heavy weapon squads.

But I'm not 'for' static heavy weapon squads personally. I do like keeping everything mobile.

... err what about Eldar? Dark reapers can be devastating ... I've also got a fond spot for Support weapons batteries (see D-, Vibro & shadow wiever cannons) (Artillery are good as infantry mounted)

When i run a D-Cannon or 3 people seem to keep at least 24" away until its dead it may only be a small blast each cannon but wounds every thing on a 2+ and being AP2 no save. When you guide it you'll hit 5/9th of the time.
... ok glass hammer but then this is eldar most things are

By Russ, you mean different armies have different strengths and weaknesses?

What next, different points costs and saves other than 3+?

I don't like what I don't like.
I didn't mean to use a semicolon in my previous post, but an apostrophe.
So I didn’t mean that they needed static hvy weapons, but that they needed to differentiate them and make them each unique (not just weapon wise).

Re: Dark Reapers/Support weapons share several things I don’t like:
-Static, Non-scoring, Dawn of War set ups, Low Model Count/Fragile, gimmicky AP on reaper launcher, takes a hvy support choice that could have been a prism.

Weavers are long range nice, but low BS means more scattering and nul AP means less used for vehicles and more vs. infantry, but I’ve never had issues with infantry.
Vibro…sounds to much like Vibrator…and they look it, so hell no there.
Though it’s a cool weapon, it doesn’t have the range to be consistant and it needs angled shots, which means setting up on sides, which also mean risky to outflankers and covering less area.
D-Cannon: meh to the high powered attack, just a blast weapon and is relatively short ranged.

I run an nearly all jetbike Eldar army…jetbikes and grav tanks…so all the foot stuff is generally out of the question…nor do I like them.

My Chaos army: I run oblits, for flexibility and are able to keep mobile and continue to fire.

My ‘hvy support’ in my SM biker army comes in the form of Multi-Melta attack bikes and the hvy bolter variant….fast, killy, and cheap.

/shrug.

I kind of hope it does happen that Havoks/Devastators/Retributors do get their price brought more in line with the basic troops, plus any benefits from targeters or whatever special gear they get. I really think that GW overcosts the tradeoff between extra heavy weapons vs valuable heavy slot and not scoring.

The only thing they need to do is make the infantry scoring. 80 points on my havocs for 4x Autocannons/Missles is pretty cheap, especially because theyre a great close combat unit on their own. Havocs already are the best Av10, 11, and 12 long range killers CSM have, and decreasing their point value would just make them overpowered.

Cant comment on Devs. However, they do get plasma cannons.

Sanctjud just want to point out you can make Support weapons batteries BS4 buy simply taking a warlock ... combined with multiple barrage rules I find them to be competitive (not as good as fireprism but then that would be asking alot of them), I've decimated units with both D-cannons and Shadow weavers. ... Vibro's (¬_¬ damned mental image) don't work as well in 5th but can have a place.

Hmmm. I think that's an iffy post about getting BS 4 support batteries.

I'll have to go home and check the rulebook/faq/rulebooks...but I don't think that's right.
/shrug.

Sanctjud wrote:Hmmm. I think that's an iffy post about getting BS 4 support batteries.

I'll have to go home and check the rulebook/faq/rulebooks...but I don't think that's right.
/shrug.

Its the one of new rules for artillery.

BGB page55 Artillery, The Unit, second paragraph wrote:"Sometimes the player has the choice of adding leaders or additional models to the crew of an artillery unit. These models are part of the crew in all respects and may operate the guns as normal, even if they are otherwise slightly different from the rest of the crew. Independent characters that join the unit, however, do not count as crew and cannot operate the gun"

The other new rule is that any one not firing an artillery piece may fire their own weapon at another unit.

I don't real think that they will update it where normal marines devastator will work as SW's Long Fang. Because that Long Fangs are limited to 5 unit while normal SM devastator are limited to 10 unit. It is true that Long Fangs are more cheaper but problem is that they are easier to destroy than a full squad of SM devastator even they are limited to 4 heavy weapons.

Actually, it's 6 strong and 5 heavies now, but still easier to kill

The trend seems to be for more assault weapons in troops squads and more heavy weapons teams elsewhere in the army list, perhaps they will make the support weapons teams better to justify taking them. (Vanilla marines are probably going to keep the free heavy weapon though, due to combat squads)

Devestators did get a boost, with the Signum. Now, the Seargent can grant one member BS 5. We can also Combat Squad, which allows to fire at separate targets.

Also, squad size is still 5-10. You could use Devestator squads as 5 man 4 heavy weapon teams, but then you loose ~45 points per wound taken. Extra Devestators are taken for resilience, and to allow Combat Squadding.

Long Fangs are great, I think. They get more heavy weapons, and they can split fire freely to represent that Individual Warrior aspect of the Wolves. I'm certainly jealous, but I wouldn't suggest a change.

The problem with all static heavy weapon teams are cover saves.. That alone killed devastators, dark reapers and all the rest really.. Then they also became non-scoring which sucked..

However due to the change to mech Ive found long fangs atleast extremely useful.. Easy to kill tons of transports with them.

Dev squad weapons need to be cheaper or they need to make it so you can fire heavies after getting out of a transport so that you could atleast reposition them realistically