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 Selym wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Lascannons dont move, rest of the unit does. They fire at full BS, re-rolling with prescience (possibly with more rules from orders) like all heavy weapons that don't move within their units. The Lascannons cannot be hidden better in any place on the board than they can in the 40 man blob so they are safer there. In addition it takes away the enemies option to say "Well I cant beat it in melee but I can stop the incoming fire and lessen it". Which they probably WOULD wish to do, thinking from my opponents realistic side of his brain. the Prescience is useful in all phases so having it affect the cannons necessarily gives my melee the boost it also needs without a second casting being necessary so its more efficient use of the Psyker dice as well..

No, no and no. The lascannons are being taken as part of the blob, meaning the *have* to move. The're the same goddamn unit. If you've been playing this where the lascannons don't move all game, but everyone else does, you've been cheating.

Nothing forces them to move in the Movement phase, and 7th made movement-effecting-shooting a model-by-model basis, meaning that a Heavy Weapon trooper can fire at full BS in the shooting phase as long as they didn't move, even if the rest of their units did. That said, they have to still make pile-in and charge moves in the Assault Phase with the rest of the unit (not that the unit should ever be able to do that, though, considering how slow it is).

Akiasura wrote:

What did he kill the tanks with? How many pods did he have...?
And he took dreads? Dreads are terrible.
And this was a BA list?
So...pretty much proves the point that against a bad dex with a bad player, this works fine. Against anyone who knows what they are doing, my idea works fine.

uh... he... killed tanks with the meltas YOU said were a bad idea. Lol.

He had 11 pods... Like i said several times. He took Dreads and Dreads ARENT bad. he hd melta in spades so his Fragiosos were there to do in units just like mine. and they are realy quite good at it if you can get them close which he easily did with the pod. Scatter of course being the wnech she is, he had to wait a turn and by then I immobilized it and later killed it.

You dont know my opponent so you can stuff that opinion. His Dex wasnt why he lost. So give that a rest. he lost because that blob ate him. That blob ATE him. That's it. argue that all day if that's what you wanna do but since you're a science type let me throw this out: RESULTS, not theory, form science.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Akiasura wrote:


Really, its the fact he let a multi-charge happen and didn't take the launchers. Which is different from the scenario I outlined.

Yeah/. he "let me" charge him after podding in. So silly of him.

And this is really the kicker. 220 points in Launchers? Hey if that works for you, cool. But...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Selym wrote:

No, no and no. The lascannons are being taken as part of the blob, meaning the *have* to move. The're the same goddamn unit. If you've been playing this where the lascannons don't move all game, but everyone else does, you've been cheating.

Yet you're dead wrong. You're welcome for the correction.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Also you completely mislead us that don't want to read your stupid blog. "Space Marines" is a lot different than "Blood Angels".

Yes I selected you specifically to be misled. That's right. That's exactly what happened...

The lascannons are an upgrade ro a unit. Tactical marines with lascannon upgrades have to remain in unit coherency, and so to HWT upgrades.
Additionally, firing them precludes charging, too.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.

Akiasura wrote:

Specifically, I am a professor of chemistry and biochemistry at a state university.
I teach general chemistry, physical chemistry, and biochemistry at the graduate level. My research is mainly in cancer treatments, though I've worked on various poisons in the past.

A connection emerges.

 Jancoran wrote:

Akiasura wrote:

What did he kill the tanks with? How many pods did he have...?
And he took dreads? Dreads are terrible.
And this was a BA list?
So...pretty much proves the point that against a bad dex with a bad player, this works fine. Against anyone who knows what they are doing, my idea works fine.

uh... he... killed tanks with the meltas YOU said were a bad idea. Lol.

I said they were a bad idea to drop a dedicated anti-tank unit against an infantry blob. As you like to keep saying, situation is key.
But in general, yes, he's better off taking plasmaguns. The rear armor of most of your tanks is 10/11, so 6 plasma shots are more likely to destroy a tank then 3 MG shots unless the tank in question is open topped.
Since open topped tanks are so rare, and usually have fewer HP anyway, it's not really worth it. Especially with gravstars in the list teleporting around...anything the 6 PG shots in the rear can't handle the gravstar will with split fire.

 Jancoran wrote:

He had 11 pods... Like i said several times. He took Dreads and Dreads ARENT bad. he hd melta in spades so his Fragiosos were there to do in units just like mine. and they are realy quite good at it if you can get them close which he easily did with the pod. Scatter of course being the wnech she is, he had to wait a turn and by then I immobilized it and later killed it.

Yes, the dreads are so good he wounded two guardsmen with a flamer and was immobilized.
Dreads are bad. They have been bad for a very long time, with 2 exceptions; GK dreads (which now you want the Dreadknight, but the Riflemen were great for a while) and the HQ Dread that BA got (this is no longer the case).

11 Pods are a terrible list. It allows you to fight his army in pieces rather than all at once. At any given turn, he is playing with only 50% of an army and that 50% is usually in range of your entire army. If pods had better firepower and could cause 50% casualties, sure, it would be good.
Also, you really don't need that much melta. 2-3 is fine. PG is nearly always superior, you only need a few against AV 14 all around if it shows up. Against Wraithknights, two shots at 7 is better than one at 8 as well.

 Jancoran wrote:

You dont know my opponent so you can stuff that opinion. His Dex wasnt why he lost. So give that a rest. he lost because that blob ate him. That blob ATE him. That's it. argue that all day if that's what you wanna do but since you're a science type let me throw this out: RESULTS, not theory, form science.

This is a common misconception about how science works from people who don't practice it.
When someone publishes something that flies in the face of a well accepted theory, the first thing we do isn't wildly embrace it with passion. We normally dissect it very carefully and find out if any experimental errors were made. Most of the time, that is the case.
You'd be surprised how many scientists spend their time disproving other's research. It's probably more common than original research.

And again, I am not flat out saying his dex made him lose (although BA are pretty terrible, and I was clearly taking about SM the entire time).
I am saying his terrible list building and tactical mistakes made him lose.
Which, you know, is pretty common in a 40k game.
I state these opinions based on what you've told me about his list (Melta spam, which hasn't been good since 5th, taking dreads, taking 11 pods (which has never been good), not taking the upgraded pod gun, being unable to drop in such a way that you don't get a 3 man multi-charge from an incredibly slow unit).

 Jancoran wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Akiasura wrote:


Really, its the fact he let a multi-charge happen and didn't take the launchers. Which is different from the scenario I outlined.

Yeah/. he "let me" charge him after podding in. So silly of him.

It was pretty silly, wasn't it
Hopefully he'll learn from his mistake and deploy a little better. There are diagrams and strategies online from 6th edition on how to drop in against the IG blob if he can't figure it out.

 Jancoran wrote:

And this is really the kicker. 220 points in Launchers? Hey if that works for you, cool. But...

He'd probably have been better off with 220 points in launchers then taking that much melta.
But no, I wouldn't take 220 points in launchers because I would never take 11 drop pods. It's a god awful list, and my meta is pretty competitive with the limitations we've established.
You usually see 3 or 5 at most in pods, since that lets you drop 2-3 squads in turn 1. 2-3 squads is usually enough to destroy most of the tanks people take nowadays, and against most tough infantry, marines in pods don't cut it. You could do sternguard, but they are fragile.
Marines are fast enough where you don't need 11 pods and to deliver your army in nice little chunks to the enemy.

 Jancoran wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Also you completely mislead us that don't want to read your stupid blog. "Space Marines" is a lot different than "Blood Angels".

Yes I selected you specifically to be misled. That's right. That's exactly what happened...

Well, it is a bit misleading since I was clearly talking about marines the entire time, and BA are pretty bad, relatively speaking.
But really the big factors here is that your friend doesn't know how to build an effective army list or deploy correctly.

Either way, it's very different from the examples I posted. Commonly seen units that will destroy the blob in 2 turns.
You could lose the scatter bikes too if you rushed them forward and let them get charged. But considering their speed, 36" range guns, 2d6 move in the assault phase....well...

BA are arguably the worst list in the game, and even worse than that with 11 pods. Please link the actual report so I can see exactly what this person did.

How well would these lists put up with Tesla spam?

Kharne the Befriender wrote:
How well would these lists put up with Tesla spam?

Do you mean the blobs? I would imagine not well, Tesla is pretty good at wound spamming. I'll have to admit I don't often see tesla taken. Necrons as a whole have excellent infantry clearing (Wraiths, Basic warriors are tough, Destroyers, Blades, flayed ones even do the job) but tend to lack anti-tank weapons in mass. They rely on gauss weapon spamming to take down tanks, so that's what you tend to see on the base infantry.

It'd be pretty easy to run a test. Take about 500-600 points of Tesla and see how many wounds it inflicts on this squad and at what range. If you can kill it before it reaches you, it does fine. Necrons in general are pretty tough so I imagine survival isn't a big issue and it would clear the blob with only light casualties.

From what I've read the main issue in ITC is mobility of the blob vis-a-vis Maelstrom VP points.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/10/08/dispatches-from-the-front-know-no-mercy-tournament-report/

Take away the penalties for their mobility and IG can do well.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/10/30/mr-moretanks-harvester-of-souls-gt-report/

I might sound rubbish but that whole discussion about the IG "deathstar" (lol)...NO ONE fething CARE.

ITs not the object of the Thread, you're all too much focused on this, Jancoran said he wins with this in his meta?, then okey he wins with this in his meta, is that going to change your lives?, nope, no it won't.

i know a guy who played that kind of guard blob, never lost against it, its annoying has feth, but i was not impressed by it, but thats in my Meta, not any of the others, so no one fething cares.

So please stop making this the greatest issue of the world, causs it isn't.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
I might sound rubbish but that whole discussion about the IG "deathstar" (lol)...NO ONE fething CARE.

ITs not the object of the Thread, you're all too much focused on this, Jancoran said he wins with this in his meta?, then okey he wins with this in his meta, is that going to change your lives?, nope, no it won't.

i know a guy who played that kind of guard blob, never lost against it, its annoying has feth, but i was not impressed by it, but thats in my Meta, not any of the others, so no one fething cares.

So please stop making this the greatest issue of the world, causs it isn't.

Well, it come up mainly because we were discussing CSM, IG, DE, BA, and Orks are commonly seen as the worst armies and could use a power lift.
We were told we need to learn to play and git good, as these dexes are all fine.
Naturally, many of us took offense to that and well, here we are.

Honestly there isn't a lot to discuss with the original topic. When will other dexes get the tau treatment? Hopefully when the dexes release, which will hopefully be soon. GW doesn't tell anyone anything so we don't have a lot of information unless there is something new in news and rumor.

Akiasura wrote:

Kharne the Befriender wrote:
How well would these lists put up with Tesla spam?

Do you mean the blobs? I would imagine not well, Tesla is pretty good at wound spamming. I'll have to admit I don't often see tesla taken. Necrons as a whole have excellent infantry clearing (Wraiths, Basic warriors are tough, Destroyers, Blades, flayed ones even do the job) but tend to lack anti-tank weapons in mass. They rely on gauss weapon spamming to take down tanks, so that's what you tend to see on the base infantry.

It'd be pretty easy to run a test. Take about 500-600 points of Tesla and see how many wounds it inflicts on this squad and at what range. If you can kill it before it reaches you, it does fine. Necrons in general are pretty tough so I imagine survival isn't a big issue and it would clear the blob with only light casualties.

Yeah, the only thing with Tesla is scythes, barges, blades, and immortals


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 Slayer le boucher wrote:
I might sound rubbish but that whole discussion about the IG "deathstar" (lol)...NO ONE fething CARE.

ITs not the object of the Thread, you're all too much focused on this, Jancoran said he wins with this in his meta?, then okey he wins with this in his meta, is that going to change your lives?, nope, no it won't.

i know a guy who played that kind of guard blob, never lost against it, its annoying has feth, but i was not impressed by it, but thats in my Meta, not any of the others, so no one fething cares.

So please stop making this the greatest issue of the world, causs it isn't.

Thank you dear sir

 Gamgee wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
The Tau will get the Tau treatment and sooner than you think given our new found popularity.

Warzone: Monte'ka I'm betting we'll see unique models/suits/options for FSE in the book.

With Farssight stuff in it as well as the inevitable defeat of one of the largest crusades the Imperium of Man has ever launched at anything let alone the "weak" Tau Empire.

It will be defeated because it was foretold by a Grey Knight/Farsight/Prophecy.

Edit
It remains to be seen who will win the Tau/Admech FW book though.

*that an Alpha Legionnaire predicted, since he claimed to have no Chapter and was 'Legion'. Just because he wore Grey Armour, doesn't mean he was a Grey Knight. And it's not the biggest Crusade ever, you have the Sabbat Worlds, Macharius and the after math, the Great Crusade, the Scouring...

And all the Farsight update will give (if there is one, which is an assumption that has no basis seeing that the Eldar Iyanden book was never updated) is troop choice Crisis suits and his body guard characters, just like last time. Your assuming they'll release new Tau models after this literal downpour of models? There's what, 9 new kits? (Crisis Suits, Crisis Commander, Stormsurge, Ghostkeel, Fire Warriors, Ethereal, each Fortification section...) I think you are dreaming, kid.

The Crusade has to lose because the Tau have to exist, but that doesn't mean the Tau are going to get off easy. Probably will lose everything they've gained under Shadowsun and Aun'va, to show the Tau the soul crushing futility of their efforts in the Galaxy.

And, because, you know, to make it despite the fact that Farsight won the day, it's Grim Dark Pyrrhic victory where nobody wins.

Nah they'll win and push back once again and again. Until the Imperium is nothing. Learning of the futility of trying to stop the Tau from our ascendancy.

It was mad clear at the end of kayoun that the Imperials are going to win the Damocles war. Sur they won't exterminate the Tau, but the book clearly foreshadows the recapture of agrellan and other worlds

No they won't.
Book 2 will have the enclaves getting involved,turninh the fight around under the leadership of the most manly tau in history.,the space samurai Farsight.

And from there on out, it's noblebright all the way, for the grater goodz!

 Selym wrote:
The lascannons are an upgrade ro a unit. Tactical marines with lascannon upgrades have to remain in unit coherency, and so to HWT upgrades.
Additionally, firing them precludes charging, too.

I'm sorry but you need to know the rules. And the rules state extremely clearly that as long as the Lascannons themselves do not move, they can fire normally. How do people not know this? Obviouly I cannot charge if I fire them. Obviously.


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Akiasura wrote:


He'd probably have been better off with 220 points in launchers then taking that much melta..

Yeah you're reaching so far and s wide to try and save your argument that I just cant entertain it any more. Sorry but this and a dozen other things you've said that are literally just wrong or are assuming information this guy wouldnt have coming to the table that... yeah. thanks for participating so actively but there's literally no point in continuing if this is the kind of advice I can look forward to.

So if you ever even pick up an IG army and play it, you can try it or not. I dont even CARE much anymore. lol.

I really don't see the tau hype. They have huge weaknesses still. Drop pod heavy spam, grey Knights shunting, purifiers wreck tau like a knife wrecks butter.. And there is no hard tau counter to these. Not even interceptor or sky fire... Those are subpar

Martel732 wrote:
BA are arguably the worst list in the game, and even worse than that with 11 pods. Please link the actual report so I can see exactly what this person did.

There is no report. And you're losing focus on the point of the discussion anyways. This UNIT is an example of how IG compete. The rest of the army is a whole other issue but this unit can be dropped into my Militarum Tempestus army or my IG army and used. It's excellent for both.




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Kharne the Befriender wrote:
How well would these lists put up with Tesla spam?

Well since AP doesnt matter, i suppose it matches up pretty good. I haven't played it specifically against Tesla spam although obviously Tesla has been used in some volume. I dunno, fine i would think.


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Yoyoyo wrote:
From what I've read the main issue in ITC is mobility of the blob vis-a-vis Maelstrom VP points.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/10/08/dispatches-from-the-front-know-no-mercy-tournament-report/

Take away the penalties for their mobility and IG can do well.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/10/30/mr-moretanks-harvester-of-souls-gt-report/

Well this blob has seven pieces so ideally you can death blossom at the end. the unit isn't just one unit. Its seven. thats doesnt solve all mobility issues but it does solve some, namely that you CAN use it to ultimately take 2 or more objectives at the end. that will just largely depend on where the objectives are placed, terrrain etc... which can vary enormously so...


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 Slayer le boucher wrote:
I might sound rubbish but that whole discussion about the IG "deathstar" (lol)...NO ONE fething CARE.

ITs not the object of the Thread, you're all too much focused on this, Jancoran said he wins with this in his meta?, then okey he wins with this in his meta, is that going to change your lives?, nope, no it won't.

i know a guy who played that kind of guard blob, never lost against it, its annoying has feth, but i was not impressed by it, but thats in my Meta, not any of the others, so no one fething cares.

So please stop making this the greatest issue of the world, causs it isn't.

I did ironically attempt to disengage on it quite a while ago and was attacked by several people for not going further into it and "defending or explaining it". So i did. Though honestly my first response was "go look in the codex. Its not a complicated unit."

that wasn't enough, apparently...

And the thing is, this unit isnt acting in a vacuum, so the rest of the list is doing stuff. This just happens to be kind of the biggest piece of the puzzle.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Selym wrote:
The lascannons are an upgrade ro a unit. Tactical marines with lascannon upgrades have to remain in unit coherency, and so to HWT upgrades.
Additionally, firing them precludes charging, too.

I'm sorry but you need to know the rules. And the rules state extremely clearly that as long as the Lascannons themselves do not move, they can fire normally. How do people not know this? Obviouly I cannot charge if I fire them. Obviously.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Akiasura wrote:


He'd probably have been better off with 220 points in launchers then taking that much melta..

Yeah you're reaching so far and s wide to try and save your argument that I just cant entertain it any more. Sorry but this and a dozen other things you've said that are literally just wrong or are assuming information this guy wouldnt have coming to the table that... yeah. thanks for participating so actively but there's literally no point in continuing if this is the kind of advice I can look forward to.

So if you ever even pick up an IG army and play it, you can try it or not. I dont even CARE much anymore. lol.

That's fine, considering the constant strawmanning and casual nature of your meta I really doubt we'll ever agree on anything. We just move in two very different worlds, no harm in it.
I would strongly urge you to tell your friend to try 5 drop pods max, pg instead of melta, and take the launcher. It'll improve his game against most lists dramatically


That being said, what exactly is the Tau treatment? I've been using it to mean the other dexes being brought up to Tau levels of power, but looking over the changes they received the raw dex hasn't changed that much. It's really the formations and such that allow them to compete with the big boys, which seems okay considering where they were at in the power rankings. But I don't want Chaos or Guard to be tied to formations so closely, given their current power levels. It'll just mean they'll be regulated to a mono build that abuses the formation, and that is the last thing I think we want.
I'd rather honestly see a re-work of the entire dex, rather than a supplement tossed our way to patch us up that is just OP formations.

 Jancoran wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

If he's won on generalship at a large enough event, then I'd agree there's nothing to prove. If not, well, maybe I'll continue to be a touch skeptical.

Nice. Which large tournament allowed you to have your opinions? Just curious.

Ive been to two Seattle GT's, and they talked me into finally going to TSHFT. I've only ever lost one game at each of those events. My paint wont ever put me in the higher echelons of those anyways. My paint is so poor its like crayons (not literally, but...). Although after my Cornea Transplants 1+ years ago, it has significantly improved. =)

So I haven't won a "big tournament" that allows me to post on Dakkadakka like you and the other Adepticon champs here (got a stack of em, but no majors). But I have done so well, that I thought I'd venture some opinions anyways.

Now anyone who HASN'T won is on notice that you, JohnHwangDD, will be skeptical of their opinions. Even if they have won a lot. Sorry fella's.

You know though... Here's a thought from left field to join all my other ones. What if we assumed just to be civil that people who win a lot might have...earned it? Might have something to share? Might even be on this board without winning a single major! Whuuuuuut? But yes! That would be crazy, yet... consider the possibilities...

GenCon SoCal, back in the day.

I am more skeptical about claims of competitiveness if they've not won anything, particularly when those particular claims are strongly counter to the broad experience and my personal experience. I see nothing wrong with that point, and I doubt anyone would find fault with that. We are talking about competitiveness, so it makes perfect sense to me that someone with actual wins would be a better speaker on the topic.

When that someone makes crazy claims about how competitive the IG are, highlighting an absolutely terrible unit (IG blob) in the current mobility-focused meta, no, I'm OK to let them share. Just like I allow toddlers ramble on about their favorite dinosaurs. That doesn't make them paleontologists, though.

 Jancoran wrote:
There is no report. And you're losing focus on the point of the discussion anyways. This UNIT is an example of how IG compete. The rest of the army is a whole other issue but this unit can be dropped into my Militarum Tempestus army or my IG army and used. It's excellent for both.

How IG competes in your meta, where it seems nobody bothers to bring proper anti-infantry weapons to the table.

" This UNIT is an example of how IG compete"

Beating BA isn't competing. It's clubbing baby seals.

Jancorans gibberish

Okay Jancoran, you seem to be missing the major point being made here:

Your supadupa killy unit is gak

It is massively expensive, relies heavily upon you getting the required three powers, which is a pretty damn risky thing in itself, requires you to conga line your unit in order to keep the Lascannons firing - something which can easily be beaten by using barrages, droppods or flanking units to ensure that the conga is the closest models to the shooter. It needs you to get into combat, forcing you to pray that the enemy does not just blitz all 38 meatshields away within two turns (it will happen). Ah, but one does not even need to kill all 38 meatshields for you have yourself stated that they are forming a conga so as to keep your lascannons in formation.
Thats what? 1 per 2" of space covered by the main unit. So 3 per movement phase plus 2 per running phase.
By turn two I have wiped your meatshields, half your sergeants and one or two characters.
By turn three the unit has ceased to exist.

You also forget that I can deny your psychic powers, preventing you from getting them.
You also forget that whilst I have tasked my two weakest tanks to deal with your unit (something that they will do exceptionally well) I may also task some other units if there is nothing close enough or I feel that you are getting a little too lucky.
I could also just drop in with that anti psychic assassin (pretty standard for my army) and pretty much halt your psychic powers completely.

You have proven nothing. IG are weak, we are in a gak position right now with only CSM being anywhere near as bad as us.
Please understand that your meta is an exceptionally weak and casual one which seems to lack even the most common of modern lists. Hell, you think that 20 scatbikes is list tailoring. Around most parts 40+ scatbikes are standard.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Jancorans gibberish

Okay Jancoran, you seem to be missing the major point being made here:

Your supadupa killy unit is gak

It is massively expensive, relies heavily upon you getting the required three powers, which is a pretty damn risky thing in itself, requires you to conga line your unit in order to keep the Lascannons firing - something which can easily be beaten by using barrages, droppods or flanking units to ensure that the conga is the closest models to the shooter. It needs you to get into combat, forcing you to pray that the enemy does not just blitz all 38 meatshields away within two turns (it will happen). Ah, but one does not even need to kill all 38 meatshields for you have yourself stated that they are forming a conga so as to keep your lascannons in formation.
Thats what? 1 per 2" of space covered by the main unit. So 3 per movement phase plus 2 per running phase.
By turn two I have wiped your meatshields, half your sergeants and one or two characters.
By turn three the unit has ceased to exist.

You also forget that I can deny your psychic powers, preventing you from getting them.
You also forget that whilst I have tasked my two weakest tanks to deal with your unit (something that they will do exceptionally well) I may also task some other units if there is nothing close enough or I feel that you are getting a little too lucky.
I could also just drop in with that anti psychic assassin (pretty standard for my army) and pretty much halt your psychic powers completely.

And yet still better than any unit from C:BA.

Martel732 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Jancorans gibberish

Okay Jancoran, you seem to be missing the major point being made here:

Your supadupa killy unit is gak

It is massively expensive, relies heavily upon you getting the required three powers, which is a pretty damn risky thing in itself, requires you to conga line your unit in order to keep the Lascannons firing - something which can easily be beaten by using barrages, droppods or flanking units to ensure that the conga is the closest models to the shooter. It needs you to get into combat, forcing you to pray that the enemy does not just blitz all 38 meatshields away within two turns (it will happen). Ah, but one does not even need to kill all 38 meatshields for you have yourself stated that they are forming a conga so as to keep your lascannons in formation.
Thats what? 1 per 2" of space covered by the main unit. So 3 per movement phase plus 2 per running phase.
By turn two I have wiped your meatshields, half your sergeants and one or two characters.
By turn three the unit has ceased to exist.

You also forget that I can deny your psychic powers, preventing you from getting them.
You also forget that whilst I have tasked my two weakest tanks to deal with your unit (something that they will do exceptionally well) I may also task some other units if there is nothing close enough or I feel that you are getting a little too lucky.
I could also just drop in with that anti psychic assassin (pretty standard for my army) and pretty much halt your psychic powers completely.

And yet still better than any unit from C:BA.

I would argue that point. It takes an inordinate amount of luck for me to dent MEQ's.

You would be wrong. The laws of large numbers of dice dictate that marines die at a 33% to any incoming wound. Perhaps you have a mental block when it comes to meqs, because BA have no good deathstars, no good firepower units, nothing that makes them a good 7th ed list. Nothing. Not a thing. Not even this blob strategy you are hating on so much. The BA aren't even good enough to even have a debate over.

If you factor in FW, BA are certainly the worst list, because the bump CSM gets is much higher than the bump BA get.

Meqs die like little bitches in 7th. Even to IG when played properly. Meqs aren't making any marine list good anymore. It's the other stuff. The stuff that BA don't get.

Martel732 wrote:
You would be wrong. The laws of large numbers of dice dictate that marines die at a 33% to any incoming wound. Perhaps you have a mental block when it comes to meqs, because BA have no good deathstars, no good firepower units, nothing that makes them a good 7th ed list. Nothing. Not a thing. Not even this blob strategy you are hating on so much. The BA aren't even good enough to even have a debate over.

If you factor in FW, BA are certainly the worst list, because the bump CSM gets is much higher than the bump BA get.

Meqs die like little bitches in 7th. Even to IG when played properly. Meqs aren't making any marine list good anymore. It's the other stuff. The stuff that BA don't get.

Well, to tell the truth I have yet to face BA so I cant say too much, but given what I have seen from the resident player I dont think they are quite as badly off as you make out Martel. That said I lack the experience to comment.

Also: You forget that those shots have to first hit AND wound :/

 master of ordinance wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
You would be wrong. The laws of large numbers of dice dictate that marines die at a 33% to any incoming wound. Perhaps you have a mental block when it comes to meqs, because BA have no good deathstars, no good firepower units, nothing that makes them a good 7th ed list. Nothing. Not a thing. Not even this blob strategy you are hating on so much. The BA aren't even good enough to even have a debate over.

If you factor in FW, BA are certainly the worst list, because the bump CSM gets is much higher than the bump BA get.

Meqs die like little bitches in 7th. Even to IG when played properly. Meqs aren't making any marine list good anymore. It's the other stuff. The stuff that BA don't get.

Well, to tell the truth I have yet to face BA so I cant say too much, but given what I have seen from the resident player I dont think they are quite as badly off as you make out Martel. That said I lack the experience to comment.

Also: You forget that those shots have to first hit AND wound :/

So what magic does your resident player bring to the table?

Given that I have played against IG many, many times with BA, maybe you should listen to me about this. IG do the same thing to BA as the Tau do, just with some mechanical differences. But the core concept is all the same.

I honestly have no idea Martel. All I see see is a big red wall of NOPE.

 master of ordinance wrote:
I honestly have no idea Martel. All I see see is a big red wall of NOPE.

All the players who slap me around like a stooge know the BA codex very well and know the BA units very well. Understanding a foe is key to defeating them. Once you understand BA, you realize how god awful they are.