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Oh, I'll be getting at least one for sure as well. But I'll wait until they're out of the "experimental rules" phase for it. Also, it's pretty ambiguous of them to say, and one could argue, "Sniper weapons, attacks with the
Poisoned ability and the like, only wound the Tomb Stalker
on a 6" would lead to other abilities (such as skulltaker) to have to adhere to this rule as well. But I don't know skulltakers rule either so I'm just speculation (don't tar and feather me!).

i hope this thing will be in the new cron codex, would serve as HS MC, tomb spyders just dont cut it.

bubber wrote:a Lemon Puff can be taken out with 1 hit.
This needs 4 & can't be instant killed 'cause of the toughness 7.
Plus you could probably model it to have a lower profile than the Puff.

what the hell is a lemon puff???

Farmer wrote:i hope this thing will be in the new cron codex, would serve as HS MC, tomb spyders just dont cut it.

Forge World models have never gone straight into a Codex.

Skulltaker has rending attacks on a 4+ instead of just a 6 and inflict instant death. He's also only 140 points, 175 on a juggernaught increasing his strength, wound and attack. Toughness too, I think. So he'd be nasty against it. If the Tomb Stalker gets out of experimental rules and they make him immune to rending weapons too, then Skulltaker will be useless against it, but I don't see them doing that. Oh well, could go either way. If they made it ignore rending, it'll mostly just hurt Skulltaker and won't affect other rending models as much (even though the nice thing about anyone's rending is the ability to wound ANY target on a 6 with no armor save, REGARDLESS of strength and toughness.) So maybe they SHOULD make him immune to rending. But they can't make it more powerful than a C'tan, so I don't see that happening.

We'll have to see from what I read the next Cron Dex will be without the C'Tan, Whom are going Apoc and FW only.

timetowaste85 wrote:Skulltaker has rending attacks on a 4+ instead of just a 6 and inflict instant death. He's also only 140 points, 175 on a juggernaught increasing his strength, wound and attack. Toughness too, I think. So he'd be nasty against it. If the Tomb Stalker gets out of experimental rules and they make him immune to rending weapons too, then Skulltaker will be useless against it, but I don't see them doing that. Oh well, could go either way. If they made it ignore rending, it'll mostly just hurt Skulltaker and won't affect other rending models as much (even though the nice thing about anyone's rending is the ability to wound ANY target on a 6 with no armor save, REGARDLESS of strength and toughness.) So maybe they SHOULD make him immune to rending. But they can't make it more powerful than a C'tan, so I don't see that happening.

The rule in question is;

War Construct: The Tomb Stalker is a huge mass of shifting pseudo-metal, with little vulnerability except to the massive use of force. Sniper weapons, attacks with the Poisoned ability and the like, only wound the Tomb Stalker on a 6 (as opposed to a 4+, 2+ etc, as would normally be the case).

First, remember that these are experimental rules, but that said, the reading seems that it ought to be expansive (i.e., that the War Construct rule prevents automatic wounds on anything but a 6). Thus, Skulltaker most likely would be able to inflict instant death by means of his "Skulls for the Skull Throne" rule, but only on a roll of a 6.

This creates an amusing situation where, if Skulltaker is charged by a tomb stalker, there tomb stalker is likely to only inflict 2 wounds (6 attacks, 3 hits, 2 wounds on T5 Skulltaker) which is not enough to kill, whereas Skulltaker has a 55% chance of killing the stalker outright. But failing that, SKulltaker will inflict no wounds, as at S5, he needs 6 to hurt the stalker at all. The best advice for a Necron player facing skull taker remains, sadly, to shoot him down with destroyers from range*. Which is sad mainly because that's the Necron solution to everything...

That said, this model does not "fix" the many problems Necrons have in this edition, but it's an awesome model that I can only hope it's appearance is indicative of a new themes that we will see in future (hopefully plastic) kits for Necrons and a renewed attention to their rules.

Well, hope anyway...

*5 destroyers: 15 shots, 10 hits, 6.7 wounds, 2.3 wounds unsaved. At first glance only very slightly better then the stalker, but this is at great range, and with essentially zero chance of Skulltaker ever catching them.

Athera wrote:

Farmer wrote:i hope this thing will be in the new cron codex, would serve as HS MC, tomb spyders just dont cut it.

Forge World models have never gone straight into a Codex.

Yeah, sure they haven't i mean the trygon wasn't a forge world product before GW decided they wanted it in the new codex...

Athera wrote:

Farmer wrote:i hope this thing will be in the new cron codex, would serve as HS MC, tomb spyders just dont cut it.

Forge World models have never gone straight into a Codex.

You mean other than Piranhas and Skyrays, right?

Aduro wrote:

Athera wrote:

Farmer wrote:i hope this thing will be in the new cron codex, would serve as HS MC, tomb spyders just dont cut it.

Forge World models have never gone straight into a Codex.

You mean other than Piranhas and Skyrays, right?

Don't forget that the only way to get non-converted Vanquishers in 3rd ed for Guard was through FW despite being a Codex option.

Any idea of a release date yet? Not even on pre-order at the Forgeworld site

Jaws of the world wolf gives MC s a 4 + save... Or immunity, not sure which off hand but yea it wouldn't be fun to watch this model drop to a hundred point priest

Buzzsaw, my problem is that currently C'tan can be 4+ killed by Skulltaker-if they can, most assuredly the Tomb Stalker should be able to as well. Plus, they'd be making that rule to only affect one model (Skulltaker) if the rending only allows a six, no special modifications allowed. His ruling is special, while poison and sniper weapons are rules available for MANY models and they typically need 2's or 4's to affect other models-rending itself requires a 6, but Skulltaker is a lone exception to the norm, hence he should still be able to 4+ its head off. So I think the Stalker's rules probably won't affect him, unless a PDF errata or the forgeworld rules include the effects of rending, because it is a bit different in its wounding ability from poison and snipers


-updated for odd wording

timetowaste85 wrote:Buzzsaw, my problem is that currently C'tan can be 4+ killed by Skulltaker-if they can, most assuredly the Tomb Stalker should be able to as well. Plus, they'd be making that rule to only affect one model (Skulltaker) if the rending only allows a six, no special modifications allowed. His ruling is special, while poison and sniper weapons are rules available for MANY models and they typically need 2's or 4's to affect other models-rending itself requires a 6, but Skulltaker is a lone exception to the norm, hence he should still be able to 4+ its head off. So I think the Stalker's rules probably won't affect him, unless a PDF errata or the forgeworld rules include the effects of rending, because it is a bit different in its wounding ability from poison and snipers


-updated for odd wording

Here's the thing. Skulltaker, ohhh scary scary indeed but really this argument is all based on the conclusion he will get into combat with the Stalker. Unless the Necron player does something wrong I'd doubt it, move through cover, fleet and a ton of supporting fire coming from the rest his army I'd doubt you'd throw Skulltaker just to kill 1 model and watch him die afterwords. Not exactly the best idea =/

Well, the post isn't really to talk about how I play my daemons, but I'll just quickly elaborate to say that I have a bunch of models that can force his Stalker to move a bit, giving me some extra range and Skulltaker never hangs out alone. On topic, the argument was more along the lines of whether they will alter the stalker's special rules to allow him to be immune to specialized, single character only rules, such as Skulltaker's. Also, if they do, this will make them more powerful than a C'tan, which while not impossible is pretty foolish. While the necrons haven't gotten an update in a long time and other books have more powerful mortals, a necron unit should not be more powerful than a necron god at half the cost. That's more what this was intended to be about, other than my very first post gloating that skulltaker could go choppy choppy on a stalker and if nothing else, force an opponent to play very carefully and defensively with this guy

Well the way I see it, he's still affected by rending. Sniper, poison, and the lot, are designed to not be the strongest but have a certain ability about them that makes them more powerful then they usually are. Sniper rifles hit weak spots in between armor, while poison have toxins that are designed to infect the bloodstream.
But because of the armor around it's designed to be much more difficult to affect the body itself around all that armor.

Rending is not like that though. It's simply a weapon that can occasionally rip through armor.

Soulx wrote:Well the way I see it, he's still affected by rending. Sniper, poison, and the lot, are designed to not be the strongest but have a certain ability about them that makes them more powerful then they usually are. Sniper rifles hit weak spots in between armor, while poison have toxins that are designed to infect the bloodstream.

False.

Poisons only wound him on a six.

Monster Rain wrote:

Soulx wrote:Well the way I see it, he's still affected by rending. Sniper, poison, and the lot, are designed to not be the strongest but have a certain ability about them that makes them more powerful then they usually are. Sniper rifles hit weak spots in between armor, while poison have toxins that are designed to infect the bloodstream.

False.

Poisons only wound him on a six.

What I was saying is why it doesn't affect him. Perhaps poorly worded on my part, but when I was talking about snipers and poison, I was trying to say how it affect regular enemies, but why the Tomb Stalker is so different.

War Construct: The Tomb Stalker is a huge mass of shifting
pseudo-metal, with little vulnerability except to the
massive use of force. Sniper weapons, attacks with the
Poisoned ability and the like, only wound the Tomb Stalker
on a 6 (as opposed to a 4+, 2+ etc, as would normally be
the case).
Phase Tunnelling: The Tomb Stalker is extraordinarily fast,
and carries inbuilt phase field projectors allowing it to pass
easily through inert matter, boring its way through rock
and stone, and effortlessly passing through debris and
rough terrain as it moves. As a result it has the Fleet, Deep
Strike, Move Through Cover and Hit and Run universal
special rules

Meh. I thought that covered it pretty well.

By "Meh. I thought that covered it pretty well," do you mean that rending- representing an extremely powerful attack that is accurate enough to smash through armor- isn't covered by the stalkers rules, or that they were including that by the "etc"? It's pretty much ambiguous as is.

Personally with the way it is read/written and how skulltaker works, I would still say the ability only works on a 6 instead of a 4+ (as usually rending is a 6 anyway and it does say that abilities as such only work on a 6 instead of 4+ or 2+) but it would still be an insta-gib from skulltaker if it happened.

But yes, it is a very ambiguous rule and needs much interpretation/clarification.

it says snipers and poison and the like, meaning weapons that usually have a set "to wound" based on their rules in the book-which is normally a 4+ for most poison and snipers. Skulltaker is a single oddity in the game, in his ability (as far as i know), and as such I can't see them adjusting the rule just to hinder him. Anyway, totally ambiguous, and I'm sure they'll fix it later

Umm i know this is a little off topic, but both C'Tan are immune to instant death doesn't that stop skull taker?

doubled wrote:Umm i know this is a little off topic, but both C'Tan are immune to instant death doesn't that stop skull taker?

Not true in the slightest. They are immune to ID from Wraithcannons only. All other ID weapons will kill them normally, assuming the proper conditions are met.

I have a question regarding the codex's release date. If GKs are before necrons, why are there so few rumors in comparison to them? As well as necrons getting a new model, it sure makes it seem like the necrons would be released first doesn't it? Also, in one of the first GK release rumor threads back in... March I think, it listed DE and Necrons as "Deep in development" and Grey knights as "work started." Also, I saw a necron rumor that stated that they had completed the development phase or something along those lines.

As for the tomb stalker itself, good model with underwhelming rules.

Xca|iber wrote:

doubled wrote:Umm i know this is a little off topic, but both C'Tan are immune to instant death doesn't that stop skull taker?

Not true in the slightest. They are immune to ID from Wraithcannons only. All other ID weapons will kill them normally, assuming the proper conditions are met.

Which is based on a quirk of the ID mechanics from back in third, yes?

According to the catalogue this thing is only 36 quid...

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/g/gdcatsup.pdf

So yeh, those £110 ones on ebay are a bit of a rip.

Nevermind...false hope :(

Farmer wrote:Seems the necrons thought if they can't beat tyranids make their own versions of them.

Not sure they really need to beat them. Fluff has it that the Tyranids hive mind is actually controlled the the 4th C'tan, The Outsider. He is wandering outside the galaxy and using the Tyranids to attack instead of Necrons like the other C'tan. Well the other free ones anyways...the Void Dragon is still entombed underground on Mars. Its rumored that he is the "machine spirit" that the tech priests are worshipping...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

doubled wrote:We'll have to see from what I read the next Cron Dex will be without the C'Tan, Whom are going Apoc and FW only.

Works for me. However, until the new dex comes out Ill probably be adding a Nightbringer as an option for my army...cant ignore CC ability like that just because the fluff behind it is kinda meh.

Mad4Minis wrote:

Farmer wrote:Seems the necrons thought if they can't beat tyranids make their own versions of them.

Not sure they really need to beat them. Fluff has it that the Tyranids hive mind is actually controlled the the 4th C'tan, The Outsider.

NO.