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JohnHwangDD wrote:@Phish: Sure, but you would never take Scourges with Lances... If you want more Lances, you take Ravagers or Raiders. Scourges are shoot & scoot.

But that's not really the issue. The points premium paid for a Scourge was so disproportionate, regardless of how they were armed, that there was never a real reason to field them at all.

Do we have any idea on the points costs of any of the units in the new book? Thats the one thing that I want to know more than anything else right now.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Do you mean Jetpacks like the tau have Kroot.

Right, fixed my post.

zeekill wrote:Do we have any idea on the points costs of any of the units in the new book? Thats the one thing that I want to know more than anything else right now.

As said in the first post, only the background entries of all units were shown on GD UK, so noone has seen any point costs there.

kroothawk wrote:

zeekill wrote:Do we have any idea on the points costs of any of the units in the new book? Thats the one thing that I want to know more than anything else right now.

As said in the first post, only the background entries of all units were shown on GD UK, so noone has seen any point costs there.

Darn I really wanted to know at least the base cost of each unit. Oh well just have to wait for the black box...


On a side note, have we confirmed (or come close to confirming) the profiles of the weapons? So far the 4 things I have heard are:

1) Dark Lance S8 AP2 Lance, Blaster 18" S8 AP2 Lance ----------------If it stays this I'd be ok with it.

2) Dark Lance S8 AP1 Lance, Blaster 18" S6 AP1 Lance-Melta ------------- I dont want that Blaster. Against AV14 its = to a meltagun, but against everything else its worse. AP1 Lance is unlikely but i'll take it

3) Dark Lance S8 AP2 Lance, Blaster 18" S8 AP1 Lance-Melta -----------This is what I want the most. Good long range and deadly short range (of course the blaster would be like 15 pts but that's alright)

4) Dark Lance S6 AP1 Lance-Melta, Blaster 18" S6 AP1 Lance-Melta --------------This would suck, and I probably wouldn't even play DE if they made it like this unless we got something to compensate. If this really is what they do, Mech Eldar will just walk all over DE without even trying

I would hope the Dark Lance would at least have 36" range.

Ya, I would sell my army if they did Rule #4

fett14622 wrote:Ya, I would sell my army if they did Rule #4

I'd sell my army if they did rule 34

zeekill wrote:

kroothawk wrote:

zeekill wrote:Do we have any idea on the points costs of any of the units in the new book? Thats the one thing that I want to know more than anything else right now.

As said in the first post, only the background entries of all units were shown on GD UK, so noone has seen any point costs there.

Darn I really wanted to know at least the base cost of each unit. Oh well just have to wait for the black box...


On a side note, have we confirmed (or come close to confirming) the profiles of the weapons? So far the 4 things I have heard are:

1) Dark Lance S8 AP2 Lance, Blaster 18" S8 AP2 Lance ----------------If it stays this I'd be ok with it.

2) Dark Lance S8 AP1 Lance, Blaster 18" S6 AP1 Lance-Melta ------------- I dont want that Blaster. Against AV14 its = to a meltagun, but against everything else its worse. AP1 Lance is unlikely but i'll take it

3) Dark Lance S8 AP2 Lance, Blaster 18" S8 AP1 Lance-Melta -----------This is what I want the most. Good long range and deadly short range (of course the blaster would be like 15 pts but that's alright)

4) Dark Lance S6 AP1 Lance-Melta, Blaster 18" S6 AP1 Lance-Melta --------------This would suck, and I probably wouldn't even play DE if they made it like this unless we got something to compensate. If this really is what they do, Mech Eldar will just walk all over DE without even trying

Number 2's blaster may be mathmatically worse than a melta for AV<14, but it's extra range compensates. It'll be much easier to get into range to apply the +d6 penetration, especially with the DE's speed.
I can't imagine number 3's blaster ever getting into the game.

Vladsimpaler wrote:

fett14622 wrote:Ya, I would sell my army if they did Rule #4

I'd sell my army if they did rule 34

Why, not into BDSM?

Well, dark matter shots with AP 1 would be definitely something new.
Must be a technological advance of the dark kin.

Did you read yesterday's review of Incubi and Archon by Jes Goodwin on GW's website? When he's talking about the design of the horned helmet for the Archon, he says something like it fits great with Incubi when you use them as a retinue.

We had heard that Incubi were moving to Elite slot, and that there is a new unit of Elite Kabalyte Warriors that would be the retinue of the Archon. So: maybe both squads can be fielded as retinue with and Archon or as Elite squads without an Archon? Potentially 4 (or 5 if Archon is not a 0-1 entry) Incubi units in an army?

Could you please pinpoint to the respective article? Thanks.

wuestenfux wrote:Could you please pinpoint to the respective article? Thanks.

Sorry, I can't right now. I'm at work so GW website is blocked here. I read the article yesternight. It's the daily article of the Astronomican, dated 30th September. Maybe another kind soul could...

Got it: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=13000014a
Here comes a new Incubus:

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Phish: Sure, but you would never take Scourges with Lances... If you want more Lances, you take Ravagers or Raiders. Scourges are shoot & scoot.

The ravager still ended up making a better Heavy Support option. You could take a ravager with 3 disintegrators for 120 points. You could take the minimal squad of scourges with 4 splintercannons for 160 points. You could even the points by dropping 2 splintercannons.

Scourges = 16 S4 AP5 shots and 2 S3 AP5 shots

Ravager moving less than 6" = 3 blasts S7 AP2
Ravager moving up to 12" = 9 S4 AP3 shots or 6 and 1 blast.

The scourges just weren't worth the point sink. You could match their abilities or beat them for fewer points with the ravager.

ThePhish wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Phish: Sure, but you would never take Scourges with Lances... If you want more Lances, you take Ravagers or Raiders. Scourges are shoot & scoot.

The ravager still ended up making a better Heavy Support option. You could take a ravager with 3 disintegrators for 120 points. You could take the minimal squad of scourges with 4 splintercannons for 160 points. You could even the points by dropping 2 splintercannons.

Scourges = 16 S4 AP5 shots and 2 S3 AP5 shots

Ravager moving less than 6" = 3 blasts S7 AP2
Ravager moving up to 12" = 9 S4 AP3 shots or 6 and 1 blast.

The scourges just weren't worth the point sink. You could match their abilities or beat them for fewer points with the ravager.

Agreed. Scourges needed changes. The premium paid for the weapons was just plain silly, and nothing they did couldn't be done better by another option in the HS slot.

The rumored Haywire Grenade Launcher might make Scourges worth it alone if they have the same effect (Glance on a 2-5, Pen on a 6). That would be insane against vehicles if it has any range and is an assault weapon.

Skarboy wrote:The rumored Haywire Grenade Launcher might make Scourges worth it alone if they have the same effect (Glance on a 2-5, Pen on a 6). That would be insane against vehicles if it has any range and is an assault weapon.

I thought haywire were glance 4-5, Penetrate 6(?).

Scottywan82 wrote:

Skarboy wrote:The rumored Haywire Grenade Launcher might make Scourges worth it alone if they have the same effect (Glance on a 2-5, Pen on a 6). That would be insane against vehicles if it has any range and is an assault weapon.

I thought haywire were glance 4-5, Penetrate 6(?).

Nope, Skarboy has it right.

puma713 wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:

Skarboy wrote:The rumored Haywire Grenade Launcher might make Scourges worth it alone if they have the same effect (Glance on a 2-5, Pen on a 6). That would be insane against vehicles if it has any range and is an assault weapon.

I thought haywire were glance 4-5, Penetrate 6(?).

Nope, Skarboy has it right.

Wow, WAY sicker than I thought.

Still waiting for Lelith's stats.

Amaya wrote:Still waiting for Lelith's stats.

Not so keen on her.
I usually stay away from special character models.

You don't have to use her AS a special character though... I predict many Archons/Archites being represented by some variation of her model.

poor Kruellagh


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wuestenfux wrote:

Amaya wrote:Still waiting for Lelith's stats.

Not so keen on her.
I usually stay away from special character models.

I don't see why you wouldn't, i sure hope there is a jetbike/hellion/mandrake lord that buff your army up and make them troops.

I'm interested to see how all the Wych weapons work together. If only 1 model has the item that subtracts 1 attack from the enemy, will that apply to the whole unit?

While one Wych weapon that adds d6 attacks rather than the standard +1 for an extra weapon, it doesn't note that it is a power weapon, so I don't think it'll be all that great.

So far, things look interesting, but nothing of note really stands out as 'OMG, that's broken'.

Sarigar wrote:I'm interested to see how all the Wych weapons work together. If only 1 model has the item that subtracts 1 attack from the enemy, will that apply to the whole unit?

While one Wych weapon that adds d6 attacks rather than the standard +1 for an extra weapon, it doesn't note that it is a power weapon, so I don't think it'll be all that great.

So far, things look interesting, but nothing of note really stands out as 'OMG, that's broken'.

Adding D6 attacks would definitely make Wych weapons more expensive.
However, I like those rather cheap Wych models, with 12+1 pts I find them really worth taking them.
There are enough overpriced models out there in the 40k universe, e.g. Scourges.

I really don't get why people hate special characters so much. Everyone's quick to claim that they play for "fun", but the ones adamant about it are usually the most restrictive...

wuestenfux wrote:

Sarigar wrote:I'm interested to see how all the Wych weapons work together. If only 1 model has the item that subtracts 1 attack from the enemy, will that apply to the whole unit?

While one Wych weapon that adds d6 attacks rather than the standard +1 for an extra weapon, it doesn't note that it is a power weapon, so I don't think it'll be all that great.

So far, things look interesting, but nothing of note really stands out as 'OMG, that's broken'.

Adding D6 attacks would definitely make Wych weapons more expensive.
However, I like those rather cheap Wych models, with 12+1 pts I find them really worth taking them.
There are enough overpriced models out there in the 40k universe, e.g. Scourges.

I'm just thinking over how these individual Wych weapons will work. IIRC, GW made Wych Weapons more generic as they were originall a PITA to actually play in game.

Ultimately, I'm very interested in the Wyches as a modelling project. However, I'd like to see how they are going to stack up against Harlequins as they both seem to have very similar roles. Especially since Harlies appear to be able to jump into open topped vehicles.

Sidstyler wrote:I really don't get why people hate special characters so much. Everyone's quick to claim that they play for "fun", but the ones adamant about it are usually the most restrictive...

Well SC that really change a game up like Vulkan, the Ctan, Mephiston, Swarmlord, etc can cause big problems to people who have no idea how to counter them.

Plus I guess it makes more cookie cutter lists (such as vulkan)

Sidstyler wrote:I really don't get why people hate special characters so much. Everyone's quick to claim that they play for "fun", but the ones adamant about it are usually the most restrictive...

I don't hate special characters, I hate the trend of them being the only way to modify your army. I hate the way people mix special characters from different armies. I like to make up my own characters for my armies, and find these army-changing special characters take a lot of the character out of 40K (ie. people don't play their Salamanders any more - they play their Vulkan list - it's boring).