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 Prometheum5 wrote:
Back when models were metal and plastic, there were tons of blister-packed sarges and champions and special weapon guys to give you more options and more variety than what could be made from the plastic grunt boxes. They gave you more flexibility in what you bought and how your army looked, as well as being cheaper 'impulse buy' items at the store, something that FLGS seem to be sorely lacking right now with the move to everything being large plastic boxes. Granted, $25 for a single character is less of an impulse buy than the days of a <$10 single metal sarge, but it's still valuable as a way to lower the barrier to entry if someone wants to buy a couple models to try out a scheme or see if they like an army's aesthetic.

"Gave you more flexibility".

Are your rose-tinted glasses actually blinders?

These existed because that was the extent of the technology and practicality at the time. Producing metal miniatures was -far- cheaper than making plastic miniatures, and plastic sets were very basic with few options (hell, most of them were the same model repeated over and over again, with the only variety being a separate sprue with shield designs). They don't need to go back to this because GW's plastic technology is incredible and their ability to make fully modular kits is the single most impressive thing about the company. They make fantastic miniatures with a variety of art styles and options that we should all be exceptionally happy about.

This has nothing to do with impulse buys or lowering the barrier to entry (how do AUD$60 character models lower the barrier to entry exactly?). Moving to this era you describe is a massive step backwards.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Quote where GW said they are lowering prices, please.

A number of years ago it was Jervis Johnson or Rick Priestly (im more sure it was JJ) who said the rise in plastic kits (during greatsword release) meant we would have cheapr units in plastic (compared to metal). Whilst its been around 10-15 years since, plastic prices have sky rocketed (current bog standard terminators as an example) and new kits are generally pretty hefty. The quality has increased but some things are crazily expensive comparitively (mortarion to magnus for example)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
What on earth were they thinking! I thought we'd see a leveling off of prices for a while, appears that's not going to be the case.

Smoke and mirrors.

A few of us have been saying it for a while, but many were blinded by funny YouTube videos and a community site.

Woah there sir.

I'm pleased with attitude changes. GW's attitude to it's customer base prior to the changes was all out hostile, you could feel the disdain for the plebs leaking from the few comments that came out of the Citadel back prior to the change of chairman.

I'm pleased with the more open and engaging culture. They are listening and more importantly they are engaging at all when before GW had become isolated and removed from the community altogether. They are interacting with tournament organizers, they are opening the doors again.

I'm just not pleased with the prices and that's it, frankly.

My comment is not some wonderful opportunity to unleash all the old 'told you so' bollocks, we're not victims of some mustache-twirling diabolical ruse where GW pretends to be the girl we initially fell in love with only to reveal that actually she is still a she demon set on ruining us, this is just a mini making company, not Ron Swanson's ex-wife. Those other issues were issues and they've gotten considerably better and I'll put credit where credit is due. But I am pissed off with how expensive this new stuff is and it frankly puts pay to my starting a new GW army. They can decide if their sales model can sustain that, I can finish off my several other armies and then wait and see if the prices settle down again or if I start looking at other things to spend my cash on.

Wayniac wrote:
What's pissing me off the most is the lack of customization. The main selling point for Warhammer versus other game systems was that you used to be able to get a kit and build each guy slightly different; it wasn't any of this "Piece 34 only goes with piece 57, Arm 4 and 5, and legs 21 and 23" monopose stuff. Now, you can only build kits certain ways, you can't just cut out all the legs, torsos, arms and heads and then sort of "costume design" models to have certain things.

I agree with this 100%. Part of the appeal of this game for me is the modelling aspect. I was excited when the Death Guard were announced... until I realized that pretty much the entire army will be made up of mono posed dudes with the occasional weapon swap. I don't think we've gotten a new Death Guard model that wasn't, barring a weapon swap here and there, completely mono posed. This lack of customization was enough to kill the army for me. The same thing happened with the Primaris Marines. Want an Apothecary? One pose with two helmets. Want a Librarian? One pose with two helmets. Want a Chaplain? One pose, no options. Want a Gravis Captain? One pose, no options. I could see paying $35 each for a poseable kit with a variety of weapon options. $35 for a mono posed kit with no real options? No thanks.

I'm going to hold judgement until we get solid evidence on the size of the Plague Marine box, if it's really 7-man than I will thoroughly disappointed for the first time this release.

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I'm going to hold judgement until we get solid evidence on the size of the Plague Marine box, if it's really 7-man than I will thoroughly disappointed for the first time this release.

Seven models in the WD pic would seem to confirm that based on how they've shown other new products. I was hoping it would be a 10-man box so you could assemble ten troopers and then grab clampack/easy-build/DI champs and special weapon guys to make two good squads.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I'm going to hold judgement until we get solid evidence on the size of the Plague Marine box, if it's really 7-man than I will thoroughly disappointed for the first time this release.

Seven models in the WD pic would seem to confirm that based on how they've shown other new products. I was hoping it would be a 10-man box so you could assemble ten troopers and then grab clampack/easy-build/DI champs and special weapon guys to make two good squads.

I'm still holding out hope, I'm going to start looking through the codex to see how many leg poses I can see, hopefully that'll help?

£30 for a single drone? :(

zerosignal wrote:
£30 for a single drone? :(

I figured that would be the case, they're about the same size (Plastic wise) as the Helbrute and they come with a lot of options (Cosmetic included), and the Helbrute's 54$

Besides the price, the Plague Marines won't be released until Oct 14th? WTF is the holdup with this release? Are they trying to hamstirng independents who give bulk discounts? I just can't figure out what the point of dragging a release out for a month and a half is.

The Plagueburst Crawler being $85 is steep too, I was expecting $65. Death Guard are turning out to be a lot more expensive than I first thought they would be, even by GW standards.

So what all are people determined to get? I'm getting a single box of the new PM to play around with, but I'm on the fence on the rest. I like the blight crawler alright, I'm just not sure I like it that much more than the predator in looks or playstyle. The more I see the drones and haulers the less I like them, deathshroud look nice but I like the FW version better (size issues and all). I've also got terminators that work as blight lords I'm not in a hurry to discard.

I'll probably end up with one of each new characters as well eventually, but I'm not in a hurry to get most of them.

I expected there to be a unit that just grabbed me and I had to get a few of, but that's just not happening here.

I got Dark Imperium and Know no Fear, and given that the releases look pretty disappointing and way too pricey for me, I think that would be enough. I'll use them with the rest of my CSM and that will be it.

Was going to re-do my Death Guard for 30k in the new scale/look as I already have a chunk of models in the forge world torso range and was looking to get cool legs too. But since that's probably 100 models that would need to be replaced and going by the very likely 7 models in this box - not happening now at these price points.

I'll probably just wind up with one box of everything and have it as a 40k mostly army now and steal my 30k slightly plague marine models for use in 40k rather than the reverse.

Bit disappointed, 90% sure that that's a 7 man box we'll be getting, which is very short sighted.

Wayniac wrote:
The Plagueburst Crawler being $85 is steep too, I was expecting $65. Death Guard are turning out to be a lot more expensive than I first thought they would be, even by GW standards.

This should be expected though by this point.

Land Raider 74$ Repulsor 80$ Plague Tank 85$ All same size.

Magnus 130$ Morty 140$ and Magnus is bigger. Every new release is just going to be more expensive then the last.

New players are going to be hit the most, and will eventually have such a price barrier they cant get new ones in.

 Albertorius wrote:
I got Dark Imperium and Know no Fear, and given that the releases look pretty disappointing and way too pricey for me, I think that would be enough. I'll use them with the rest of my CSM and that will be it.

That's kinda what I'm feeling as well. I'll probably use a detachment, but I'm not sure my main army really counts as DG anymore.

Wayniac wrote:
The Plagueburst Crawler being $85 is steep too, I was expecting $65. Death Guard are turning out to be a lot more expensive than I first thought they would be, even by GW standards.

I see $65. Especially when you compare the other prices, seems to point to that.

As others have spotted, its really worrying the blighthaulers aren't shown, given that the plague marines on oct 14th are in the WD. Especially as they seemed to be one of the top units ruleswise. Also the fact that its the only model we've seen that's being held back doesn't lend itself to "2nd wave" theories.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
What on earth were they thinking! I thought we'd see a leveling off of prices for a while, appears that's not going to be the case.

Smoke and mirrors.

A few of us have been saying it for a while, but many were blinded by funny YouTube videos and a community site.

Yeah, it's pretty fascinating how a basic social media presence will not only convince people you've 150% changed, but will defend your honour to the death at the slightest hint of criticism.

If we can still make different Champions/icon bearers via the Plague Marine box then a few unique, but unncessary standalone models won't be so bad. My concern is that if these models sell well, it's going to start becoming the norm that stuff like sergeants, champions and attachments will start being sold separately.

Back when models were metal and plastic, there were tons of blister-packed sarges and champions and special weapon guys to give you more options and more variety than what could be made from the plastic grunt boxes. They gave you more flexibility in what you bought and how your army looked, as well as being cheaper 'impulse buy' items at the store, something that FLGS seem to be sorely lacking right now with the move to everything being large plastic boxes. Granted, $25 for a single character is less of an impulse buy than the days of a <$10 single metal sarge, but it's still valuable as a way to lower the barrier to entry if someone wants to buy a couple models to try out a scheme or see if they like an army's aesthetic.

I know how it worked 'back in the day' considering I spent £5 if I wanted to add a Multi-Melta to my Tactical Squad or £6 if I wanted to add a pair of Meltaguns to my Guardsmen.

Not £15 for the SERGEANT.

The thing as well as is, sprues back then just more limited in general. Space Marines had a missile launcher and a flamer, that was it. Fine. But these days we've got used to having the whole suite of options on the newer sprues... and now they're backpeddling on that. If people are willing to defend that, then I reckon they're just too far gone. I have less of an issue with things like alternate sculpts (Plague Brethren are a rip-off, but at least we're getting Plague Marines) so long as those options are still in the box. I mean hell, the absolutely ancient CSM box has FOUR Icons too.

 Arbitrator wrote:
The thing as well as is, sprues back then just more limited in general. Space Marines had a missile launcher and a flamer, that was it. Fine. But these days we've got used to having the whole suite of options on the newer sprues... and now they're backpeddling on that. If people are willing to defend that, then I reckon they're just too far gone. I have less of an issue with things like alternate sculpts (Plague Brethren are a rip-off, but at least we're getting Plague Marines) so long as those options are still in the box. I mean hell, the absolutely ancient CSM box has FOUR Icons too.

The WD promo image for the Plague Marines box CLEARLY shows a model with an icon AND a model with sergeant gear. Unless GW falsely advertised the contents of the box (which I don't think they ever did), you won't need to buy those options as extras unless you want to.

In the same vein, the price for the Plagecrawler is CLEARLY 40 GBP, which translates to 65 USD, and NOT 85.

I blame the photographers of these rumours for not doing proper pictures.

SilverAlien wrote:
So what all are people determined to get? I'm getting a single box of the new PM to play around with, but I'm on the fence on the rest. I like the blight crawler alright, I'm just not sure I like it that much more than the predator in looks or playstyle. The more I see the drones and haulers the less I like them, deathshroud look nice but I like the FW version better (size issues and all). I've also got terminators that work as blight lords I'm not in a hurry to discard.

I'll probably end up with one of each new characters as well eventually, but I'm not in a hurry to get most of them.

I expected there to be a unit that just grabbed me and I had to get a few of, but that's just not happening here.

I agree, and going back to your previous statement, I have gotten pretty disheartened with this release, which is really disappointing, because my hopes were so high. It's a perfect storm of small complaints about the release that is starting to turn it sour for me. Lacking rules here and there, limited options in the boxes, unnecessarily-dragged-out release schedule. I have been waiting with bated breath for months and I feel like I have Death Guard fatigue, so small complaints add up and probably seem larger than they are.

A 7 Plague Marine box is gonna be pretty dissapointing. At least the Icon Bearer and Sargeant are just alternative and more nice sculpts.
I like to run my Plague Marines in 5 man squads (I use the 3 easy to build ones + the 7 DI ones to run two 5 man squads), so a 7 plague marine box is gonna screw me over.

I may have to take a break from this site... People often call me opinionated and judgmental, but hot damn!

How many years have Chaos players been complaining about no new units and models?

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
New plastic Typhus is $40 USD, that's $7 less expensive than the resin FW Typhus on enormous resin display base...

What on earth were they thinking! I thought we'd see a leveling off of prices for a while, appears that's not going to be the case.

You miss the part where he costs exactly the same as Ahriman, who's been out for a while now.

Watching this thread is like watching a Beast of Nurgle slowly turn into a Plague Drone

...And plague marines are reaching a point where FW is cheaper too.

Oh man, this is killing me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I may have to take a break from this site... People often call me opinionated and judgmental, but hot damn!

How many years have Chaos players been complaining about no new units and models?

Ok, picture this. Just picture this.

Your army goes with sub-par releases and odds and ends that don't form a coherent range for years. Close to a decade in fact.

And then, your army becomes a new faction. You lost half your army. The other half have sweeping wargear changes. And the new models are monopose pieces of gak which seem to be even less flexible than the previous release before it.

How happy are you about this?

Well, I don't like the "monoposability" of the DG release, but calling them "pieces of gak" is a bit of a strench.

But I can see the point about how this DG release is very good for people that didn't had a DG army, and totally screws people that do.
I this point I think people with DG armies could be better served with a generic nurgle army with the Chaos Space Marines Codex.

 Galas wrote:
Well, I don't like the "monoposability" of the DG release, but calling them "pieces of gak" is a bit of a strench.

But I can see the point about how this DG release is very good for people that didn't had a DG army, and totally screws people that do.
I this point I think people with DG armies could be better served with a generic nurgle army with the Chaos Space Marines Codex.

This could have been fine in 7th, but in 8th "just" the mark of nurgle is not longer enough to have a feel of nurgle army.
Heck, even in the very DG codex the chaos lord has no DR or higher toughness because they want to use the same datasheet.
Even if the prince of nurgle gets DR.

I don't know if they behave like this because of chapterhouse but is damn annoying.

The pricing and lack of customization are indeed disheartening. The PM box better have enough weapons to fully kit out one squad!

I still don't know what my army list is going to be like, but at this point I'll buy in anyway. Albeit through bits sellers and converting DI models.