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Here in no certain order are the lessons I learned in my first test games. Granted, some of this may be in part to my limited experience. The reason I picked up Nidz in the first place was to have an army totally different then anything I played before, so there is a little adjustment period for me.


1. There are no "stand out" units in this book. It is extremely balanced. Everything has it's strengths and it's weaknesses.

2. The Deathleaper is still my favorite unit. He alone shut down Jaws when I played against the Space Wolves, and Warp time when I played against Chaos Space Marines.

3. The Tervigon is a "meh" choice. Sure you get a scoring MC that can generate new units, but the units it generates are usually small in number and you have a 40% chance to burn out the ability every time you use it. Not to mention that if the Tervigon dies (which isn't hard, see below) then you run the risk of killing all of your scoring units within 18". Top that off with Catalyst being a psychic power and can be shut down, and you have a boatload of points that may not contribute anything to the game.

4. Monstrous Creatures are fragile and expensive. Carnifexes fall before almost every other armies heavy assault units. In my test game against the Wolves, Logan and a small Terminator unit of 4 was able to take down one with full Carnifex in combat before it had a chance to swing. MCs also fall to the massive amount of fire from other armies. When you have 10 missile launchers from Long Fangs hitting your MCs, even with cover, it sheds wounds quickly.

5. Trygons are good, but tricky to use. One game I deployed it too aggressively and it lost 5 wounds before it had a chance to move. The other game I was too conservative with it and my opponent was able to avoid it hitting anything vital. Good deployment can make the creature a non-issue. I did played that you can bring a unit with it the turn you arrive, and that is what I am finding it's main strength to be.

6. Spore Pods are amazing. They are fragile and are easy kill points, but they provide critical cover, and can deliver a massive amount of additional shooting to your army.

7. Hive Guard are another "meh" choice. I could barely cause any damage to tanks with them over the course of three games. I think they are a unit that you either take in numbers (like 6 of them) or you don't take at all.

This is still me adapting, but I am enjoying the army and the challenge it is giving me.

Have you actually got the codex, or are you playing off the rumors. If you've actually got the book, can you confirm on the Trygon allowing infantry to arrive the same round as it through it's tunnel?

well, what shall i say, the Tervigons absolutely need regenerate. It's expensive but hey, with six wounds it WILL come in handy. I would also consider letting them outflank (I will have two hive tyrants with tactical instinct in my 1500 list.).

And yes, units can enter from the trygon's tunnel, but not in the turn it appeared.
You can deploy within 6'' of a "reasonably sized marker". quite a big hole if you ask me.

I'll be interested to see if these findings remain true as more people get access to the Codex, as almost everyone seems to be lauding the Tervigon and Hive Guard. Just out of curiosity, what list were you using, and what lists did you play against?

I have trouble picturing the Hive Guards as Meh. They've got 2 shots at s8, and they are very heavy platforms for that kind of firepower, presuming they are getting cover saves.

Seems like a unit of 3 firing at a rhino is 6 shots, 4 hits, 1-2 pens, 1 glance, 1 nothing? So figure every 2 rounds you ought to get a rhino down? Sounds good to me!

Like I said, I am not really experienced with this army so these findings could be just me. I have been playing Marines (of all flavors) for close to 7 years now, so I am adjusting to the change.

Have you actually got the codex, or are you playing off the rumors. If you've actually got the book, can you confirm on the Trygon allowing infantry to arrive the same round as it through it's tunnel?

Playing off very reliable rumors, and I was able to confirm the points costs, so the lists where accurate.

I asked about the Trygon arrival, and it seemed by how the German codex was worded, a unit can arrive on the same turn as the Trygon, so that is how I played. I also played that the Death Leaper's +1 and the Tyrant's +1 stacked, so I was reliably getting all of my reserves in on turn two.

well, what shall i say, the Tervigons absolutely need regenerate. It's expensive but hey, with six wounds it WILL come in handy. I would also consider letting them outflank (I will have two hive tyrants with tactical instinct in my 1500 list.).

My Problem wasn't in their taking damage from shooting, but from assault. I had a Deamon Prince in CC with it, and he was able to put it down in two rounds of combat. And once he goes down he takes a lot of Hormagaunts with him. So I highly recommend against the "2 units of gaunts, 2 Termagaunt" build. Better to have some Warriors. I am not ruling out fielding one in a given army list, just multiples are too much.

I'll be interested to see if these findings remain true as more people get access to the Codex, as almost everyone seems to be lauding the Tervigon and Hive Guard. Just out of curiosity, what list were you using, and what lists did you play against?

I don't have my exact lists, but I did try to go MC heavy with Hive Guard support.

I played Oblit heavy Chaos and Logan lead Space Wolves with two Rune Priests.

What I found was that when you are facing multiple Land Raider Space Wolves, you're kinda screwed with Hive Guard. Heavy Venom Cannons don't help either.

I have trouble picturing the Hive Guards as Meh. They've got 2 shots at s8, and they are very heavy platforms for that kind of firepower, presuming they are getting cover saves.

Their problem wasn't survivability. It was range and damage. We where playing that you still get cover saves from the shots, and str. 8 doesn't help against Land Raiders. Most of my opponents just ignored them.

So, tyranids can't kill reliably tanks via shooting outside of that S10 lance ap1 shot, I'm guessing?

Except when you are playing against Space Wolves.

At least against a Hood you can Deathleaper the Librarians leadership.

Mahu, I'm with you on Tervigons. They're offensively challenged. I think they're still viable and all, but that people talking of 5 or 6 Tervigons will just have too many points tied up in units with any offensive capability whatsoever. I had a Carnifex get jumped and wiped out without swinging by a Death Company. Which then proceeded to later jump a Tervigon. At least the Tervigon (barely) made it to the second turn of CC before dropping. I dunno...maybe there'll be Tervigon-heavy builds emerge that compensate for their weaknesses.

Regarding Hive Guard, I found 'em to be transport killers. And the rules for the gun (I believe) say you ignore intervening terrain. If they're in it, they still get a cover save.

I think HG and Zoeys have different targets. Although I like HG just a little more overall because of how relentless the gun is once it's in range. Zoeys are a little more inconsistent at what they do.



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@ Fuzzyorb -- what do you hope to accomplish by outflanking Tervigons? I'm not being a smart-a$$ here, I'm honestly curious.

Trying to arrive later to suffer less shooting/choppy from the enemy and getting on objectives that were actively placed near the shorter board edges.
Otherwise, meh.

Hopefully you've been playing games against folks other than Space Wolves, who really seem to be designed to take down monstrous creatures and are really pysker/anti-pysker heavy. Also with that, does your opponent usually take 10 missile launchers from Long Fangs or did he design the list after he saw you were playing MC heavy Tyranids?

Large units of Long Fangs with missile launchers = outflanking genestealers (which alot of folks seem to have dismissed on the forums here). I agree with you that 5 or 6 Tervigons is extreme and depends entirely on Termagants killing things/claiming objectives, but they can still be useful with their ability to generate scoring units.

A full death company charging a Carnifex should be able to kill it - thats why you need to get higher initiative MC in there with them to deal with them. Or hit them with ranged blasts, or tie them up with cheap broods, or alot of different options. Where MC really shine is being able to walk through bolter fire (which a majority of the Space Marine player's armies should be using unless they're min maxing heavy weapons squads and such). If they're rocking 10 missile launchers like you said, then yes it'll be hard to footslog across the board.

Good stuff Mahu.

I've been doing some quick unit reviews as part of my after action reports... it looks like you and I are agreeing to an extent.

I think you might have some things wrong, specifically the death leaper giving you any bonus to reserves on turn 2. His pheromone trail won't activate until turn 3 at the earliest, which really marginalizes it. The tervigon's termagant killing explosion only effect termagant units that have a modelw ithin 6" IIRC.

I'd agree with #1. Only, I feel its important to add that both the zoanthrope and the hive guard are completely game changing additions to the codex. They aren't OP, but are so vital to 5th edition competitiveness, that I'd say that one or the other are must-take's in any list type.

#2... Well, wait till you play against a non psychic army, then he is really a snoozer, and an expensive one at that. He is a requirement for any list running zoanthropes, so he'll see plenty of play time.

#3. Agreed. Not bad by any stretch, but reports of its uberness are greatly exaggerated.

#4. The T6 W6 3+ MCs have felt decently sturdy for me, as have tyrant with guard. Fexes, flyrants and harpies do feel a bit fragile in my hands.

#5. The version i haven't used yet. thanks for the tips, I'm looking forward to using him and that was good info. Gotta use that fleet, and deploy a bit back from special weapons, it seems.

#6. If only he climbing tentacles weren't ap-, it would be real transport killer. Even then, for 40 points, its got a bunch of strength 6 attacks, and it provides temporary cover (not for long if players are smart.) But most importantly, it makes unusable units usable. How vital is that?

#7. I know what you mean by 'meh'. you don't mean bad, but I have to really disagree here. My first game out with them, i played against a razorback spam list, and without them I would have been picked apart. I didn't even realize that they don't allow screened cover. Also, think about it this way. If you play against another tyranid army and you have hive guard and they have zoans/warriors, who do you think wins the shooting war? What is cool is the the hive guard synergize extraordinarily well with a ground pounder list, but can't really get a mobile screen or keep you with a dropping list, thats where zoanthropes excel... so you have these two units, which are different but the same, that work in differrent list types. I think that is awesome, but some people just might not like one or the other of them.

your over all message is ringing true. I've already spent hours pondering the dex, and I've batrepped two full 1750 games, trying out every sinle unit I'm interested in. And what I've found is that there isn't a no-brainer, just out of the codex and smack you in the face, internet list. Full ground and pound has huge weaknesses, and full aggro drop pod has major weaknesses as well. Everyone is going to have to find their blend between the two.

What do you guys think about Dakkafexes in pods? I'm not sure it's as dead of an option as some think.

I gotta say dropping in a Screamer-Killer, firing an inaccurate bioplasma shot, then getting charged by a Death Company (really, the S-K could almost as easily been shot to pieces too) didn't leave me in love with it.

If you're going to pod in and have a turn in which you're not doing anything else, a shedload of Devourer attacks looks pretty decent to me. If you pop a transport, you can maybe throw the pod's shooting on the occupants. And maybe that's where a strangler on the pod makes some sense.

And hey, the fex still has 4 attacks. It's not much without the rerolls, but it's going to die to heavy hitters in CC anyway.

Edit: Well, never mind re: transports. I just checked the weapon summary and saw the Devourer with brainworms/whatever is AP -. For some reason I was thinking the upgraded ammo made it AP6. So it's actually at a disadvantage to the bioelectric field of a Trygon Alpha. Hmpf.

In advance I am sorry for the long reply

Mahu, I'm with you on Tervigons. They're offensively challenged. I think they're still viable and all, but that people talking of 5 or 6 Tervigons will just have too many points tied up in units with any offensive capability whatsoever. I had a Carnifex get jumped and wiped out without swinging by a Death Company. Which then proceeded to later jump a Tervigon. At least the Tervigon (barely) made it to the second turn of CC before dropping. I dunno...maybe there'll be Tervigon-heavy builds emerge that compensate for their weaknesses.

They do have a nice blast template, but they are indeed fragile against any competent assault unit.

I am not saying they are bad, I think that it's a mistake to rely on them as your only scoring unit. I like the combination of one with Warriors as a solid scoring base.

Regarding Hive Guard, I found 'em to be transport killers. And the rules for the gun (I believe) say you ignore intervening terrain. If they're in it, they still get a cover save.

I think HG and Zoeys have different targets. Although I like HG just a little more overall because of how relentless the gun is once it's in range. Zoeys are a little more inconsistent at what they do.

I agree with Shep, which one you take depends on the list. I will try them again, but I am not rushing to their bandwagon.

I play against a lot of heavy transport armies, so it's hard to justify them. At least in my local meta.

Hopefully you've been playing games against folks other than Space Wolves, who really seem to be designed to take down monstrous creatures and are really pysker/anti-pysker heavy. Also with that, does your opponent usually take 10 missile launchers from Long Fangs or did he design the list after he saw you were playing MC heavy Tyranids?

No that is his normal list. He has won the last 4 local tournaments in a row with it. He is a great player and excels at the clutch rolling. Long Fangs are so cheap with such a high damage output, there is almost no reason not to field them.

I have to be able to deal with competitive Space Wolves if I want to compete in my local meta. When you have two Land Raiders full of death that can play the conservative game if needed, filled with good assault units, and can easily shut down your best anti-tank at range. It's a tough nut to crack for Tyranids.

Large units of Long Fangs with missile launchers = outflanking genestealers (which alot of folks seem to have dismissed on the forums here). I agree with you that 5 or 6 Tervigons is extreme and depends entirely on Termagants killing things/claiming objectives, but they can still be useful with their ability to generate scoring units.

We play with lots of terrain to, so that is not an automatic fix. I am thinking more podding Warriors deploying in cover. A big enough unit with an Alpha Warrior in it can survive a round of shooting and assault them off the table.

A full death company charging a Carnifex should be able to kill it - thats why you need to get higher initiative MC in there with them to deal with them. Or hit them with ranged blasts, or tie them up with cheap broods, or alot of different options. Where MC really shine is being able to walk through bolter fire (which a majority of the Space Marine player's armies should be using unless they're min maxing heavy weapons squads and such). If they're rocking 10 missile launchers like you said, then yes it'll be hard to footslog across the board.

There is a laundry list of units that can kill a Carnifex in CC. Bio Plasma is awesome though, especially in a pod. One thing I found successful was to put the Zoenthropes in front of the Carnifexes. Zoenthropes don't care about cover and can draw fire enough to keep the Carnifex alive. I think running the Carnifex and setting up a charge on tanks are the Carnifexes best use right now.

your over all message is ringing true. I've already spent hours pondering the dex, and I've batrepped two full 1750 games, trying out every sinle unit I'm interested in. And what I've found is that there isn't a no-brainer, just out of the codex and smack you in the face, internet list. Full ground and pound has huge weaknesses, and full aggro drop pod has major weaknesses as well. Everyone is going to have to find their blend between the two.

I agree who heartedly with your post Shep. If anything, this codex is proving to be pretty balanced in choices, I expect to see every unit in the book on the table. I really want to experiment with elite genestealers, as its a rare gift to be able to instantly assault when they arrive.

As one who was always more interested Warriors then was healthy with the last codex, how do they fair in the new codex?

Mahu wrote:
My Problem wasn't in their taking damage from shooting, but from assault. I had a Deamon Prince in CC with it, and he was able to put it down in two rounds of combat. And once he goes down he takes a lot of Hormagaunts with him.

This could have been one of the problems. The Tervigon only hurts Termagant units when it dies.

I'm not sure Razorbacks are as doomed against the Hive Guard as it might seem. The lascannon still packs 48" in range against the impaler cannon's 24" and it's a huge difference. The Hive Guard sure are nice but I don't think they completely counter Chimeras and Razorbacks despite being superior to them point by point. They have to move a lot from their deployment zone to be able to shoot anything and that means they can't utilise shooting through los blocking terrain as well as they'd like.

But could someone explain to me what a Tyranid army with a four Tervigons and about six Hive Guard and three Zoanthropes is going to do with Thunderwolf Cavalry or Nob Bikers or Seers on Bikes? All I'm currently seeing is some anti-transport/tank gun platforms and a few monstrous creatures that can't hack it in a fight at all. Whatever few remaining points the Nids have they would need to invest in a seriously incredible assault unit or two, but it doesn't seem like the Tyranids have one. Atleast not one that isn't simply shot off the board before it does anything.

My early impression is that it will be very tough to shoot the Nids off the board, but that a 75% shooty army with 25% points invested in a destroyer-of-worlds assault unit will have little to fear.

Well the army you quoted is very poorly designed, so likely you will have no trouble beating it. Perhaps wait until you see what Nid armies actually do bring to the table before dismissing the codex.

Or, even try making a list that would actually be effective to conduct your thought-experiment.

Dracos wrote:Well the army you quoted is very poorly designed, so likely you will have no trouble beating it. Perhaps wait until you see what Nid armies actually do bring to the table before dismissing the codex.

Or, even try making a list that would actually be effective to conduct your thought-experiment.

How about you try making a list that would actually be effective? I don't play Tyranids, I play Space Marines/SW/whatever, and since the book isn't available yet I'm basing my presumptions on what I read on Dakka. Currently the hyped up units are Tervigons and people are going as far as saying they're maxing out on them, and of course the Hive Guard. Some are saying there's no reason not to go the full 9 for a bargain 450 points, and some are saying it's good to mix in some Zoans. Now, I was simply putting two and two together what that army might possibly look like at the 1.5K or 1.75K limits and how it in my opinion has some glaring holes. Since you seem to have a very confident idea about Tyranids and how to win at the highest level with them how about sharing the secret knowledge with the rest of us instead of just doing your best at derailing the thread and making yourself look like a troll.

Let me try this another way. What is the point in making a list with an obviously huge flaw, then asking others to prove the huge flaw isn't so huge?

It would be more helpful to have some people who play Nids (read: not me) make lists and then try to determine weaknesses of those lists. You are trying to start at the end of an analysis, and work your way back to making the proof. This serves no purpose to anyone.

As one who was always more interested Warriors then was healthy with the last codex, how do they fair in the new codex?

I love them, they are a stand out unit, at least to my playstyle.

Warriors are a reliable troop unit and IMHO the best objective holder we get outside of the Tervigon. You just have to be careful with them because they are a little fragile to heavy fire.

I like the combination of Alpha Warrior w/ Boneswords, Deathspitter and a unit of at least 4 with Deathspitters in a Pod. You drop that thing into decent cover near an objective and sit there and fire all day long. Combine that with the Death Leaper showing up in that same cover and you almost guarantee that they will not be assaulted out of cover.

This could have been one of the problems. The Tervigon only hurts Termagant units when it dies.

Right, I did the "2 units of 10 Termagaunts and 2 Tervigons" as my troop choice thing. It's not wise.

I'm not sure Razorbacks are as doomed against the Hive Guard as it might seem. The lascannon still packs 48" in range against the impaler cannon's 24" and it's a huge difference. The Hive Guard sure are nice but I don't think they completely counter Chimeras and Razorbacks despite being superior to them point by point. They have to move a lot from their deployment zone to be able to shoot anything and that means they can't utilise shooting through los blocking terrain as well as they'd like.

I see potential there, as the Tyranid lists that will take them throw a lot of other threats your way. (I assume Hive Guard are in a ground pounding list). Yes, you have a massive amount of Lascannon fire, but what are you going to shoot at, the Hive Guard harassing your tanks, or the crazy CC monsters heading at you.

My problem with them is what happens when you come across armies where their guns are useless? The Space WOlf force I faced had two Land Raiders and a single Rhino. That may sound unconventional, but it is still a highly competitive list. What happens when you face off against ground pounding-deepstrike heavy chaos? (Another build that is highly competitive, but people ignore because of the mech craze). When I build competitive lists, I try and have at least an answer to the types of opponents I am sure to face as well as creating symmetry between my units, I tend to be less worried about redundency. I still need to try my hand versus IG, as I am not looking forward to what out flanking Hellhounds do.

But could someone explain to me what a Tyranid army with a four Tervigons and about six Hive Guard and three Zoanthropes is going to do with Thunderwolf Cavalry or Nob Bikers or Seers on Bikes? All I'm currently seeing is some anti-transport/tank gun platforms and a few monstrous creatures that can't hack it in a fight at all. Whatever few remaining points the Nids have they would need to invest in a seriously incredible assault unit or two, but it doesn't seem like the Tyranids have one. Atleast not one that isn't simply shot off the board before it does anything.

I think you hit the nail on the head as far as my experiences with them. Tyranids don't have the one crazy assault unit like other armies have. What we do have, I think is a a whole army of assault craziness that we have to capitalize on. Depending on Zoenthropes, Hive Guard, and Tervigons are a mistake in my opinion for exactly the reasons you describe. But mix in things like a few Genestealers, Alpha Warriors, Hive Tyrants, Revengers, Hormagaunts, Trygons, Carnifexes, etc. and you may not have one unit that can handle the other sides "super" units, but you throw enough cheaper things at it, and you can ware it down. Tyranids are where they need to be, in the war of attrition.

I think trying out the genestealers would be a good idea if your going to play Space Wolves (and especially the guy who runs alot of Long Fangs) - I'm not sold on the Broodlord yet, especially considering the Pyschic hood may nullify his Hypnotize power and all he'll have is rending attacks. If you have alot of terrain, it should favor you against alot of shooting from Space Wolves, as you'll benefit from the 4+ coversaves. Space Wolves are a hard nut to crack - especially since everyone runs the Jaws power to take down Monstrous Creatures. But - your Shadow of the Warp will make it more difficult for him to get them off, while Deathleaper can help with the anti-hood abilities.
2 Landraiders is pretty tough, which if your opponent is running them loaded up and having several Long Fangs units means he isn't screwing around when it comes to competitive lists.
I still think your best bet to go anti tank is to pop them with the Zoanthropes, which hopefully will have their shots go off around the Pyschic hood. Getting your monstrous creatures in there to pop the tanks is okay, but they will have to brave the missile fire to do so.
Could you post the list that your opponent has been using - like to take a crack at setting up a bug list which would work against it - have an idea in my head but would like to verify it.

Mattbranb:

Space Wolves don't use Psychic Hoods...

The biggest thing versus Space Wolves is shutting down the Rune Priests, though that is hard to accomplish. Like I said, at least against Hoods, you have the Deathleaper giving you the D3 advantage. Against Space Wolves they can put multiple Runic Weapons in range and have two chances to shut that down each power you cast. I haven't found Jaws to be that troublesome against Space Wolves as you can Deathleaper the Rune Priests leadership and put a Shadows of the Warp on them easily. It never got off once when I played against the Wolves. My main problem was dealing with Logan and his Terminator retinue.

My area is competitive (which I prefer), but tends to get stuck in a rut. There isn't a lot of creative builds here, so I can at least bank on expectations.

My bad - haven't played Space Wolves yet so I figured they had some kind of anti-psycher ability. Our area hasn't moved into the "allowing special characters" yet for Warhammer Fantasy or Warhammer 40k, so I'm not as worried about super-characters like Logan and such.
Note - if he's running Logan, some rune priests, multiple landraiders, terminator units, etc. etc. - how many scoring units does he have and what is the rest of the army made up of? Don't know the points off had, but wouldn't Logan, terminators and the land raiders run somewhere around 1,000 pts by themselves? I'm used to either 1750 or 1850 lists, would would mean he's putting alot of eggs in non-scoring units baskets.

Well...I think disallowing characters is a problem.

So there are no Deathwing nor Ravenwing players?
There are so few 'special characters' these days if you put on the lawyer pants.

Special characters are much different than named characters which have been given the 'ok' by GW to be used in any list and at any time.
____________

That aside.

Logan's terminators are scoring units .
And generally a list like that is more focused at either: wiping you out, or going for a draw.

Mahu wrote:The biggest thing versus Space Wolves is shutting down the Rune Priests, though that is hard to accomplish. Like I said, at least against Hoods, you have the Deathleaper giving you the D3 advantage. Against Space Wolves they can put multiple Runic Weapons in range and have two chances to shut that down each power you cast. I haven't found Jaws to be that troublesome against Space Wolves as you can Deathleaper the Rune Priests leadership and put a Shadows of the Warp on them easily. It never got off once when I played against the Wolves. My main problem was dealing with Logan and his Terminator retinue.

My area is competitive (which I prefer), but tends to get stuck in a rut. There isn't a lot of creative builds here, so I can at least bank on expectations.

Actually agenst wolves I'd worry more about thunderwolf Calvary as they will eat your nids alive big or small, I know I play both armies and have tested out nids a good dozen times now with the translated codex found on /tg/. If you want to play nids in this codex and your opponent isn't 100% mech then use Doom with a pod..... I preach this because most of the game I have used him and he has made things so much easier for me regardless of whether or not i use his large blast.

Deathleaper on the other hand effects one unit some of the time sure you can give someone -3 ld but your usually aiming at independent characters who have the option of breaking off their squad and if they're psyhic most of the time using power weapons or inside vehicles which means they might not need that power.... also deathleaper is the only lictor I've seen do anything and that's only cause he has an ability to do something before he starts. lictors come in on turn 2 maybe and then give their bonus but don't forget when they come in they can't move or do anything so you have to make those two shots count or else that ##perLic/###death points gets shot the hell up easily.

Tervigons are so wonderful for me... I marched a swarmlord through the middle of the battlefield giving him/tyrant guard feel no pain (that tevigon hid behind the swarmlord) while the other two marched right up along side(3 in total) and when tehy got there they spat out 3 hordes of guants and the whole shooty assualty rape of that turn was wonderful.... I mean the best part is is that you don't have to and shouldn't feel the need to blast out gaunts every three seconds, and by the way I was facing a full lash/oblit/nurglemarine army. Sure some gaunts died but with the combination of spore pods and genestealers I was able to herd his units where I wanted them just in time for my drop pods to come down and unleash hell with doomy zoanthropey gauntlike devourer goodness.

Don't forget pods have 6 str 6 shots so transports have a good chance at popping(even if BS2). I have to reiterate... DOOM DOOM DOOM.... he always took atleast twice his points back and was very very hard to kill having a 3+ inv and slowed amounts of regenerating wounds. Best part is one of my tervigons in most games were able to catch up with him and provide that nice feel no pain so his hits were always strong. I didn't use any heavys because although they look fun my tervigons are just as survivable , come with optional feel no pain, and are over all more useful in any scenario. I mean the big shiney heavy baddies any either have higher strength or more attacks or even shoot more but my tevigons cost less than most and survive better than all but the tyrannofex which it's on par with for much less points.

and the parasite was fun in case you were wondering because i hid him with some gaunts the first two games but he costs too much for how little he actually does.


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Sanctjud wrote:Well...I think disallowing characters is a problem.

So there are no Deathwing nor Ravenwing players?
There are so few 'special characters' these days if you put on the lawyer pants.

Special characters are much different than named characters which have been given the 'ok' by GW to be used in any list and at any time.
____________

That aside.

Logan's terminators are scoring units .
And generally a list like that is more focused at either: wiping you out, or going for a draw.

yeah arn't they kinda moving away from the special characters?

Dracos wrote:It would be more helpful to have some people who play Nids (read: not me) make lists and then try to determine weaknesses of those lists.

It's nice that you atleast admit you were trolling and had nothing to add to the discussion.

Mahu wrote:I think you hit the nail on the head as far as my experiences with them. Tyranids don't have the one crazy assault unit like other armies have. What we do have, I think is a a whole army of assault craziness that we have to capitalize on. Depending on Zoenthropes, Hive Guard, and Tervigons are a mistake in my opinion for exactly the reasons you describe. But mix in things like a few Genestealers, Alpha Warriors, Hive Tyrants, Revengers, Hormagaunts, Trygons, Carnifexes, etc. and you may not have one unit that can handle the other sides "super" units, but you throw enough cheaper things at it, and you can ware it down. Tyranids are where they need to be, in the war of attrition.

Like you said there's no doubt Tervigons and Hive Guard are one of the 'better' units in the codex but because of the variety in competitive builds in 40K currently one can't really max out on anything (atleast Tyranids can't) and expect to have a competitive all-rounder list. Depending on points limit, the Tyranids might have to invest quite heavily on real assault units that actually kill models (and not just tie them up) in order to stand a chance against certain other armies. Wolf cav and bikers can be in combat by turn two and normally there's no outshooting them.

kitsunez wrote:Tervigons are so wonderful for me... I marched a swarmlord through the middle of the battlefield giving him/tyrant guard feel no pain (that tevigon hid behind the swarmlord) while the other two marched right up along side(3 in total) and when tehy got there they spat out 3 hordes of guants and the whole shooty assualty rape of that turn was wonderful.... I mean the best part is is that you don't have to and shouldn't feel the need to blast out gaunts every three seconds, and by the way I was facing a full lash/oblit/nurglemarine army. Sure some gaunts died but with the combination of spore pods and genestealers I was able to herd his units where I wanted them just in time for my drop pods to come down and unleash hell with doomy zoanthropey gauntlike devourer goodness.

Don't forget pods have 6 str 6 shots so transports have a good chance at popping(even if BS2). I have to reiterate... DOOM DOOM DOOM.... he always took atleast twice his points back and was very very hard to kill having a 3+ inv and slowed amounts of regenerating wounds.

I agree with what you're saying as well. To me it seems like the experiences about the Tyranid codex are quite positive and it's nice to hear that apparently the book is a success. I'll be eagerly anticipating the first real exact army lists made out of the official English version of the codex. When you guys get the book, post your lists somewhere and write some battle reports. I'm sure people will be interested.

Good thoughts Manhu.

I agree that there are not alot of OM assault units in the codex. But what they do have is an abundance of units that are both decent at shooting (at least against infantry) and decent at CC.

Therefore, I wonder whether a nob biker squad is going to easily roll up over a nid army just because it has 2-3 man broods of hive guard. Hive guard have 24" range no LOS guns w/ str 8 which means no FNP, and no wound allocation due to instant death. Based on the codex leak, it seams that Hive Guard only ignore some cover situations, so I am guessing that the nobs will still be getting thier 4+ cover. Nevertheless, if Nids go first, that will give them 2 rounds to fire into the bikers at 12 shots per round. I know if I was an orc player, I wouldn't cherish 24 strength 8 shots pummeling my unit.

I am also wondering if this codex won't see lists that are more of a buffet of units (given all the various synergies and lack of no-brainer choices) rather than the typical power builds that feature 3-4 differnet units that are spammed to thier fullest.

I agree with the codex being well balanced. People looking to load up on any one unit will be punished. I'd dare the OP to run the tyranofex or Y.stealers and see how they atcually perform. I'm just glad my 15 warrriors will be back in full force!