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Yeah, not every Space Marine gets a stormshield or digital weapons. Yet, inquisitors and their retinues have access to these things.

Mr Hyena wrote:The Inquisition is higher up in the hierarchy than the Grey Knights though. Its always said they get vastly better tech than the other factions of the IoM.

Let me rephrase.

BA, BT, DA, SW, Vanilla SM and INQ Henchmen all get access to Storm Shields, but TAGK's don't?

Colour me sceptical.

grimz wrote:Can anyone explain Crusaders to me?

Why on Earth, would the elite of elite give Humans Storm Shields? Isn't technology slowly going backwards or something?

I agree with you. This kind of stuff should at least be limited to WS or BS 4 humans, not these mooks.

synack wrote:BA, BT, DA, SW, Vanilla SM and INQ Henchmen all get access to Storm Shields, but TAGK's don't?

It could be a doctrinal thing - they don't fight with shields. And it seems the Warding Staves will fill that role anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Honestly I would be fine with GKT having or not having storm shields.

I would be more than a bit insulted if they couldnt get SS. They could in their previous [current] codex, and I really would love to see some nemesis halberd / storm shield (NFW/SS, what a beautiful abbreviation <3) terminator action. But then again, although storm shields are better, Paladins do have a 4++, so I guess I can live with only a measly 50% chance of totally ignoring that strength 10 ap 1 orbital bombardment :/

Jaon wrote:Paladins do have a 4++, so I guess I can live with only a measly 50% chance of totally ignoring that strength 10 ap 1 orbital bombardment :/

This has been shot down on warseer, apparently they don't have a 4++ and it remains to be seen what the warding staff does.

I just read all the info on Warseer and TBH, the only thing I can see GK having issues with so far, is heavy mech.

Those Psycannon will be ok vs rhino and chimera class vehicles, but this army is really going to struggle at range vs armour 14.

I have a question...

How will this army compare to other super elite armies??? Other armies with low numbers do tend to be crazy bad.


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ATM I am of two minds. Get an existing army or wait for GK.


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But again, I still doubt these rumors are genuine.

So soon after hearing no news for ages, we have a flood of info. Looking at what we had for SW, BA and DE, we never got this much info this quickly. It doesn't make any sense.

synack wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:The Inquisition is higher up in the hierarchy than the Grey Knights though. Its always said they get vastly better tech than the other factions of the IoM.

Let me rephrase.

BA, BT, DA, SW, Vanilla SM and INQ Henchmen all get access to Storm Shields, but TAGK's don't?

Colour me sceptical.

Fluff can be used to create rules, but never the other way around. Just because they don't have access to it doesn't mean they won't in the fluff, much like how the Imperial Guard having exclusive use of the order system doesn't mean no other force would use it in the fluff. Sometimes it's done intentionally for the purposes of balance. Not to mention that we have NO idea what half of the listed equipment does; maybe Nemesis Falchions or Warding Stalves give a 'parry' bonus, giving them a 4++ effectively, etc.

Don't standard TAGK have the option for TH/SS? Or DH/SS?

alphaomega wrote:Don't standard TAGK have the option for TH/SS? Or DH/SS?

Not according to the rumours.

The only other solution to this is that Daemonhosts are not in the Codex, something I am quite willing to believe, but the second option makes far more sense to me from a marketing perspective – why remove an opportunity for your customers to buy more models? If anything, Daemonhosts will get improved rules because the last versions sucked so badly that no one bought them. It will give a new lease of life on an old sculpt, and is the best way to generate more sales with minimal outlay (changing a rule is cheap, changing a model is not, and forbidding the use of a model makes you no money at all).

HB speaks da truth.

Alpharius already mentioned running these guys as a counts-as Alpha Legion army

Henchmen as alpha legion I could buy but the first dude that brings in grey knights to the table claiming they count as alpha legion is going to be kicked out of the gaming club.

I hear what you're saying Kan, and I agree, fluff-wise, since this is technically, a Grey Knight codex here, if they have any kind of Inquisitorial support, it should be from the Ordo Malleus, not from radical Ordo Xenos types. I mean, after all, they are still daemon hunters here, so yeah, alien henchman be damned here....they don't 'fit'.

I also agree but fluff wise speaking the =I= retinues would also be excluded.
Who the heck brings normal humans into a super deamon battle where only the GKs stand a chance of getting out with intact sanities.

There is a lot of hypocricy with one paradox not fitting in with the codex while a bunch of otehrs do.

Why on Earth, would the elite of elite give Humans Storm Shields? Isn't technology slowly going backwards or something?

Why on earth would normal humans be given the means for a super save while the true elite grey knights next to them cant?

The Inquisition is higher up in the hierarchy than the Grey Knights though. Its always said they get vastly better tech than the other factions of the IoM.

Then again isnt one of the GK grand masters a member of the high lords of terra?
You cant get a higher give-us-hitech-toys status then that!

I made an account to leave this comment, Grey Knight anti-vehicle? Do you realise how good Psycannons are rumoured to be now?

Str 7 Heavy 4/Assault 2, with rending. That can shoot through walls btw, 4 in a squad for 280 pts?

Thats say 16 shots, which equate to just under 2 rendings in total. Str 7+6 = 13, with 1-2 glancing a LR and 3-6 penetrating. Let alone anything less than a landraider lol.

What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?

1) Why was this even mentioned in this thread in the first place?
2) What does it have to do with the topic, Grey Knights?

grimz wrote:Can anyone explain Crusaders to me?

Why on Earth, would the elite of elite give Humans Storm Shields? Isn't technology slowly going backwards or something?

The Imperium has impossibly advanced technology. They just don't waste it on grunts, as they effectively have infinite grunts.

ph34r wrote:Yeah, not every Space Marine gets a stormshield or digital weapons. Yet, inquisitors and their retinues have access to these things.

Jaon wrote:I would be more than a bit insulted if they couldnt get SS...

synack wrote:BA, BT, DA, SW, Vanilla SM and INQ Henchmen all get access to Storm Shields, but TAGK's don't?

I think you guys are missing the point that they're expected to get something effectively better than a stormshield. Or in the least something that if used with SS would be broken.

Puscifer wrote:Those Psycannon will be ok vs rhino and chimera class vehicles, but this army is really going to struggle at range vs armour 14.

Not if multiple Vindicaires can be taken, and not if they have unlimited special ammo.

Admitted those are both big 'ifs', but Vindies can easily smash AV14 to pieces. If GW gives them further nonsense, like ignores cover or AP1, then AV14 just leaves the meta.

Pyriel- wrote:

The only other solution to this is that Daemonhosts are not in the Codex, something I am quite willing to believe, but the second option makes far more sense to me from a marketing perspective – why remove an opportunity for your customers to buy more models? If anything, Daemonhosts will get improved rules because the last versions sucked so badly that no one bought them. It will give a new lease of life on an old sculpt, and is the best way to generate more sales with minimal outlay (changing a rule is cheap, changing a model is not, and forbidding the use of a model makes you no money at all).

HB speaks da truth.

Alpharius already mentioned running these guys as a counts-as Alpha Legion army

Henchmen as alpha legion I could buy but the first dude that brings in grey knights to the table claiming they count as alpha legion is going to be kicked out of the gaming club.

Guess I won't be gaming at your rather restrictive club then!

There is currently NO way to accurately represent an Alpha Legion cell using regular humans and Astartes working together.

The old Daemonhunters codex allowed for an excellent 'counts as' method for doing this - very easy with the "allies" rule.

Well, the 'allies' rule is going away now, but according to GW we're still living in the Golden Age of "Counts As".

Having 'souped up' Astartes (GK's of various flavors) in an army with Imperial Guard types is a GREAT way to represent the (alleged) true power of the Space Marines in comparison to regular humans - Accept it! And Get Into It!

Alpha Legion don't really use their old "cell" structure that they used during the Heresy from the accounts I've seen of their actions in the 'current' timeframe though.

Pyriel- wrote:Henchmen as alpha legion I could buy but the first dude that brings in grey knights to the table claiming they count as alpha legion is going to be kicked out of the gaming club.

Why's that? Usual apprehensions about counts-as aside, you have Marines and humans (cultists/AL agents depending on your interpretation of Legion) fighting alongside each other. As long as all the wargear is accounted for on the model appropriately, there shouldn't be a problem.

Who the heck brings normal humans into a super deamon battle where only the GKs stand a chance of getting out with intact sanities. There is a lot of hypocricy with one paradox not fitting in with the codex while a bunch of otehrs do.

What?

Why on earth would normal humans be given the means for a super save while the true elite grey knights next to them cant?

For balance issues, probably. It's not that huge of a deal.

Then again isnt one of the GK grand masters a member of the high lords of terra?
You cant get a higher give-us-hitech-toys status then that!

Nah, just a position on the leadership council of the Inquisition.

sourclams wrote:

Puscifer wrote:Those Psycannon will be ok vs rhino and chimera class vehicles, but this army is really going to struggle at range vs armour 14.

Not if multiple Vindicaires can be taken, and not if they have unlimited special ammo.

Admitted those are both big 'ifs', but Vindies can easily smash AV14 to pieces. If GW gives them further nonsense, like ignores cover or AP1, then AV14 just leaves the meta.

Yeah, Vindis look pretty strong to me too. Someone earlier said it's 4 + 4d6, which is pretty nuts. Still, they lost their night fight and just gained stealth in return....so I guess if you bring landraiders against that you just pour all your str. 8+ into him and hope he fails a cover.

Hmm, I hope GKT and Paladins can pay for stormshields... that 3++ is just too good to pass up.

NFW/SS would be amazing.

On the other hand There is the Inquisitor Lord Terran...

Which a lot of my friends find highly amusing

Alpharius wrote:Guess I won't be gaming at your rather restrictive club then!

There is currently NO way to accurately represent an Alpha Legion cell using regular humans and Astartes working together.

The old Daemonhunters codex allowed for an excellent 'counts as' method for doing this - very easy with the "allies" rule.

forge world called, said hi, and told me to tell you that they're quite angry that you're ignoring their books. the brits on the other line said that you can team astartes and humans together with lots of variety using the tyrant's legion rules, thankyouverymuchsir. exact quote. you can also still keep their "are-they-chaos-or-loyal???" flavor by using it as opposed to when using the GK rules.

I made an account to leave this comment, Grey Knight anti-vehicle? Do you realise how good Psycannons are rumoured to be now?

Str 7 Heavy 4/Assault 2, with rending. That can shoot through walls btw, 4 in a squad for 280 pts?

Thats say 16 shots, which equate to just under 2 rendings in total. Str 7+6 = 13, with 1-2 glancing a LR and 3-6 penetrating. Let alone anything less than a landraider lol.

For 280-ish points they BETTER damn wreck some vehicles.
Even that, a pen hit doesnt automatically translate to a destroyed tank, only 1/3 of all pen hits get destroyed.
So this 280p unit needs to whack a lot of armour and do so every turn in order to ever earn back those points.

Vs light mech opponents those points will never be earned back since a rhino and dark eldar banana boat cost so little as do most horde infantry.
Plus shutting down such a non cc unit would be fairly easy since the standard GK army wont have unit numbers over to leave spare squads back guarding that purgation squad from fast flankers and deep strikers etc.

Guess I won't be gaming at your rather restrictive club then!

There is currently NO way to accurately represent an Alpha Legion cell using regular humans and Astartes working together.

The old Daemonhunters codex allowed for an excellent 'counts as' method for doing this - very easy with the "allies" rule.

Well, the 'allies' rule is going away now, but according to GW we're still living in the Golden Age of "Counts As".

Having 'souped up' Astartes (GK's of various flavors) in an army with Imperial Guard types is a GREAT way to represent the (alleged) true power of the Space Marines in comparison to regular humans - Accept it! And Get Into It!

Its the increase power levels of individual GK and TAGK marines vs SM that dont do it for me.
No way you are going to convince me that alpha legion mariens are SO damn much more powerful then normal marines that a grey knight termie squad all of a sudden count as chaos SM.

Its as probable as me having units of deamon princes "counting as" first founding loyalist astartes or GK terminators with plague conversions counting as fallen GKs in the servidce of nurgle.
The fluff feel of having GK marines with their ultra-pro-imperial rules "counting as" chaos marines is just to much.

But if you show me official fluff and/or rules that say the standard Alpha legion marine comes with a force weapon, their whole warhosts consist of marine psychers and their forges produce aegis terminator armours for their common troop tactical squads then you have me sold.

Until then, dream on.

Kanluwen wrote:Alpha Legion don't really use their old "cell" structure that they used during the Heresy from the accounts I've seen of their actions in the 'current' timeframe though.

They are as many unconfirmed reports of 'exactly' how the Legion operates "today" as their are confirmed reports - the beauty of the Alpha Legion is that, really, anything goes.

warboss wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Guess I won't be gaming at your rather restrictive club then!

There is currently NO way to accurately represent an Alpha Legion cell using regular humans and Astartes working together.

The old Daemonhunters codex allowed for an excellent 'counts as' method for doing this - very easy with the "allies" rule.

forge world called, said hi, and told me to tell you that they're quite angry that you're ignoring their books. the brits on the other line said that you can team astartes and humans together with lots of variety using the tyrant's legion rules, thankyouverymuchsir. exact quote. you can also still keep their "are-they-chaos-or-loyal???" flavor by using it as opposed to when using the GK rules.

Yeah, unfortunately the Real World called and there were many irrational gamers on the line with bizarre anti-FW phobias, aka, "If it Ain't GW, I Ain't Playing Against It!" Syndrome!

Still, a VERY good idea - and one that I'll be looking into - thanks!

forge world called, said hi, and told me to tell you that they're quite angry that you're ignoring their books. the brits on the other line said that you can team astartes and humans together with lots of variety using the tyrant's legion rules, thankyouverymuchsir.

Thankyou very much.

Here you go Alphy, use the perfectly reasonable FW badab rule books to represent an alpha-with-humans army, I would love to meet that on the table rather then some massacred fluff contraption with super psycher grey alpha legionaires.


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They are as many unconfirmed reports of 'exactly' how the Legion operates "today" as their are confirmed reports - the beauty of the Alpha Legion is that, really, anything goes.

Yeah like their alpha legion psycannons and psycher powers für alles!
LOL

You´ll find tons more people accepting a game with FW rules then the insanity above.

Pyriel- wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Guess I won't be gaming at your rather restrictive club then!

There is currently NO way to accurately represent an Alpha Legion cell using regular humans and Astartes working together.

The old Daemonhunters codex allowed for an excellent 'counts as' method for doing this - very easy with the "allies" rule.

Well, the 'allies' rule is going away now, but according to GW we're still living in the Golden Age of "Counts As".

Having 'souped up' Astartes (GK's of various flavors) in an army with Imperial Guard types is a GREAT way to represent the (alleged) true power of the Space Marines in comparison to regular humans - Accept it! And Get Into It!

Its the increase power levels of individual GK and TAGK marines vs SM that dont do it for me.
No way you are going to convince me that alpha legion mariens are SO damn much more powerful then normal marines that a grey knight termie squad all of a sudden count as chaos SM.

Its as probable as me having units of deamon princes "counting as" first founding loyalist astartes or GK terminators with plague conversions counting as fallen GKs in the servidce of nurgle.
The fluff feel of having GK marines with their ultra-pro-imperial rules "counting as" chaos marines is just to much.

But if you show me official fluff and/or rules that say the standard Alpha legion marine comes with a force weapon, their whole warhosts consist of marine psychers and their forges produce aegis terminator armours for their common troop tactical squads then you have me sold.

Until then, dream on.

Oh, I'll be living the dream indeed, as GW has already said I can!

And, the background material in general shows us just how much more 'powerful' an Astartes is compared to a regular human. This is very well represented here.

The limitations will be the same as any "GK" force - points costs and, most likely, lack of long range Anti-Tank.

And really, what a strange gaming area you must live it!

More people accepting of FW rules than Official GW Approved "Counts As" rules?

Alpharius wrote:They are as many unconfirmed reports of 'exactly' how the Legion operates "today" as their are confirmed reports - the beauty of the Alpha Legion is that, really, anything goes.

Maybe one day GW will just realize that Chaos Cultists belong in the Chaos Codex; that sabotaging fodder is as characteful as it gets. Given different writers philosophies, unfortunately I doubt we'd ever get them unless Cruddace does it... that leaves some shuttering.

Pyriel strikes me as the kinda guy who couldn't enjoy movies like Live Free or Die Hard because of the kid hacking into national security mainframes in about 30 seconds.