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Ok, just got back.

Manager opened up the latest issue of WD and pointed out the tiny fine-print disclaimer where it says that promotional picures are for display purposes only, and that products may vary from those shown.

Fighting down the urge to take the White Dwarf and force him to ingest it rectally, I stayed calm enough to hear him then say I could keep them, swap them for something of equal value, or get a refund.

I went with the refund, which means:

1. Purchase from Maelstrom for $43.93.
2. Get $66 refund from GW.
3. ???
4. Profit! $22.07 to be exact.

Given the 'not our problem' attitude from the GW manager, I don't feel in the slightest bit bad about that.

Of course this now lends more credence to the 'GW are a bunch of sleazy fethwits angle', and leads me to a few possible conclusions.

A). GW knew that the finished models wouldn't look like the pictures and hoped no one would notice.
B). GW thought that they would look like the pictures, it turned out they didn't, but they put them on sale anyway, and are going to fall back on generic disclaimers.
C). GW doesn't care if they look like the pictures, and they put them on sale anyway.
D). GW is oblivious to the fact that the finished product looks nothing like the pictures, aren't going to do anything about it, and are leaving the solutions up to their line managers.

While I doubt A). is true (or would like to think that it isn't possible), the other three all are.

Oh well. I just made $20 bucks.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I went with the refund, which means:

1. Purchase from Maelstrom for $43.93.
2. Get $66 refund from GW.
3. ???
4. Profit! $22.07 to be exact.

Oh well. I just made $20 bucks.

So you blatantly admit you just STOLE $22.07 from GW on an open forum. What do you expect all of us to be proud of you? Why didnt you return the item/items to the retailer that you purchesed them from for a refund in the amount you paid? Or are you saying you cant return stuff to the store that you constantly claim in the best in the world? That people do this kind of thing is one of the reasons the rest of us have to pay so much for our plastic crack. Dont you think CW Corprate included in the price the cost of people scamming them for a few dollars/pounds. Thank you ohh so much for your contribution to society.

edit for spelling

Nicorex wrote:Why didnt you return the item/items to the retailer that you purchesed them from for a refund in the amount you paid?

Sure, I'll just buy a plane ticket to England and get a refund from there. Great suggestion.

Nicorex wrote:Or are you saying you cant return stuff to the store that you constantly claim in the best in the world?

They didn't make the model, it's not their fault.

Nicorex wrote:That people do this kind of thing is one of the reasons the rest of us have to pay so much for our plastic crack.

Ok, you go on thinking that. GW's prices are so high because people are buying cheap and selling high. Yeah.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Ok, just got back.

1. Purchase from Maelstrom for $43.93.
2. Get $66 refund from GW.
3. ???
4. Profit! $22.07 to be exact.

Given the 'not our problem' attitude from the GW manager, I don't feel in the slightest bit bad about that.

I ran this by some state attorney friends of mine. They view it as theft. Though many would admittedly find it petty enough to lack prosecution, and use of state resources, it's still theft and illegal. Nice way to lose moral credibility in all posts. I mean, it's not just that you stole from a store, but you are proud of it. I'm a bit surprised Dakka would tolerate someone blatently bragging about open theft without sanction.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Sure, I'll just buy a plane ticket to England and get a refund from there. Great suggestion.

Did you fly over there to get them? Why didnt you box them up and ship them back?

H.B.M.C. wrote:They didn't make the model, it's not their fault.

But they did buy them at a wholesale price and then turned around and sold it to you at a cheeper price than GW. You took atvantage of their bulk pricing.

Nicorex wrote:That people do this kind of thing is one of the reasons the rest of us have to pay so much for our plastic crack.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Ok, you go on thinking that. GW's prices are so high because people are buying cheap and selling high. Yeah.

I didnt say this was their ONLY reason for higher prices. Large corperations are known for bumping up their retail costs to cover theft and other losses.

Dont be angry at me because you admited to theft, and I now think much less of you.

Nicorex wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I went with the refund, which means:

1. Purchase from Maelstrom for $43.93.
2. Get $66 refund from GW.
3. ???
4. Profit! $22.07 to be exact.

Oh well. I just made $20 bucks.

So you blatantly admit you just STOLE $22.07 from GW on an open forum. What do you expect all of us to be proud of you? Why didnt you return the item/items to the retailer that you purchesed them from for a refund in the amount you paid? Or are you saying you cant return stuff to the store that you constantly claim in the best in the world? That people do this kind of thing is one of the reasons the rest of us have to pay so much for our plastic crack. Dont you think CW Corprate included in the price the cost of people scamming them for a few dollars/pounds. Thank you ohh so much for your contribution to society.

edit for spelling

calltoarms wrote:
I ran this by some state attorney friends of mine. They view it as theft. Though many would admittedly find it petty enough to lack prosecution, and use of state resources, it's still theft and illegal. Nice way to lose moral credibility in all posts. I mean, it's not just that you stole from a store, but you are proud of it. I'm a bit surprised Dakka would tolerate someone blatently bragging about open theft without sanction.

I can't see any way that what HBMC was illegal, unless he at some point claimed to have bought the blastscapes from that GW. What it sounds like to me was that a customer had a GW product they were unhappy with, and in an attempt to settle the problem, the manager mistakenly offered a cash refund. HBMC accepted their offer, and left. That's not even fraud, much less "theft."

Theft requires taking another's property with the intent to gain possession. (that's technically larceny, but close enough). HBMC did not take anybody's property, and he had no intent to steal. He merely traded his items for value.

Sorry fellas but the SOP of retailers is that without a recipt we return stuff at CURRENT price. You bought something at full price, and now it on sale... oops sorry should have kept your recipt. H.B.M.C. just managed to get it the other way around. Caveat emptor

@calltoarms theft is defined in different ways by different states and nations. For example a quick glance through my State's criminal code doesn't show that this would be Theft. It may be covered under Tort Law, but I dont know.

Its not theft , it simply meant GW "paid" for their mess up.
Literally . woot im funny!

HBMC I AM DISAPPOINTED WITH YOU! FOR SHAME!

Why not return it to Maelstorm for the price you paid?!

/sarcasm off.

Frankly, I'm surprised the store let him return it.

Well if you made 20bucks cool way to stick it to the man H.B.M.C. .

calltoarms wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Ok, just got back.

1. Purchase from Maelstrom for $43.93.
2. Get $66 refund from GW.
3. ???
4. Profit! $22.07 to be exact.

Given the 'not our problem' attitude from the GW manager, I don't feel in the slightest bit bad about that.

I ran this by some state attorney friends of mine. They view it as theft. Though many would admittedly find it petty enough to lack prosecution, and use of state resources, it's still theft and illegal. Nice way to lose moral credibility in all posts. I mean, it's not just that you stole from a store, but you are proud of it. I'm a bit surprised Dakka would tolerate someone blatently bragging about open theft without sanction.

**gakker**

I hate foul language blocks.

Anyway, before you comment on something make sure you have a small amount of knowledge on what your posting so you don't look like a biug T.W.A.T

calltoarms wrote:I'm a bit surprised Dakka would tolerate someone blatently bragging about open theft without sanction.

I reported my own post to the mods as soon as I posted it, asking them to make the call whether it should be deleted.

I'll leave in Frazz hands.

skullspliter888 wrote:Well if you made 20bucks cool way to stick it to the man H.B.M.C.

Meh. Wasn't my intention. What I was actually hoping for was some news about it, like "Yes we know it's bad, they're doing a new batch, what are you details and we'll call you when they come in." Wasn't expecting to have a WD shoved in my face. I'd much rather a solution to the issue, than a refund.

Polonius wrote:... unless he at some point claimed to have bought the blastscapes from that GW.

I stated to them from the outset:

1. I did not buy it from them.
2. I had no receipt showing purchase.
3. I brought the items in the box Maelstrom had sent them to me, with their details on two different sides of the box.

He offered me the refund anyway. And he didn't give me cash, it was simply put onto my credit card.

I wouldn't get all up in arms over HMBC pulling a trick. Victory is GW's in the end if he has to use that $66 dollars there, because then he can't send it to Maelstrom!

Nevermind he ninja'd me! Well now he can buy some more stuff.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

calltoarms wrote:I'm a bit surprised Dakka would tolerate someone blatently bragging about open theft without sanction.

I reported my own post to the mods as soon as I posted it, asking them to make the call whether it should be deleted.

I'll leave in Frazz hands.

skullspliter888 wrote:Well if you made 20bucks cool way to stick it to the man H.B.M.C.

Meh. Wasn't my intention. What I was actually hoping for was some news about it, like "Yes we know it's bad, they're doing a new batch, what are you details and we'll call you when they come in." Wasn't expecting to have a WD shoved in my face.

I did the same with something I bought in the UK. I didn't send it back to the UK because postage is a pain, insuring it is a pain and waiting to get my money back is a pain. GW guarantees the quality of their product irregardless of where you purchase it from and say you can always return it to them even if purchased else where.

Heck, my wife purchased a BL book in the UK I already had which GWUS allowed me to return in one of their stores (despite having a different bar code). I lost $2 on that exchange - so is GW stealing from me.

calltoarms is obviously not thinking this through.

calltoarms wrote:

1. Purchase from Maelstrom for $43.93.
2. Get $66 refund from GW.
3. ???
4. Profit! $22.07 to be exact.

I ran this by some state attorney friends of mine. They view it as theft.

More proof that most lawyers are idiots.

This is nothing more than arbitrage, which is completely legal. You buy low in one locale, and sell high in another.

As Frys Electronics is proud to note, they refund with (or without) tax at whatever locale that you return to, now where you purchased. So if you buy in a no-tax state, and return in a high tax state, you pocket the difference. We went over this in excruciating detail with their Returns Manager, and he was insistent on this point.

Anyhow, the above is kind of why most stores have tightened returns policies, or only accept returns for store credit.

But to label it as "theft" is nonsense.

Theft inherently means that someone took something illegitimately, something that they had no right to. Maelstrom is a legit seller, and this is all legit product changing hands. So if you want to claim "theft", you're going to need to back this up with some facts.

I think... no... I think DD was just defending my actions?

Am I... dreaming?

Nah. Must be halucinating.

In all fairness, GW had a responsiblity to ask for his original invoice/receipt when they gave him his refund. Had they have requested it -before- allowing a refund, then they would have given him the exact change he paid at his FLGS. It's no different from any other front counter. If the Redshirts at the GW in question were too dense to realize that he could have bought it somewhere else at a cheaper cost, that's not H.B.M.C's fault, and GW can't legally do or say anything in their defense. If they decided to just slap him with their sticker price on a refund instead of getting a receipt from him, and they ended up giving him back more than he paid, that's GW's bad move and they're now stuck with it.

So legally, H.B.M.C. hasn't done anything wrong. That was the blunder of a morose Redshirt that obviously had no idea how to properly perform a Customer Return.

metallifan wrote:In all fairness, GW had a responsiblity to ask for his original invoice/receipt when they gave him his refund. Had they have requested it -before- allowing a refund, then they would have given him the exact change he paid at his FLGS. It's no different from any other front counter. If the Redshirts at the GW in question were too dense to realize that he could have bought it somewhere else at a cheaper cost, that's not H.B.M.C's fault, and GW can't legally do or say anything in their defense. If they decided to just slap him with their sticker price on a refund instead of getting a receipt from him, and they ended up giving him back more than he paid, that's GW's bad move and they're now stuck with it.

So legally, H.B.M.C. hasn't done anything wrong. That was the blunder of a morose Redshirt that obviously had no idea how to properly perform a Customer Return.

Woe be to this sad sap...

Anyway, who the heck cares, I am happy to see someone get their refund plus compensation so easily. As long as the holes are there, we should be poking them and taking what they do not notice. Or you can argue that GW actually cares about you as a person.

I was thinking of buying some anyways but my local GW only got 2 they were gone as soon as the store opened. I think they don't really want my money. the blastscapes sold out. the fallen angels sold out. and Vulcan direct only sigh. I actually left a GW store without buying anything.

Poor Quality of Terrain, not getting what you expected...

Simple solution...Scratchbuild your own!

Good tutorials, post more if you find them.

Craters
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/235373.page#648550

10mm terrain (epic games)
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/240273.page#719975

Ork building
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/240273.page#719975

Rocks
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/242115.page#743327

"Realm of battle board"
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/242337.page#746552

Wrexasaur wrote:Anyway, who the heck cares, I am happy to see someone get their refund plus compensation so easily. As long as the holes are there, we should be poking them and taking what they do not notice. Or you can argue that GW actually cares about you as a person.

Why, exactly? What benefit is there for me? I'd much rather leave fools to their folly and do something more useful with my time and money, than fight in vain against GW.

Us little people have no power to change things, and it is nothing but naked hubris to go around feeling proud of our power as consumers. In any customer base, rubes and nitwits outnumber intelligent people in such a proportion as to make all our noble aspirations come to nothing. The sensible thing is to give up a lost cause.

I also bought mine off Maelstrom and went to the GW store yesterday for replacements, the manager said no problem and gave me a new bag after personally checking the contents. IF I were to do this through Maelstrom I'd never see replacements. GW is responsible and like the fine people they are, they took responsibility yesterday with good grace and spirit.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Wrexasaur wrote:Anyway, who the heck cares, I am happy to see someone get their refund plus compensation so easily. As long as the holes are there, we should be poking them and taking what they do not notice. Or you can argue that GW actually cares about you as a person.

Why, exactly? What benefit is there for me? I'd much rather leave fools to their folly and do something more useful with my time and money, than fight in vain against GW.

Us little people have no power to change things, and it is nothing but naked hubris to go around feeling proud of our power as consumers. In any customer base, rubes and nitwits outnumber intelligent people in such a proportion as to make all our noble aspirations come to nothing. The sensible thing is to give up a lost cause.

Saving money is not a naive attempt to save anyone's soul I am sorry to say mate. I have not the vision of myself that you deem me worthy of .

If a big company like GW can't take care of itself then it is bound to fail from the get-go. As many other people have said, GW doesn't usually have these kinds of problems. This just serves as another reason I should save as much money as possible when buying from them, sometimes this means avoiding an entire product line. I like DakkaDakka for its tutorials, so don't act like I am trying to take GW's business, I could care less what happens to them.

I think buying anything at all from GW is indefensible, whether directly or via discount retailers. I believe the company deserves to die.

Agamemnon2 wrote:I think buying anything at all from GW is indefensible, whether directly or via discount retailers. I believe the company deserves to die.

Well they will have to get in line behind the corporations that are actually "PURE EVIL" (echo!) because the line is just around the block right now mate .

"Note"
Just get your money back and say you were not happy with the situation. I have not dealt with GW nor do I plan to, but they should be able to smooth this out with an occasional back-rub and/or foot massage. '

I think you guys have missed the point here.

I stated to them from the outset:

1. I did not buy it from them.
2. I had no receipt showing purchase.
3. I brought the items in the box Maelstrom had sent them to me, with their details on two different sides of the box.

He offered me the refund anyway. And he didn't give me cash, it was simply put onto my credit card.

If this is true then the fault lies entirely with GW, he didn't steal gak, and rofl@ anyone claiming he did.

I'm actually pissed that they pulled that in the first place, falling back on a generic disclaimer like that? This isn't exactly nitpicking some small detail, the actual product is very clearly of a vastly inferior quality than what's advertised. I never would have been interested in buying a pack if they showed pictures of the actual finished product.

They've never done this with any other product, I mean sure they promoted the FW piranha in the Tau Empire codex and on the box, which is more detailed than the actual plastic kit, but stuff like that is relatively minor and more often than not you get what you see on the box.

Agamemnon2 wrote:I think buying anything at all from GW is indefensible, whether directly or via discount retailers. I believe the company deserves to die.

And where would the hobby be then? Without a high street company, this hobby would so niche that it would be all but impossible to get into.

hammerofulric wrote:And where would the hobby be then? Without a high street company, this hobby would so niche that it would be all but impossible to get into.

So what? Nothing lasts forever anyway, and Warhammer's had a pretty good run. As the old RPG axiom goes: "No gaming is better than bad gaming". I think turning new people away from this hobby could be seen as a charitable act. Just think of all those grateful parents who are spared thousands of dollars' worth of expense into Little Johnny's fad-of-the-month.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

hammerofulric wrote:And where would the hobby be then? Without a high street company, this hobby would so niche that it would be all but impossible to get into.

So what? Nothing lasts forever anyway, and Warhammer's had a pretty good run. As the old RPG axiom goes: "No gaming is better than bad gaming". I think turning new people away from this hobby could be seen as a charitable act. Just think of all those grateful parents who are spared thousands of dollars' worth of expense into Little Johnny's fad-of-the-month.

Oh-ho-ho, you're funny today. Set the example and sod off, if you preach the word then follow it to the letter.