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I play tau but my best friend is an ork player. I just got the Battleforce and my friend is using the orks from Assault on BlackReach which is where i got my space marines. No matter what i do i cant beat him. I really dont no but his army is:

Zogwort (Coverted BlackReach Warboss)

5 Nobz These might have extra armour

20 Boyz (2 big shootas, rest are sluggas and these axes i think are called Choppas) Boys also have this extra armour that gives em like 4+ armour save

Scorcha

my army is the Battleforce

Please any tactics to beat him So far hes won like 7 times and ive won 0 times

the first 5 battles i used my space marines

I know its pitiful


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Converted*

Well,

Shoot at his Boyz. 20 Boyz isn't too dangerous with 12 or so Firewarriors, they still don't get saves as Pulse-Rifles are AP 4, IIRC.

Same applies to Nobz.

As for Zogwort, just shoot him. He won't last long.

Play on a 4'x4' board. Have about 25% of the board covered by terrain. Play with the actual Force Organization Chart (2 Troops, 1 HQ minimum, up to 4 additional Troops, 1 additional HQ, and 3 Heavy Support, Fast Attack and Elites). Also play with your army's points balanced. His army is about 540 points, while yours is only about 450, and at such a low level that difference is huge*. A small balanced game is 750 points.

Now, as for actual strategies, you need to keep your units away from him. Use your Stealth Suits to move 18" away from his Boyz, fire, then use Jet Pack move to move 6" away in the Assault Phase. This is called JSJ (Jump, Shoot, Jump). Also have your Kroot and Fire Warriors shoot at them at maximum range. Have your Crisis Suit equiped with some sort of long ranged anti-tank, like a Missile Pod or even a Plasma Rifle to kill the Skorcha before it can get into action. Once the Orks have been widdled down, it is time for the Mont'Ka. Have your Devilfish move your Fire Warriors up and Rapid Fire into the remaining Boyz or Nobs.


*I did the math in my head without consulting the codex and generalizing how much you've spent on upgrades. The actual numbers may very by about 30 points.

EDIT: Cryonicleech is incorrect. Pusle Rifles and Carbines are only S5 AP5.

Well actually its pretty hard because first we got a small table Bad for me, good for him. He has 1/6 Chance to get a Free WAAGH which is BAD plus he can turn my independant characters to a squig and wats even WORSE?!?!?!?! The Fact that his Zogwort is in the Mob of 20 Boyz. So hes untouchable and like a said before the table is small so he can Furious Charge, Waagh all that assaulting at around Turn 2 or 3 (most likely 2). And Pulse Rifles are AP 5 so yea. To Kill Zoggy and his Boyz quicker i was thinking of replacing my Kroot and Shaper for a nice squad of firewarriors instead. I also have a Piranha in this army.

HQ:
XV8 Crisis Battlesuit 35 Points
-Missile Pods (Twin-linked) 18 Points
-Shield Drone x2
83 Points

Elites :
XV25 Stealth Suits x3 90 Points
-Burst Cannons (Standard Weaponry)
-Stealth Suits (Standard Weaponry)
90 Points

Troops :
Fire Warrior Caste x12 w/ DevilFish 200 Points
-Pulse Rifles (Standard Weaponry)
-Burst Cannons (Devil Fish, Standard Weaponry)
-Smart Missile Systems (Devil Fish, Secondary Weaponry) 20 Points
-Flechette Discharger (Devil Fish) 10 Points
230 Points

Kroot Carnivore Squad x12 w/ Shaper 105 Points
-Kroot Rifles (Standard Weaponry)
105 Points

Fast Attack :
Piranha 60 Points
-Burst Cannon (Standard Weaponry)
-Flechette Discharger 10 Points
70 Points

Gun Drone Squadron x2 24 Points
-Pulse Carbines (Standard Weaponry)
24 Points

Total Points : 602

My Army

Pulse rifle are only AP5.

By the looks of it, he's got an illegal army.

He's either got 1 troop and one HQ, or he's got 1 HQ and two units of 'ard boyz when you can only have 1.

If you have a Piranha in your army, your points are probably even. Try this tactic: equip it with Fletche Discharges, then Tank Shock his Nobs around. They don't have a very high Ld score, and are likely to flee after two or so passes. Once you've gotten them to flee, stay 6" near them and they won't be able to regroup and you'll make them flee off the board. If you mess up and they Assault you, then the Nobz get blasted with fletche for their trouble.

Don't take a Shaper on the Kroot. He doesn't provide any cost effective benefit.

All you have to do is take care of the other units expediantly, then focus all your fire on the mob of Boyz. They will go down.

On the topic of board sizes, small boards will murder new Tau players. You really need to get a table that's 4x4 or you're unlikely to win, even with the best of tactics. The army relies heavily on mobility and without the space to maneuver orks are going to maul you.

Ill tell him that but other than that any tactics? the Flechettes will probably do some good against the Boyz. I HATE NOBZ ON THE CHARGE! O yeah and Btw its 600 points and theres also a tyranid player which is probably prancing thanks to the new Codex and an Eldar player

Piranha are not tanks, and therefore can not tank shock.

if you can have your Crisis suit 'count as' a Shas'el or Shas'o, try modding an Air Fragmentation Projector, and setting up the AFP, TL Missle Pod, Hard Wired Multi-Tracker, HW Drone Controller, 2x shield drones. Shave points where needed, drop the stealth suits if you need the extra points. This can put a huge hurting on the Orks.

You can upgrade the piranha to a fusion blaster and give it a targeting array. Always move over 6" and shoot at the Nobs, at str 8 it will insta-kill a nob with each wound, and negates their armor save.

There are two basic strategies you can follow for your fire warriors. Either load them into the Devilfish when the Orks get to within18" of you and scoot away (depending on table size, that may be difficult)

or split them into two 6 man fire warrior squads and place them apart from each other (preferably in cover) so that all your FW aren't wiped out in one assault. Position your kroot further back, shoot when the orks are in range, but primarily you want them to be able to counter assault the orks if they get to your FW. in this set up you use the empty devilfish to do it's own shooting, and tank shock the Orks once they drop below 9 models or so.

With the exception of the Piranha, all your units should be firing at one target. If you can get one squad or the other to chase your Piranha or devilfish around, so much the better.

Good luck, and happy hunting.

Kroot Loops wrote:Piranha are not tanks, and therefore can not tank shock.

Ah shoot, I forgot about that issue. Serves me right for running an army with only Tank and Walker vehicles. Still, Tank Shocking those Nobs with your Devilfish could be effective.

Thanks guys keep em coming and Btw Zogwort, 20 boyz, nobz and a scorcha seem pretty insignificant now

Nick wrote:Thanks guys keep em coming and Btw Zogwort, 20 boyz, nobz and a scorcha seem pretty insignificant now

Wait 'till he figures out he likes painting Boyz and starts a horde. Wooh, 150 Boyz in a 1500 point game, plus extras.

Speaking of the future, maybe you have an idea what you guys will be branching into. Tactics at this points level are either completely complex, or simply focusing fire depending on the players (and you guys fall into the latter). It makes for a bland thread.

I don't suppose you have a hammerhead?

No i do not have a hammerhead and I no exactly what armies he is making in the future. His 1k Army will have 90 Boyz. 1.5k will have 135 Boyz and in the 2k one he will have 180 Boyz. Squads of 30 and a rare 15. Starting from the 1k Army he will have a Wierd Boy and each Boy squad will have a nob and everyone gets Ard Armour D:

only one squad of boys can be 'ard boyz

the hammerhead's submunition blast is one of your best, if not simply the best, weapons you'll have against a foot slogging Ork list.

Ok then that'll be alot easier on my part. I probably will get a Hammerhead and take away the kroot and with the left over 20 points i could get disruption pods on my Vehicles just in case or something

Keep your Crisis Suit behind cover or your front ranks, GW FAQ states that you can take a cover save against any non-flamer template psychic attack. The chance of breaking line of sight and his concentration or some such thing.

you save against wounds. Zogwort's curse causes no wounds, therefore there are no saves, cover or otherwise. Unless the commander is out of LOS (which is hard to do with true LOS on most boards) then you just have to beat him on the D6, or use your JSJ to stay out of his range (18" IIRC)

Again I state that any Psychic attack that targets an individaul allows a cover save, it is in the FAQ s, which trump rulebook.

i was thinking kinda of using my Devilfish and my Piranha as a wall and if they try to assault them my flechettes would go off and kill a few

doubled wrote:Again I state that any Psychic attack that targets an individaul allows a cover save, it is in the FAQ s, which trump rulebook.

Which FAQ? I didn't see it in the Ork FAQ. I think you are pulling rules out of the air, because powers like Gift of Chaos cause no wounds and provide clarficating text that no saves of any kind may be taken against it.

Clarificating?

doubled wrote:Again I state that any Psychic attack that targets an individaul allows a cover save, it is in the FAQ s, which trump rulebook.

I suggest you read the FAQ again, it says psychic shooting powers which cause wounds, and goes on to specifically say that cover does not affect the 'weirder' effects of psychic powers.

Nurglitch wrote:Clarificating?

I had to make a new word in mockery of GW's rules writing. I meant to do that. Really!

I found that even the humble Devilfish can give a mob of Boyz a hard time if it keeps its distance from them. Their lousy armour saves provide no protection against the burst cannon and SMS. Also, the point made about splitting your FW into two squads of six could be surprisingly useful. If the Ork player is inexperienced, the two targets taking consistent numbers of his Orks might pressure him into making mistakes. And anyway, once (if ever, you're better off if they don't) his Orks get within 12" of your FW, the constant fire from them and your other units should have whittled his force down to the point where your two shots (Rapid fire weapons, within 12") per FW should be competent at the task of finishing him.

His opponent is bringing 'Ard Boyz with a 4+ armor save. They are rather durable.

And of course, as 'eavy armour was just stuck on the end, I didn't notice it and just skipped over.
Now I see why you're having trouble :/

Just FYI, Tau are at kind of at a disadvantage currently. Against a decently built Ork army, you're just not going to experience victory without a lot of luck. Orks have a good codex, Tau a kind of crappy one. Luckily my friend who plays Orks isn't very good and I can manage to eke out a draw or an occasional victory, but only on annihilation missions. He keeps his mobs nicely clumped for my hammerheads to drops blasts into and only uses a couple easy to kill vehicles.

Just realize that you're fighting an uphill battle.

Tau aren't really at a disadvantage, but Battleforce Tau are definitely at a disadvantage. You need to restructure your army greatly and use very different units than what you have now.

The kroot are good, but you should get some hounds. The Firewarriors are not good, but you have to have them. Crisis suits are good. Stealth suits are not.

try using the xv8 as a shas'o, use an AFP, cyclic ion blaster, vectored retro thrusters, a stimulant injector, h/w multitracker, target lock, and drone controller w/ the 2 shield drones.

the stealth suits need a leader w/ fusion blaster and markerlight, and give the 2 underlings targetin arrays, and give the leader something to compliment what ur sending them after.

break down the FW's as 1 6 man squad w/ a shas'ui w/ a markerlight.

count the other 6 as pathfinders, give 2 railrifles, and the others with the carbines, and give the leader a h/w drone controller w/ the gun drones.

just field the kroot as normal, but give the the a carbine: have JUST him shoot, and then you can still assault.

AND MAKE SURE THEY ARE ALL BONDED!!!

(i don't know how many points it'll cost, i apologize, but i don't have my codex....)

but give that a shot and see if you can hold your own. just remember that the commander is meant for CQC, so don't be afraid to have him jump, unload all over the orks faces, and then assault. you just don't want them to WAAAAAAGH!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(sorry) just firld the kroot as normal, but give the shaper a carbine

Battleforce Doesn't come with Airburstin Fragention, Projector or Cyclic Ion Blaster and you can't take vectored retro thrusters with Drones. You also don't get rail rifles but they're easy to convert. Your commander should be a Shas'o or Shas'el to be a HQ so that will help with survivabiltiy. Try to escalate the points of your games as Orks do better than Tau at lower points values. Remeber your mobility and if you don't like the squig turning buy indipendant characters bodyguards as then they lose the rule and aren't affected. Never engage Orks with Tau unless you outnumber them and you get the charge. Then a Boy is worse as he has 1 less Initiative but a better save (if he charges you you'll get crunched bigtime.