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Considering the Panacea War was basically fought over the results of one, and that Commissar Gaunt found one (albeit this one was Corrupted), there is a better-than-zero chance that one exists. Somewhere.

In fact, wouldn't it be a twist if the reason the Tau are as advanced as they are is because they found a semi-functional STC on their homeworld?

Well, there are 2 types of STCs.

There is the kind Gaunt found, which is a nano-fabricator which has some STC blueprints inside(the blueprints sometimes being called STCs)

And then there is an STC proper. Which is the intact computer which contains all of mankinds knowledge.

At this point, the former is found fairly regularly, and the latter is sometimes found but its always partially corrupted(information-wise)

Its an uncorrupted, or even just mostly infact, STC computer which the Ad Mech wants to find.

If they even had a fraction of the data from one of those, Mankind would wipe everyone out for sure. Not that its not possible now.

A fully working STC computer with the entire ancient database intact is almost certainly not something that would be found, barring any Necron dickery. STC machines with singular designs on their memory banks are far more common, and some are in fact still in human hands, though not all of those still function.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Tau found an STC cache at some point. In fact, I've been thinking of writing some aul fiction on that very subject. Because I'm a nerd.

However, I think it's more likely that the cultural shock of having aliens visit you, shorter lifespans and the arrival/emergence of the Ethereals (who know more than they let on) that has pushed Tau technological development ultimately.

 Psienesis wrote:

 GreaterGoodIreland wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
IRT the OP, as STC has been described as the pinnacle of human knowledge and innovation during what is now called the Dark Age of Technology, I would have to ask if there is a reason to believe that it *isn't* human technology?

I doubt the STC builders shared the Mechanicus view on alien technology. They probably developed their technology themselves as well as taking the scientific implications of xenotech in order to create shortcuts or adapt new principles.

That doesn't mean archeotech is "alien" though, it just means they understood the science and encorporated it into their own. Much like another race I could mention.

Then given that the examples of archaeotech provided in the fluff far outstrips anything that any faction, other than the Necrons (in totality) and the Eldar (selectively), have displayed, we can then conclude that, at its height, human technology surpassed that which the Tau currently possess and, given what has been revealed of STC in general, should the Imperium acquire a complete one, they would outstrip the Tau entirely. It is not hard to imagine that, with such levels of technology available, such an event would spell the doom of a number of factions, not least of which being the Tau.

Again- I'm not sure there's anything that says, for certain, that the high-points of "archaeotech" are, in fact, man-made.

Isn't it just as likely that the original STCs were made by the Old Ones, and that humanity's original leap forward came simply from figuring them out?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GreaterGoodIreland wrote:
A fully working STC computer with the entire ancient database intact is almost certainly not something that would be found, barring any Necron dickery. STC machines with singular designs on their memory banks are far more common, and some are in fact still in human hands, though not all of those still function.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Tau found an STC cache at some point. In fact, I've been thinking of writing some aul fiction on that very subject. Because I'm a nerd.

However, I think it's more likely that the cultural shock of having aliens visit you, shorter lifespans and the arrival/emergence of the Ethereals (who know more than they let on) that has pushed Tau technological development ultimately.

I dunno. Finding a tomb world full of (data-(corrupted) or "dead" Necrons might make for a more interesting tale.

It'd also be a book that had nothing to do with the Emperor-damned Imperium.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Again- I'm not sure there's anything that says, for certain, that the high-points of "archaeotech" are, in fact, man-made.

Isn't it just as likely that the original STCs were made by the Old Ones, and that humanity's original leap forward came simply from figuring them out?

If I recall correctly STC's are explicitly stated to contain human knowledge and technology and to have been developed during the Dark Age of Technology. So they could not have been developed by the Old Ones. It would also ruin the concept of humanity having fallen so low. If their technology was much the same as it is now then you don't have the same sense of decay.

I'd find it more likely that Tau technology is based off of Eldar technology than human technology is from xenos. Both Tau and Eldar focus on mobility and firepower. They like to mislead the enemy with technology so they miss rather than use additional armour. They use anti-grav systems extensively They prefer not to fight unnecessary battles. The main difference is that the Tau focus exclusively on ranged power as they are inept in close combat.

Though I doubt the Tau really did get their technology from Eldar.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Again- I'm not sure there's anything that says, for certain, that the high-points of "archaeotech" are, in fact, man-made.

Isn't it just as likely that the original STCs were made by the Old Ones, and that humanity's original leap forward came simply from figuring them out?

If I recall correctly STC's are explicitly stated to contain human knowledge and technology and to have been developed during the Dark Age of Technology. So they could not have been developed by the Old Ones. It would also ruin the concept of humanity having fallen so low. If their technology was much the same as it is now then you don't have the same sense of decay.

... but wouldn't it make sense that all human vehicles lack night vision tech because the race that actually built them didn't need it? That'd explain why they have to strap on searchlights.

Well its canon that Tau have poor eyesight relative to humans. being herbivore and not carnivore descendents.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Well its canon that Tau have poor eyesight relative to humans. being herbivore and not carnivore descendents.

Tau take longer to focus on distant objects, that's essentially the only disadvantage there. Their eyesight on average is good with respect to visual fidelity.

Also, the Tau eat meat and have since their pre-technological days. The entire Fire Caste are the descendants of hunters.
Note that humans are also descended from herbivores, our precursor species started scavenging meat at some point and we became omnivores. I would imagine the same thing was the case with the Tau.

Although what that has to do with their eyesight or the resulting motivation to have better visual equipment, I haven't the slightest clue.

Tau actually have a greater sight range than us, seeming slightly into the infa-red and ultra-violet spectrums. Not really all that usesful, but pretty cool none-the-less.

And the herbivores is an annoying thing people have picked up on, solely because tau have hooves, or at least appear to. I'd say they evolved from a species on the grasslands, more suited to running, not climbing like us.

We just had the discussion about how human tech is stocked full of night vision gear, so that angle of attack can be dropped completely.

Also, there's a lot of poor information being thrown aroudn here.

There's only one thing called an STC. An STC is a box that makes things. What it can make is determied by an STC wafer - the data disks that have individual recipes on them.

When they were deployed, all STC devices had a full set of STC wafers.

STC wafers are highly fragile, and most of them have broken down or been damaged to the point of unusability. Most STC wafers that are found in tact are found separated from their STC machine.

I think that this is part of the conclusive evidence that humans built the STC wafers.

The Old Ones and the Necrons would have thought to use solid storage on a massive internal hard drive and indexed it properly to allow the thing to search properly.

It takes a special kind of stupid - a human kind of stupid - to put each design on an individual disk that has to be put into the machine to make it work.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Again- I'm not sure there's anything that says, for certain, that the high-points of "archaeotech" are, in fact, man-made.

Isn't it just as likely that the original STCs were made by the Old Ones, and that humanity's original leap forward came simply from figuring them out?

If I recall correctly STC's are explicitly stated to contain human knowledge and technology and to have been developed during the Dark Age of Technology. So they could not have been developed by the Old Ones. It would also ruin the concept of humanity having fallen so low. If their technology was much the same as it is now then you don't have the same sense of decay.

... but wouldn't it make sense that all human vehicles lack night vision tech because the race that actually built them didn't need it? That'd explain why they have to strap on searchlights.

one thing to keep in mind is the way the STC system worked is it was used on a planet and would spit out plans for something upon request that would be adapted to work in the local enviroment. thus a lot if not msot STC designs likely aren't made with the best technology, but for the nesscary requirements of the local enviroment. The Rhino for example, likely was something intended to be easy to build. and the type of thing a struggling colony with a poor tech base could build in it's garage as needed. and rememebr that stuff is now lost. and the IoM is absicly running around trying to find copies of designs spat out by those things people have written down. Which means the IoM likely isn't manafacturing the best stuff.

Effectivly they're building a Military using plans for a T-38 Talon trainer as their main combat craft. a Brinks armored car as their APC, a sherman Tank as their primary tank, etc.

Sherman's a bit generous. They're more like the Bob Semple Tank.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Sherman's a bit generous. They're more like the Bob Semple Tank.

true, still my point stands that it's stuff eaither obselete or simply not intended for frontline military use if even military use at all.

BrianDavion wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Again- I'm not sure there's anything that says, for certain, that the high-points of "archaeotech" are, in fact, man-made.

Isn't it just as likely that the original STCs were made by the Old Ones, and that humanity's original leap forward came simply from figuring them out?

If I recall correctly STC's are explicitly stated to contain human knowledge and technology and to have been developed during the Dark Age of Technology. So they could not have been developed by the Old Ones. It would also ruin the concept of humanity having fallen so low. If their technology was much the same as it is now then you don't have the same sense of decay.

... but wouldn't it make sense that all human vehicles lack night vision tech because the race that actually built them didn't need it? That'd explain why they have to strap on searchlights.

one thing to keep in mind is the way the STC system worked is it was used on a planet and would spit out plans for something upon request that would be adapted to work in the local enviroment. thus a lot if not msot STC designs likely aren't made with the best technology, but for the nesscary requirements of the local enviroment. The Rhino for example, likely was something intended to be easy to build. and the type of thing a struggling colony with a poor tech base could build in it's garage as needed. and rememebr that stuff is now lost. and the IoM is absicly running around trying to find copies of designs spat out by those things people have written down. Which means the IoM likely isn't manafacturing the best stuff.

Effectivly they're building a Military using plans for a T-38 Talon trainer as their main combat craft. a Brinks armored car as their APC, a sherman Tank as their primary tank, etc.

Yeah.
For all we know the lasgun could really be a modified futuristic BB gun.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Again- I'm not sure there's anything that says, for certain, that the high-points of "archaeotech" are, in fact, man-made.

Isn't it just as likely that the original STCs were made by the Old Ones, and that humanity's original leap forward came simply from figuring them out?

If I recall correctly STC's are explicitly stated to contain human knowledge and technology and to have been developed during the Dark Age of Technology. So they could not have been developed by the Old Ones. It would also ruin the concept of humanity having fallen so low. If their technology was much the same as it is now then you don't have the same sense of decay.

... but wouldn't it make sense that all human vehicles lack night vision tech because the race that actually built them didn't need it? That'd explain why they have to strap on searchlights.

Did you miss the part where we showed humans have NV equipment as standard in all vehicles?

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Sherman's a bit generous. They're more like the Bob Semple Tank.

Not even close dude.

The Bob Semple is basically what orks make.

The Sherman is actually a perfect analog to the Lemun Russ. Its cheap and easy to manufacture in very large quantities. Sure, its not the best tank you could make, but its more than adequate. And any shortcomings in its design are compensated by you having 10 of them for every 1 tank your opponent has.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Sherman's a bit generous. They're more like the Bob Semple Tank.

Not even close dude.

The Bob Semple is basically what orks make.

The Sherman is actually a perfect analog to the Lemun Russ. Its cheap and easy to manufacture in very large quantities. Sure, its not the best tank you could make, but its more than adequate. And any shortcomings in its design are compensated by you having 10 of them for every 1 tank your opponent has.

There's also the fact that you can easily modify the sherman.
Amphibious Sherman? Done
Mine Sweeper Sherman? Done
Flame thrower? Done

Its just such a versatile tank. It's also very fragile; they are known as "Tommy Cookers" for a reason.

It was only fragile when you compared it to the 88s Panthers and Tigers were carrying around. And frankly the 88mm was overkill against everything except some of the later Russian vehicles.

When you compare the Sherman to the Panzer IV and StuGIII-IV its actually a roughly equal comparison.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 GreaterGoodIreland wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
IRT the OP, as STC has been described as the pinnacle of human knowledge and innovation during what is now called the Dark Age of Technology, I would have to ask if there is a reason to believe that it *isn't* human technology?

I doubt the STC builders shared the Mechanicus view on alien technology. They probably developed their technology themselves as well as taking the scientific implications of xenotech in order to create shortcuts or adapt new principles.

That doesn't mean archeotech is "alien" though, it just means they understood the science and encorporated it into their own. Much like another race I could mention.

Then given that the examples of archaeotech provided in the fluff far outstrips anything that any faction, other than the Necrons (in totality) and the Eldar (selectively), have displayed, we can then conclude that, at its height, human technology surpassed that which the Tau currently possess and, given what has been revealed of STC in general, should the Imperium acquire a complete one, they would outstrip the Tau entirely. It is not hard to imagine that, with such levels of technology available, such an event would spell the doom of a number of factions, not least of which being the Tau.

Again- I'm not sure there's anything that says, for certain, that the high-points of "archaeotech" are, in fact, man-made.

Isn't it just as likely that the original STCs were made by the Old Ones, and that humanity's original leap forward came simply from figuring them out?

For all we know, the Tau could be an illusion created by the Chaos Gods to troll the galaxy. It all fits together; warp storm showing up when the Imperium shows up the first time, no Warp presence (Daemons ignore them because they're on their side already), no Warp Engines because they're only there to troll the rest of the galaxy.

Hey, it doesn't say this ISN'T the case! Prove me wrong!

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 GreaterGoodIreland wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
IRT the OP, as STC has been described as the pinnacle of human knowledge and innovation during what is now called the Dark Age of Technology, I would have to ask if there is a reason to believe that it *isn't* human technology?

I doubt the STC builders shared the Mechanicus view on alien technology. They probably developed their technology themselves as well as taking the scientific implications of xenotech in order to create shortcuts or adapt new principles.

That doesn't mean archeotech is "alien" though, it just means they understood the science and encorporated it into their own. Much like another race I could mention.

Then given that the examples of archaeotech provided in the fluff far outstrips anything that any faction, other than the Necrons (in totality) and the Eldar (selectively), have displayed, we can then conclude that, at its height, human technology surpassed that which the Tau currently possess and, given what has been revealed of STC in general, should the Imperium acquire a complete one, they would outstrip the Tau entirely. It is not hard to imagine that, with such levels of technology available, such an event would spell the doom of a number of factions, not least of which being the Tau.

Again- I'm not sure there's anything that says, for certain, that the high-points of "archaeotech" are, in fact, man-made.

Isn't it just as likely that the original STCs were made by the Old Ones, and that humanity's original leap forward came simply from figuring them out?

For all we know, the Tau could be an illusion created by the Chaos Gods to troll the galaxy. It all fits together; warp storm showing up when the Imperium shows up the first time, no Warp presence (Daemons ignore them because they're on their side already), no Warp Engines because they're only there to troll the rest of the galaxy.

Hey, it doesn't say this ISN'T the case! Prove me wrong!

The burden of proof lies with the one who claims it to be true.

Not sure about that Templar. The Russ is more like the Iosif Stalin tank. It is the toughest thing on the scene with a big gun. It is a slow but massive machine.

Sherman's were thin skinned death traps.

The Bob Semple comparison was more along the lines of how its a civilian vehicle with armour and guns bolted on.

Well its not accurate in that regard since Russ's are definitely not civilian vehicles with guns and armor. They're full on military designed vehicles.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 GreaterGoodIreland wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
IRT the OP, as STC has been described as the pinnacle of human knowledge and innovation during what is now called the Dark Age of Technology, I would have to ask if there is a reason to believe that it *isn't* human technology?

I doubt the STC builders shared the Mechanicus view on alien technology. They probably developed their technology themselves as well as taking the scientific implications of xenotech in order to create shortcuts or adapt new principles.

That doesn't mean archeotech is "alien" though, it just means they understood the science and encorporated it into their own. Much like another race I could mention.

Then given that the examples of archaeotech provided in the fluff far outstrips anything that any faction, other than the Necrons (in totality) and the Eldar (selectively), have displayed, we can then conclude that, at its height, human technology surpassed that which the Tau currently possess and, given what has been revealed of STC in general, should the Imperium acquire a complete one, they would outstrip the Tau entirely. It is not hard to imagine that, with such levels of technology available, such an event would spell the doom of a number of factions, not least of which being the Tau.

Again- I'm not sure there's anything that says, for certain, that the high-points of "archaeotech" are, in fact, man-made.

Isn't it just as likely that the original STCs were made by the Old Ones, and that humanity's original leap forward came simply from figuring them out?

For all we know, the Tau could be an illusion created by the Chaos Gods to troll the galaxy. It all fits together; warp storm showing up when the Imperium shows up the first time, no Warp presence (Daemons ignore them because they're on their side already), no Warp Engines because they're only there to troll the rest of the galaxy.

Hey, it doesn't say this ISN'T the case! Prove me wrong!

The burden of proof lies with the one who claims it to be true.

Exactly.

The irony is thick on that that statement.

Grey Templar wrote:Well its not accurate in that regard since Russ's are definitely not civilian vehicles with guns and armor. They're full on military designed vehicles.

We were talking about Predators, which are Rhino APCs modified with extra armour and a turret. The Rhino APC is a modified colony rover.

Direct comparison.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Well its not accurate in that regard since Russ's are definitely not civilian vehicles with guns and armor. They're full on military designed vehicles.

We were talking about Predators, which are Rhino APCs modified with extra armour and a turret. The Rhino APC is a modified colony rover.

Direct comparison.

Correct. It gets continued use because it works. The Imperium is the top of the heap for a reason. If you want to see what a vehicle that began as a dedicated military transport looks like, the Land Raider fits the bill. Tougher than almost anything else in the galaxy with plenty of weapon options capable of fulfilling multiple roles.

Leman Russ on the other hand are rock hard MBT that sacrifices maneuverability for armor and weapons.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Well its not accurate in that regard since Russ's are definitely not civilian vehicles with guns and armor. They're full on military designed vehicles.

We were talking about Predators, which are Rhino APCs modified with extra armour and a turret. The Rhino APC is a modified colony rover.

Direct comparison.

Still not really. Because when that Rover was modified it was turned into a full on military vehicle.

The Rhino is 100% a military vehicle. Saying its equivalent to what was literally a civilian vehicle with guns and armor bolted on is just wrong.

Its more like taking the basic design, and upping it to military specs. Similar to what they do to make armored SUVs(which share very little in common with the civilian version besides what they look like. They get an entirely new chassis, body, engine, glass, armored plating, etc...)

The Bob Semple was just taking a civilian vehicle and bolting armor on. The Rhino was taking the same basic measurements as a civilian vehicle and rebuilding an entire new military vehicle with military grade everything.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Well its not accurate in that regard since Russ's are definitely not civilian vehicles with guns and armor. They're full on military designed vehicles.

We were talking about Predators, which are Rhino APCs modified with extra armour and a turret. The Rhino APC is a modified colony rover.

Direct comparison.

Still not really. Because when that Rover was modified it was turned into a full on military vehicle.

The Rhino is 100% a military vehicle. Saying its equivalent to what was literally a civilian vehicle with guns and armor bolted on is just wrong.

Its more like taking the basic design, and upping it to military specs. Similar to what they do to make armored SUVs(which share very little in common with the civilian version besides what they look like. They get an entirely new chassis, body, engine, glass, armored plating, etc...)

The Bob Semple was just taking a civilian vehicle and bolting armor on. The Rhino was taking the same basic measurements as a civilian vehicle and rebuilding an entire new military vehicle with military grade everything.

so a Hummvee vs a Hummer?

Yeah. They are totally different underneath.

But I don't buy that the rhino is that different from the original rovers. They are only slightly more durable than the ork trukks after all. I think Predators are a sign of heavily modified rhinos upgraded for military use.