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I hope the new edition will be a lot more balanced and bring additional options to Codexes via erratas/FAQ or other. For example, by taking extra Saga on my HQ for 30 points all SW troops could not be shot at on the roll of 4+. This could be balanced by prohibiting flamers for Skyclaw jump infantry and bikers.

CainTheHunter wrote:I hope the new edition will be a lot more balanced and bring additional options to Codexes via erratas/FAQ or other. For example, by taking extra Saga on my HQ for 30 points all SW troops could not be shot at on the roll of 4+. This could be balanced by prohibiting flamers for Skyclaw jump infantry and bikers.

Sounds like Stealth Marine talk to me, boy.

Altruizine wrote:

Archonate wrote:
And they corrected themselves by making 4th and 5th ed books nice collections of subtle symbolism... Did those rulebooks have a lot of trouble selling for their lack of SM covers or something?

That observation is only relevant if you plan to go a step further and claim that non-SM covers would sell more.

Actually, no. It has relevancy outside of such a claim.
With a company that has a some-what flat earnings curve and steadily declining customer base, the risk of alienating more of the customer base definitely has relevance.

Now, what is wrong with speculating that non-sm covers might improve sales?
Heck, Army/facton specific covers could easily be profitable. Battlefoams steady expansion would seem to support that at least offering army specific covers(Dust covers?) Could be both profitable and a way for GW to help non-sm players feel like they are also valued customers.

Altruizine wrote:They symbolize the fictional universe more acutely than any other race does, and it's totally fitting and proper for them to be splattered all over the cover, to the exclusion of everything else.

Saying that SM symbolize the 40K universe is like claiming that Breotonians symbolize WHFB. It just is not the case for a large part of the player base. Imo, this is the one thing that I would like to see imported from Fantasy, faction balance. This change alone could actually increase GWs customer base and help revitalize the 40K community.

CainTheHunter wrote:I hope the new edition will be a lot more balanced and bring additional options to Codexes via erratas/FAQ or other. For example, by taking extra Saga on my HQ for 30 points all SW troops could not be shot at on the roll of 4+. This could be balanced by prohibiting flamers for Skyclaw jump infantry and bikers.

...that sounds insane. A huge, army-wide buff and the only downside: not being able to use flamers on units no SW player uses anyway? A buff, mind you, for a tier 1 army that doesn't really need the extra help.

I'll be the first to agree with anyone who says GW doesn't know how to write good rules, but this kinda stuff is proof enough that the fans can't necessarily do any better.

And I was just trying to be sarcastic...

Saying that SM symbolize the 40K universe is like claiming that Breotonians symbolize WHFB.

Aside from how Bretonians are nowhere near as pivotal a part of the setting, or as popular sales-wise...

CainTheHunter wrote:And I was just trying to be sarcastic...

Then you did a poor job conveying that sarcasm. I'm not sure I even get what the sarcastic part was supposed to be, was the obviously overpowered rule being a "balanced" edition to one of the most powerful codices in the game supposed to be the joke? Because considering how often people make suggestions just like that while being dead serious about it, I still don't find it very funny. lol.

Captain Avatar wrote:
Saying that SM symbolize the 40K universe is like claiming that Breotonians symbolize WHFB. It just is not the case for a large part of the player base. Imo, this is the one thing that I would like to see imported from Fantasy, faction balance. This change alone could actually increase GWs customer base and help revitalize the 40K community.

Empire would be the SM equivelent in WHFB, and the front of the WHFB books? They have a warhammer on the front, as in the Hammer of Sigmar, and Chaos and Empire troops in the background. The game is named after the Warhammer of Sigmar and the 40K logo is a stylized imperial aquila.

Anyhoo, the image dose look more like a codex image than the rulebook, appart from not having DARKANGELS across it, and having the Gimdark tagline. Personaly I think it probably is the new rulebook, but would not be shocked to find out it is a pre-production proof of the DA codex. Or a shopped version of the DA codex removing the DARKANGELS to make it look like the new rulebook to upset people. That would mean however that someone had a copy of the DA codex. I don't think it is 100% fake as that is new art AFAIK.

What I am sure of is that those are DA and not BT.

Then you did a poor job conveying that sarcasm.

No he didn't. It was fine. Actually, it's an old joke about the way GW balances their product. They give some insane advantage with a negligible drawback just for appearances sake.

They have a warhammer on the front, as in the Hammer of Sigmar, and Chaos and Empire troops in the background. The game is named after the Warhammer of Sigmar and the 40K logo is a stylized imperial aquila.

Indeed. Warhammer games have always been about humanity's eternal struggle against Chaos. Everything else is just added layers so that it can be a game with more than just two factions. In 40K especially the Emperor and his Space Marines are central to the entire universe. All the other races are basically just opponents for the Space Marine players to beat. Someone has to play the ugly Genestealers so that the heroic Terminators can splatter something all over the walls. Even the Imperial Guard is a sort of a side show. As far as rule book covers go, Rogue Trader had Crimson Fists in the cover too so the decision has multiple precedents from the past, including the original. I think it's perfectly cool and allright to have Dark Angels in the cover and I don't play Space Marines of any flavour anymore myself. I think the people who claim 40K isn't mostly about Space Marines are new to the game, or simply delusional.

I'd prefer the main rulebook to have a neutral cover, but it could be a better marketing choice to feature Marines.

And saying the 40K universe doesn't evolve around the Imperium & Marines is pretty ignorant, because it quite obviously does.

Honestly I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the background revolving mostly around the Marines, as long as the game rules were balanced so every race was viable to play. What most people have a problem with are Marines being the poster boys, and having the best rules, and often being the cheapest army to collect/play (even with $75 land raiders or $82 storm ravens).

Reivax26 wrote:Please let random charge distances be just some stupid thing thrown in the thread to piss me off and not the truth...

I am standing 2 inches away from an enemy mob....I need to charge them but there is the possibility I could roll snake eyes and be blinded all to hell and stumble around for no reason at all.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense...

I've had that happen more than a few times in 5th edition.

Captain Avatar wrote:Saying that SM symbolize the 40K universe is like claiming that Breotonians symbolize WHFB.

Wilful ignorance is unbecoming, Captain. Space Marines outsell pretty much everything GW does. GW exists as it does today because of Space Marines. They aren't just the symbol of 40K, they're the symbol of the whole company. Wake up.

Sidstyler wrote:Honestly I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the background revolving mostly around the Marines, as long as the game rules were balanced so every race was viable to play. What most people have a problem with are Marines being the poster boys, and having the best rules, and often being the cheapest army to collect/play (even with $75 land raiders or $82 storm ravens).

Saying all marine armies have the best rules is simply incorrect. BT and C:SM are at the bottom of the power curve right now. IG, DE, and Necrons all have codex's that are easily better than those 2.

Generally, the latest codex' are the most powerful ('Nids being the notable exception). Its been that way for years, as it helps GW to sell models.
You could argue that because every other codex release is a MEQ, its giving an unfair balance to the MEQ armies. Its not the power armor, it the codex release date.

Sigvatr wrote:The new rumors seem like total bogus to me. Necrons would be rocking everyone's vehicles left and right - spam Warriors and glance everything to death in seconds.

Infantry? Here we go Wraiths.

Necron armies all the way. But then we'll see less fully mech armies.

Saying that SM symbolize the 40K universe is like claiming that Breotonians symbolize WHFB. It just is not the case for a large part of the player base. Imo, this is the one thing that I would like to see imported from Fantasy, faction balance. This change alone could actually increase GWs customer base and help revitalize the 40K community.

I can only assume you're extremely new to the hobby or just hate SMs so much to the point of repressing the truth. Space Marines have *always* been the basis for the lore of the game. They were the main characters of Rogue Trader and every single edition after that.

As others have said, the counterpart in WFB is Empire.. not Brettonians (However, due to sales being more balanced in WFB you don't have the same level of focus)

I might be mistaken, but does not Chaos gets the most of sales in WFB? Although not ideologically, but in terms of army building Fantasy Chaos is an equivavelent of SM. Points-wise expensive units, so You don't have to buy/paint a lot, pretty straightforward painting schemes etc.
I would have commented about CSM in 40K as well, but unlike in Fantasy, in 40k Chaos just puts spikes on Imperial stuff, and probably should not even need a separate release (sarcasm here).

Heck the stacking stuns finally makes that wall of falcons able to die i mean at least me stacking the 5 lowest dice is still going to kill 1 vehicle.

Jidmah wrote: d1000 (It's a huge d10 with a d10 inside, that has another d10 inside).

Yo dog, I heard you like dice, so we put a die inside a die...

Necron armies all the way.

Don't forget that in the rumoured rule set the living metal is light years ahead of fortitude in terms of defensive ability. Living metal gives a saving throw against all of those shaken and stunned results that would soon kill you because they stack into more dangerous results. Fortitude just cancels the effects of shaken and stunned at the start of the GK's own turn -- Only the GK vehicles will never get to use it because they're dead.

I think almost all of the rumoured rule changes specifically improve the Necrons, and they were already very good. Bonuses for jump infantry assault troops, FNP nerf to be in line with RP, glances being much more dangerous to vehicles (I'm not talking about Gauss Flayers but Tesla Destructors -- Who cares if AP- is -1 to damage chart if all you need is a few glances and the target is auto-destroyed since you covered all the results), fast vehicles being harder to hit (and being harder to hit is better than just having more armor now plus Tesla Destructors are mostly twin-linked so you'll see more 6's yourself), moving chargers being before the shooting phase (Scarabs and Wraiths don't have any shooting weapons that they don't get to shoot), vehicles being easier to hit in close combat directly buffs Scarabs, preferred enemy now working for Destroyers and Destroyer Lords, etc. Those flat out skimmer vehicles being hit with 6's with shooting weapons is absolutely hilarious for CCB Overlords who can move flat out all game and inflict the sweep attacks every turn.

Rarely if ever has a new rule set so much buffed an existing army. It only proves that when Ward designed Codex: Necrons he had the new edition rulebook in his hands already.

Added these to the tracking thread. Happy Monday!

Maybe the cover is a throwback to the early years.
You know 25th anniversary, a bit like the crimson fist model.

Mezmaron wrote:
Power weapons are ap3 but give a 5++ parry save in combat.

Elder would be getting horribly shafted. Can't wait till my Banshees go from being Termi-killers to basically expensive Storm Guardians against them.

Glass cannons to basically just glass.

mercury14 wrote:

Mezmaron wrote:
Power weapons are ap3 but give a 5++ parry save in combat.

Elder would be getting horribly shafted. Can't wait till my Banshees go from being Termi-killers to basically expensive Storm Guardians against them.

Glass cannons to basically just glass.

Banshees don't have an Invul in CC right now, do they? 5++ with Fortune? 5/9 chance of saving against power weapons. That's a bit better than they have now.

mercury14 wrote:

Mezmaron wrote:
Power weapons are ap3 but give a 5++ parry save in combat.

Elder would be getting horribly shafted. Can't wait till my Banshees go from being Termi-killers to basically expensive Storm Guardians against them.

Glass cannons to basically just glass.

Really?

How many 2+ save armies are you seeing on the board today? I only know a few of them. Out of those, remember Banshees still fail vs TH/SS termies with the 3+ invuln save.
The vast majority of them are still 3+ save models, and are excellent targets for banshees.

So the banshees would be trading the ability to kill TAC terminators and Paladins for a 5++ parry save. Honestly that seems like a good deal to me.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=2700146

New spot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh...

See this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/456259.page

Sidstyler wrote:

CainTheHunter wrote:And I was just trying to be sarcastic...

Then you did a poor job conveying that sarcasm. I'm not sure I even get what the sarcastic part was supposed to be, was the obviously overpowered rule being a "balanced" edition to one of the most powerful codices in the game supposed to be the joke? Because considering how often people make suggestions just like that while being dead serious about it, I still don't find it very funny. lol.

Perhaps you did a poor job at picking it up? I understood it just fine and I would assume others did too, because your the only one who felt the need to take that errant poster to task and tell him how ridiculous he was being.

pretre wrote:

mercury14 wrote:

Mezmaron wrote:
Power weapons are ap3 but give a 5++ parry save in combat.

Elder would be getting horribly shafted. Can't wait till my Banshees go from being Termi-killers to basically expensive Storm Guardians against them.

Glass cannons to basically just glass.

Banshees don't have an Invul in CC right now, do they? 5++ with Fortune? 5/9 chance of saving against power weapons. That's a bit better than they have now.

The answer to terminators is supported dire avengers anyway. Cause 40+ wounds and you're going to be left with 3 out of 10 terminators presuming it was a full squad. Banshees just sort of broke on the rocks of storm shields before anyway.

ShumaGorath wrote:

pretre wrote:

mercury14 wrote:

Mezmaron wrote:
Power weapons are ap3 but give a 5++ parry save in combat.

Elder would be getting horribly shafted. Can't wait till my Banshees go from being Termi-killers to basically expensive Storm Guardians against them.

Glass cannons to basically just glass.

Banshees don't have an Invul in CC right now, do they? 5++ with Fortune? 5/9 chance of saving against power weapons. That's a bit better than they have now.

The answer to terminators is supported dire avengers anyway. Cause 40+ wounds and you're going to be left with 3 out of 10 terminators presuming it was a full squad. Banshees just sort of broke on the rocks of storm shields before anyway.

How are you coming up with 40+ wounds? Are you assuming multiple squads disembarked wave serpents and blade-stormed a single unit of termies?

9 Dire Avengers Blade Storm = 27 shots.
1 Exach w/ dual cats = 5 shots.

32 Shots per unit assuming no casualties. Thats about 21 hits and 10.5 wounds before saves. So about 2 unsaved wounds if your lucky. To kill 7 terminators and stay in averages it's going to take 3 full squads of DA's bladestorming a unit of termies at a range of 18 inches away. (Even if they were guided and the termies were doomed you add about 3.5 wounds before armor saves.)

Hardly a terminator killer....and besides, in this current incarnation of 40k, squads of DA's 10 strong with a full exarch kit plus a cheap serpent are 252 points and rarely ran in that fashion. Yay for 750 points of Dire Avengers being needed to kill a unit of termies.

Thunderfrog wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

pretre wrote:

mercury14 wrote:

Mezmaron wrote:
Power weapons are ap3 but give a 5++ parry save in combat.

Elder would be getting horribly shafted. Can't wait till my Banshees go from being Termi-killers to basically expensive Storm Guardians against them.

Glass cannons to basically just glass.

Banshees don't have an Invul in CC right now, do they? 5++ with Fortune? 5/9 chance of saving against power weapons. That's a bit better than they have now.

The answer to terminators is supported dire avengers anyway. Cause 40+ wounds and you're going to be left with 3 out of 10 terminators presuming it was a full squad. Banshees just sort of broke on the rocks of storm shields before anyway.

How are you coming up with 40+ wounds? Are you assuming multiple squads disembarked wave serpents and blade-stormed a single unit of termies?

9 Dire Avengers Blade Storm = 27 shots.
1 Exach w/ dual cats = 5 shots.

32 Shots per unit assuming no casualties. Thats about 21 hits and 10.5 wounds before saves. So about 2 unsaved wounds if your lucky. To kill 7 terminators and stay in averages it's going to take 3 full squads of DA's bladestorming a unit of termies at a range of 18 inches away. (Even if they were guided and the termies were doomed you add about 3.5 wounds before armor saves.)

Hardly a terminator killer....and besides, in this current incarnation of 40k, squads of DA's 10 strong with a full exarch kit plus a cheap serpent are 252 points and rarely ran in that fashion. Yay for 750 points of Dire Avengers being needed to kill a unit of termies.

Yes, I am presuming more than one squad. 3.5+3.5 = 7 meaning 3 remaining. Terminators are a high value target worthy of saturation. 504 points of DAs to make a 400-500 point termy squad combat innefective seems fine to me.