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Look everyone the question was answered so I propse we start a new thread called "Tau vs. IoM; who has the better tech?" This way everything is contained. Oh and add a poll.

 Desubot wrote:
And how does this really have anything to do with the topic at hand.

Its shown that the IOM had and made Grav tech, Super high powered lasers that can slag anything at a range further than a hammer head, All sorts of crazy medical and stasis tech. then everything changed when gak got real with psykers and AI

Whats to say Tau wont have the same issues when there AI goes buggy.

I have little doubt the Tau may have problems with AI on some level. Who knows, maybe they'd just shrug, consider AIs to be persons under the Greater Good and carry on. Or the possibility I consider coolest, a sort of Cylon War after a huge expansion of the Empire. But that's not in the setting of 999.M41 or before.

The pinnacle of Imperial technology is in the past, whereas the Tau's most probably lies in the future and they outstrip the *current* level of Imperial understanding of the material universe by some degree. Though that's only because of the Mechanicus' reliance on archeotech, their own superstition and bans on unholy innovation.

PhillyT, if unauthorised innovation can get you branded a heretek, "allowing new designs" tends to mean reworking existing technologies more than actually making something new. If the Mechanicus understood as much as you imply, the Imperium would not have regressed technologically. The reason for this is the one you yourself give: Why bother understanding the actual science behind technologies when you can get them handed to you on a plate via archeotech?

They understand it though. They just don't see the point in trying to innovate when they assume, and rightly so, that the best they can achieve has already happened and they just need to find it again.

The grimdark fluff claims that they struggle to repair or understand some stuff, but that is as much to set the tone as anything else. It doesn't actually make sense and you should generally pause when that occurs. The FW books have a a tendency to be more "realistic" with the fluff. They take a more practical and less fanciful approach.

As far as the Tau having a future, I doubt it. If the overall fluff is to be believed, within 1000 years everything will be obliterated. Things are supposed to come to a head within a couple hundred years.

Honestly see a lot more Necrons and Nids in the Taus future

 Desubot wrote:
Honestly see a lot more Necrons and Nids in the Taus future

I see plenty of both in everyone's future. Though the Nids might be more inclined to bypass the Tau considering they're nomming towards the Astronomican in the first place. Though that's assuming most of the new hive fleets will emerge from under or above the galactic plane like the latest ones did.

lolcrons are going to be a bitch though.

 GreaterGoodIreland wrote:

lolcrons are going to be a bitch though.

I think everyone can agree on that

Anyway this thread has lost all focus. the question has been answered as a gigantic who the feth knows. not much to discuss at this point

The necrons won't be that bad. They'll just want their sword back

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The necrons won't be that bad. They'll just want their sword back

Ha, I certainly hope so. Means Farsight will take the brunt of their ire.


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 Desubot wrote:

 GreaterGoodIreland wrote:

lolcrons are going to be a bitch though.

I think everyone can agree on that

Anyway this thread has lost all focus. the question has been answered as a gigantic who the feth knows. not much to discuss at this point

Go with the flow, I always say. Or not.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
You mis-understand tau. There is no buying things, you are given it. You are given high-tech stuff that is for your job. The earth caste )which are the workers) use things like drones to help with their jobs.


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 PhillyT wrote:
So you are arguing that the median technology for the tau is equal to their specific warrior caste?

Okay. Who is the Imperiums warrior caste?

No, I am arguing that all castes have the same level of tech. For tau, civilian tech is just as important as military tech.

This is conjecture. No where does it discuss how to the Tau do business. If they did not believe in a free market, than they would abolish it on the human worlds they conquered.

 Macharius. wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
You mis-understand tau. There is no buying things, you are given it. You are given high-tech stuff that is for your job. The earth caste )which are the workers) use things like drones to help with their jobs.


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 PhillyT wrote:
So you are arguing that the median technology for the tau is equal to their specific warrior caste?

Okay. Who is the Imperiums warrior caste?

No, I am arguing that all castes have the same level of tech. For tau, civilian tech is just as important as military tech.

This is conjecture. No where does it discuss how to the Tau do business. If they did not believe in a free market, than they would abolish it on the human worlds they conquered.

Well... we do know that drone use is incredibly widespread. We also know the Tau are generally content to let many of their allies (I'm looking at you, Kroot) keep their way of life, so long as they follow the Tau's lead.


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 GreaterGoodIreland wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Honestly see a lot more Necrons and Nids in the Taus future

I see plenty of both in everyone's future. Though the Nids might be more inclined to bypass the Tau considering they're nomming towards the Astronomican in the first place. Though that's assuming most of the new hive fleets will emerge from under or above the galactic plane like the latest ones did.

lolcrons are going to be a bitch though.

... they're also mostly focused in the opposite end of the galaxy from the Tau.

Crons will eventually be a problem, and there are splinter fleets that occasionally shot up, but it's mostly the IoM that is set against the Tau Empire, and the IoM is mostly losing that war.

Pretty much all indicators point to the Nids coming from somewhere to the galactic east. So the Tau Empire lies directly between the Hive Mind and Terra. Not good.

Of course, there is hope in that they could bypass the galactic plane like Leviathan did and attack the interior of the Imperium as opposed to bothering their arses ploughing through thousands if not millions of defended star systems.

Also, many of the major Necron dynasties are in Ultima Segmentum, i.e. the opposite area to where the Eldar Empire's core was, i.e. the Eye of Terror. Ultima is a big place to say the least, but it's fairly certain that the Tau will transgress on former lolcron territories as they have in the past.

As for Tau and economics, it's mentioned many times that the Water caste include merchants. There is some sort of market economy in the Tau Empire, and they use that as a weapon in itself to draw in backwater Imperial worlds with promises of greater prosperity.

However, it's also clear that the Tau do not value individual wealth. Their philosophy places no value on wealth and emphasizes the whole over the individual. On top of that, their technology allows them to live without much of the drudgery that either we in reality or our would-be descendants in 40k have to deal with.

Think Scandinavian social democracy with technology that essentially elevates the working class into non-existence.

 Macharius. wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
You mis-understand tau. There is no buying things, you are given it. You are given high-tech stuff that is for your job. The earth caste )which are the workers) use things like drones to help with their jobs.


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 PhillyT wrote:
So you are arguing that the median technology for the tau is equal to their specific warrior caste?

Okay. Who is the Imperiums warrior caste?

No, I am arguing that all castes have the same level of tech. For tau, civilian tech is just as important as military tech.

This is conjecture. No where does it discuss how to the Tau do business. If they did not believe in a free market, than they would abolish it on the human worlds they conquered.

When did I say they didn't?


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I've alwas imagined it where individual septs (or even worlds) are free to trade with eachother.

I'd like to point out that a lot of modern night vision equipment uses searchlights. you know, infra red?


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Also I would like to point out we have gotten a litte of topic and seem to have instead started arguing over who has the best tech, tau or iom.

Back to the op question. yes it is reasonable to believe that the archotech of iom is of human design or at the most influenced by xenos tech. The majority of the daot was of human origin as they didn't have the old ones to direct them like the eldar did or the tau did. similar to the way orks are.


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and by tau I mean the eldar guided them, not the old ones before you try to eviscerate me and strangle me with my own intestinal tract.

Careful, the resident Tau lovers like to ignore the whole Alien interventionism when talking about how wonderful their army is!

 PhillyT wrote:
Careful, the resident Tau lovers like to ignore the whole Alien interventionism when talking about how wonderful their army is!

What is that?

 PhillyT wrote:
Careful, the resident Tau lovers like to ignore the whole Alien interventionism when talking about how wonderful their army is!

Actually, I'm pretty certain that the Eldar did tinker with the Tau, probably as a VERY long term strategy against Chaos.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
Careful, the resident Tau lovers like to ignore the whole Alien interventionism when talking about how wonderful their army is!

What is that?

Whatever race planted the Ethereals after modifying them. As in, the Tua aren't really even responsible for their own unification and technological know how. They owe most of it to other alien races.

 PhillyT wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
Careful, the resident Tau lovers like to ignore the whole Alien interventionism when talking about how wonderful their army is!

What is that?

Whatever race planted the Ethereals after modifying them. As in, the Tua aren't really even responsible for their own unification and technological know how. They owe most of it to other alien races.

Only if it is true. It is still not proven in the fluff, it is just a theory. They are however responsible for their tech. They have invented almost all of their own tech (warp drives is the only example I can think of off the top of my head), it's not like they just got given it. I'll give you unification though, that's all the etherials (who may or may not be put by the eldar or others)

 PhillyT wrote:
Whatever race planted the Ethereals after modifying them. As in, the Tua aren't really even responsible for their own unification and technological know how. They owe most of it to other alien races.

There's no evidence to suggest that most Tau tech is from elsewhere. The only canon reference to them acquiring technologies from other races that they use themselves is their acquisition of Ion Cannon technology from the Demuirg and warp engines, and they understand Ion Cannons now to the point of making the weapons of Riptides possible anyway. They certainly don't use most Imperial weapons, which they regard as crude or inferior, or both.

Ion tech was a big gift. Similarly, we know that something left the ethereals and fired up the warp storms.

There is nothing natural about the tau progression, despite the strange misplaced pride of tau fans.

It's funny how you keep going on about tau fans, when you seem determined to rip tau down. Not everybody is like nortall. I will readily admit that the imperium has plenty of stuff more advanced than tau, but you seem to be arguing that the tau are not technologically advanced because they have a weirf history. By that same logic I could argue that anything invented by a STC does not show technological progress, because humans did not personally design them. Now can we stop this extremely OT discussion and:
a. get back to the topic at hand

b. If you want to keep talking about it, make a new topic.

IRT the OP, as STC has been described as the pinnacle of human knowledge and innovation during what is now called the Dark Age of Technology, I would have to ask if there is a reason to believe that it *isn't* human technology?

 Psienesis wrote:
IRT the OP, as STC has been described as the pinnacle of human knowledge and innovation during what is now called the Dark Age of Technology, I would have to ask if there is a reason to believe that it *isn't* human technology?

I doubt the STC builders shared the Mechanicus view on alien technology. They probably developed their technology themselves as well as taking the scientific implications of xenotech in order to create shortcuts or adapt new principles.

That doesn't mean archeotech is "alien" though, it just means they understood the science and encorporated it into their own. Much like another race I could mention.

Why must every one of of your posts find some way to link back to the blasted blue camels?g

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Why must every one of of your posts find some way to link back to the blasted blue camels?g

Largely because it annoys Imperial fanbhoys.

So, you're admitting to just being a troll out to upset people?

 Furyou Miko wrote:
So, you're admitting to just being a troll out to upset people?

More to challenge the Imperial line than to upset people. Tends to be too many nodding heads when people put the Imperium on a pedastal.

 GreaterGoodIreland wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
So, you're admitting to just being a troll out to upset people?

More to challenge the Imperial line than to upset people. Tends to be too many nodding heads when people put the Imperium on a pedastal.

Well no one really wants to feel the long hard dick of imperial justice so I can understand why.

 GreaterGoodIreland wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
IRT the OP, as STC has been described as the pinnacle of human knowledge and innovation during what is now called the Dark Age of Technology, I would have to ask if there is a reason to believe that it *isn't* human technology?

I doubt the STC builders shared the Mechanicus view on alien technology. They probably developed their technology themselves as well as taking the scientific implications of xenotech in order to create shortcuts or adapt new principles.

That doesn't mean archeotech is "alien" though, it just means they understood the science and encorporated it into their own. Much like another race I could mention.

Then given that the examples of archaeotech provided in the fluff far outstrips anything that any faction, other than the Necrons (in totality) and the Eldar (selectively), have displayed, we can then conclude that, at its height, human technology surpassed that which the Tau currently possess and, given what has been revealed of STC in general, should the Imperium acquire a complete one, they would outstrip the Tau entirely. It is not hard to imagine that, with such levels of technology available, such an event would spell the doom of a number of factions, not least of which being the Tau.

 Psienesis wrote:
Then given that the examples of archaeotech provided in the fluff far outstrips anything that any faction, other than the Necrons (in totality) and the Eldar (selectively), have displayed, we can then conclude that, at its height, human technology surpassed that which the Tau currently possess and, given what has been revealed of STC in general, should the Imperium acquire a complete one, they would outstrip the Tau entirely. It is not hard to imagine that, with such levels of technology available, such an event would spell the doom of a number of factions, not least of which being the Tau.

Oh, there's no doubt about that at all. Humanity reached dizzy heights of know-how during the STC era to say the least. If they ever found a complete STC, the Imperium would sweep all aside.

As of 999.M41, they have yet to find such a system intact however, and somehow, I don't think any such system exists in the 41st Milennium. Unless the Grand Necron Thieving Bastard has one tucked away in his collection or something.