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So I've been toying with two HWS Mortar squads of late. I was a bit worried that they lacjed enough punch to do much damage but I found I actually liked them in the end. I had a choice of adding another three Autocannons in my list as HWS or I could jimmy in two HWS Mortar squads. Now I still have five Autocannons and two Vendettas plus two Manticores at 1500 points. I'm not without any firepower. But how many light vehicles in a heavy mech environment can I take down with five Autos and two Vendettas? It seems to be a trade off either way. I like that I can fire indirectly and actually keep them safe and even hold an objective.

So as it stands my dakka output is

Seven demo charges
Six Mortar pie plates
Six Grenade Launchers
Six TL Lascannons
Five Autocannons
Three Plasma Guns
One Heavy Bolter
Two Manticores w/ random pie plate numbers - average four

So is this enough for a mech list with six or seven vehicles?

felixcat wrote:I'm not without any firepower. But how many light vehicles in a heavy mech environment can I take down with five Autos and two Vendettas?

A fair bloody few! AC's are great for light vehicles. If you find yourself smitten with them you might want to consider Hydra flak tanks What you are missing my friend is the good ol' ML! Kraks are great for popping light vehicles, not so great as the armour goes up. But that is what Vendettas and Lascannons are for- face the LC teams, or face the vendetta, either way its a side shot for you Frag missiles also put the hurt on light infantry, and can throw a suprising number of wounds on MEQ's, especially if they are clustered up.

Honestly though i'd swap the plasma for Melta guns. I don't see any melta's in your dakka output you listed. If you were going to use them as, say, mechvet plasma bus to snap up MEQ kills, I'd swap for Meltas for sure- no over heating, still mops up marines, +it hunts tanks!

I'm actually not using mech vets. I'm using Harper to sit on an objective with an autocannon and three palsmas. I've grown fond of them.

felixcat wrote:I'm actually not using mech vets. I'm using Harper to sit on an objective with an autocannon and three palsmas. I've grown fond of them.

mmmmm that could work. If they are sitting in a chimera it will work great (2 S7 AP4, 3 S7 AP2, 3 S6 AP5 and 3 S5 AP5 a turn sounds like it could put some hurt down- especially if you pop a transport with the boys and shoot up the contents with the Chimera)

Autocannons will outperform mortars every day of the week. Mortars belong in casual armies only.

Ivan wrote:Autocannons will outperform mortars every day of the week. Mortars belong in casual armies only.

Yes, Autocannons will outperform Mortars in light anti-tank/MCs. However, Mortars are dramatically superior anti-infantry. To the OP, that is all it comes down to. I agree with Jihallah on all points.

I tend to take mortars in standard platoon squads instead of weapons teams. A basic platoon with mortars/flamers are great because they're cheap. You park them on an objective in your deployment and just leave'm there. They still get to fire the mortar every turn, if the fight ever comes to them each squad has a flamer and best of all they can all target seperate squads OR target the same squad and potentially force up to 3 pinning tests.

Depending on how you play the pinning abilty of Mortars, they can be pretty good.

It's always a trade-off, felixcat. Always.

Both mortars and autocannon are decent. Personally, I'd rather have the latter than the former but luckily, we can get both in a list. If you actually play in a heavily mechanized environment, you should leave the mortars at home. Having said that, it seems to me that you have a solid transport busting capability, so a handful of mortars won't hurt.

I put a mortar on my on foot PCS and it's a great investment. There's usually one spot on the board were an opponent has a few guys bundled together for whatever reason, and it's nice to be able to drop a template on them. It's only a 5 point upgrade so it only takes one direct hit to make it worth it. Actually taking Mortar HWS seems less likely to be worth it as you're starting to pay decent amount for them at that point.

I might assemble a mortar team to put with my CCS in smaller casual games where they don't need the lascannon to pop MCs... though autocannons are better against vehicles Mortars are loads of fun.

I might assemble a mortar team to put with my CCS in smaller casual games where they don't need the lascannon to pop MCs... though autocannons are better against vehicles Mortars are loads of fun.

If you feel you have enough medium dakka and heavy dakka, go with the mortars. I like them alot, non-LoS and pinning are great capabilities to have.

They're the no brainer upgrade to squads whos only job is to babysit an objective or home base. 5pts is really cheap for a weapon that more than likely will get to fire every turn.

I've pretty much decided to go with them. My problem is HWS in general. Their poor LD makes them quite vulnerable. At least Mortar squads can be hidden. My Autocannon squads seem to be always targeted in my list once the demo squads have been dealt with.

felixcat wrote:I've pretty much decided to go with them. My problem is HWS in general. Their poor LD makes them quite vulnerable. At least Mortar squads can be hidden. My Autocannon squads seem to be always targeted in my list once the demo squads have been dealt with.

You know how you fix that? Adding Kell to a CCS and leaving them near-by. They re-roll their morale tests and take orders on Ld9. If they take extensive fire, have them go to ground then get them up with a "Get Back in the Fight!" tested at Ld9 and they'll continue firing that turn.

I'm planing on using 3 squads with Sniper Rifles and Mortars for double the chance of pinning.

Anpu42 wrote:I'm planing on using 3 squads with Sniper Rifles and Mortars for double the chance of pinning.

I cant tell if that's irony or serious. Probably because I dont know all the various people here on dakkadakka enough to know who is a joker and who isnt.

Should I be laughing at you (I've run MANY proxied games with many sniper rifles and Mortars) or laughing with you becaue you're ironically suggesting mortars and sniper rifles?

^ What? I fail to follow the irony you seem to see

Any way I'm trying mortars for the first time in my life this weekend to see how they do. I'm subing out one of my uber russes for a heavy weapons teams, two squads with flamers, and a pcs (yes one tank of mine is worth that much (roughly)). We will see if the barrage can get the heavy marine player I'm going against to get his ass in the grass and be pinned. Hope for the best. Will post later with results

Aren't marines immune to pinning tests? I mean doesn't atsknf let them auto pass them?

Ivan wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:I'm planing on using 3 squads with Sniper Rifles and Mortars for double the chance of pinning.

I cant tell if that's irony or serious. Probably because I dont know all the various people here on dakkadakka enough to know who is a joker and who isnt.

Should I be laughing at you (I've run MANY proxied games with many sniper rifles and Mortars) or laughing with you becaue you're ironically suggesting mortars and sniper rifles?

I suggest you lose the tone. You won't last long on dakka if you start this elitism game. Mortars can be competitive in the proper situations, so to sit there and run people down who use them is like saying meltaguns should only be used in casual games, because they only work in certain situations.

And you are wrong. Mortars and sniper rifles can slow the advance of a non-fearless infantry army to a crawl. I have used both to great effect in tournaments. The trick is to used combined arms. That is the strength of the Guard.

So in summary, please folks, don't give in to elitism. It sucks for everybody.

Pinning is gold for the Guard. If you can pin a squad, you can possibly ignore them for the round and destroy something else. Sniper/mortar combo is nice and cheap, and only needs one wound to do it's job... it's a good idea, I may try that one....

"So in summary, please folks, don't give in to elitism. It sucks for everybody. " = mean people suck!
and i couldn't agree more.

ot. i've not tried mortars to any degree, but won't rule them out in the future.

I'm baaaaaack, and I bring good news about mortars. They are in fact very effective at hiding and firing at units that are themselves hiding. More importantly they have a decent chance at killing things when you take them in numbers, so bypase putting one in a squad, take a heavy team with three and hide them well

I always stick one in my CCS since it will be hiding out of LOS anyways. I wouldn't want to take any HW that would require me to expose the CCS.

The mortar always kills more than 5pts worth of enemy. Always. Totally worth it.

I wouldn't bother taking HWSquads with mortars though, I like to run LCs or ACs in HWsquads.