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On the BGB it says infantry with jump pack could use DS rule, I'm wondering whether this will work with MC ,ie. a winged Hive tyrant ? Thx in advance

ED209 wrote:On the BGB it says infantry with jump pack could use DS rule, I'm wondering whether this will work with MC ,ie. a winged Hive tyrant ? Thx in advance

No.

Wings allow the Model to MOVE AS Jump Infantry.

They do not become Jump Infantry.

Thus, they cannot Deep Strike, as it is a rule inherent to the model actually being the type "Jump Infantry", which a Hive Tyrant with Wings is not.

A MC with wings can, I thought. I know that's not a jump pack, though.

Isn't deepstriking considered movement?

Asmodeus wrote:A MC with wings can, I thought. I know that's not a jump pack, though.

Nope. Wings allow the model to move as Jump Infantry. They do not become Jump Infantry, so cannot deep strike as jump infantry can.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CptZach wrote:Isn't deepstriking considered movement?

No. Models who deep strike count as moving for the purposes of shooting, but it is not actually movement.

Jump pack movement is given with wings. Jump pack movement states that jump infantry may deepstrike. Since the tyrant isn't jump infantry it may not deepstrike

Correct me if I'm wrong Gwar!, but didn't you argue that a Librarian couldn't Gate of infinity out of close combat because the deepstriking made it moving out of close combat?

CptZach wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong Gwar!, but didn't you argue that a Librarian couldn't Gate of infinity out of close combat because the deepstriking made it moving out of close combat?

Yes, you are wrong.

You cannot GoI out of Close Combat because it doesn't say you can.

Thx guys, it is pretty clear now

Erm, I thought the new Nid codex made models with Wings ACTUAL Jump Infantry? For example Gargoyles have Wings and have Unit Type: Jump Infantry

nosferatu1001 wrote:Erm, I thought the new Nid codex made models with Wings ACTUAL Jump Infantry? For example Gargoyles have Wings and have Unit Type: Jump Infantry

"Move in the same way as Jump Infantry"
However, gargoyles (and others that do not have wings optional) are listed as JI as well.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Erm, I thought the new Nid codex made models with Wings ACTUAL Jump Infantry? For example Gargoyles have Wings and have Unit Type: Jump Infantry

Some units have Wings and are also Jump Infantry.

Models that are not Jump Infantry sometimes have an option to purchase the Biomorph called "Wings".

The rules for Wings state: Models equipped with wings move In the same way as Jump Infantry, as described in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

Thus, models who are not Jump Infantry and also have Wings, move as jump infantry but do not become jump infantry.

This way, models for whom wings are not optional DO get to deep strike, while those models for whom wings are an upgrade cannot deep strike.

A daemon prince with Wings can DS. The only MC i know of that can though.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Erm, I thought the new Nid codex made models with Wings ACTUAL Jump Infantry? For example Gargoyles have Wings and have Unit Type: Jump Infantry

Page 84 wrote: Wings: fluff

Models equiped with wings move in the same way as jump infanty, as described in the Wahammer 40,000 rulebook.

Most models that get wings are jump infantry but not all. Harpy is just a MC in the same way the tyrant is.

Kurgash wrote:A daemon prince with Wings can DS. The only MC i know of that can though.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of. I don't know Tyranids very well.

Kurgash wrote:A daemon prince with Wings can DS. The only MC i know of that can though.

A daemon prince with wings can deep strike because the CSM codex says that they can deep strike as the last sentence in the wargear entry for wings. I'm a bit surprised that the Tyranid codex doesn't include similar wording.

Disclaimer: And I'll be really sad if the Tyranid codex does include similar wording and people are still arguing about it.

solkan wrote:Disclaimer: And I'll be really sad if the Tyranid codex does include similar wording and people are still arguing about it.

Lol. There's been bigger arguments over less.

solkan wrote:

Kurgash wrote:A daemon prince with Wings can DS. The only MC i know of that can though.

A daemon prince with wings can deep strike because the CSM codex says that they can deep strike as the last sentence in the wargear entry for wings. I'm a bit surprised that the Tyranid codex doesn't include similar wording.

Disclaimer: And I'll be really sad if the Tyranid codex does include similar wording and people are still arguing about it.

All it says is move as jump infantry no more no less.

The sad thing is that I picked up a copy of the Tyranid codex today just so that I could stop relying on second hand accounts of the wording. Why, oh why, does GW continue to put redundant wargear entries onto models, and give us jump infantry which have a rule allowing them to move as jump infantry?!?

So, no deep striking winged Hive Tyrant or Harpy until/unless FAQ'd.

solkan wrote:The sad thing is that I picked up a copy of the Tyranid codex today just so that I could stop relying on second hand accounts of the wording. Why, oh why, does GW continue to put redundant wargear entries onto models, and give us jump infantry which have a rule allowing them to move as jump infantry?!?

I'll take redundant wargear that is meaningless given the unit type over failing to give a unit wargear or a unit type (see: Reaver Jetbikes).

And when they leave the wargear off sometimes it creates more problems than listing it would (see: Thunderwolf Cavalry). The best way to do it IMO is to not list any of the wargear attributes on the unit and then just give them the wargear, I'm sure we will work it out, but for some reason GW think that would be too confusing.

I understand that there is a difference between moving as jump infantry and being jump infantry, but if an upgrade such as wings claim that the model may move as jump infantry, shouldn't the "movement" section under "jump infantry" in the rulebook be considered? It is contained within the movement section that it says "jump infantry" may move 12 inches and deep strike. Now im jtrying to decide whether deep striking is considered movement............

Deep Striking is Deployment, much different from movement.

InquisitorFabius wrote:Deep Striking is Deployment, much different from movement.

Veil of Darkness says otherwise.

Necrons: breaking the rules everyone tries so hard to enforce since 2002

And guess what, its a special kind of Deepstrike.

Well I do not play nids, nor am I looking to get into a big argument, but the "moves as if it were jump infantry" to me means you can use the entire paragraph found in the "jump Infantry movement" section of the rules. It states jump infantry may enter the game via deepstrike. Now I know the argument is "it says jump infantry not things that move as jump infantry." But the entry is in the movement section of jump infantry. If the unit is put in reserves, is it not entering the board in the movement phase. I do not believe their is a "deployment" phase once the battle has begun. You can bash my comment all you want, but I would say a winged creature that "moves as if it were jump infantry" could deepstrike.

If I am wrong can anyone point out the FAQ or rulebook quotation that states moving as jump infantry does not include the deepstrike sentence of the movement paragraph in the BGB, or state an example of a unit not allowed to deepstrike that "moves as if jump infantry"?? Are their any units in the game that move like jump infantry i.e. they have wings, but can not deepstrike?? (other than the current ones we are arguing about.

I like Norbu's point of view on this.

Codex says all tyranids with wings move same way as jump infantry as described in the rule book.
Rule book under jump infantry movement says they can deep strike so yes tyrant with wing can deep strike.
I have used it in several tournys and had a few people question it even in ard boyz and no tourny organizer has ever disallowed me deep striking a tyrant and everyone that has questioned it changed their stance after reading the codex and the rule book. The new codex is the exact same on wings as the last codex so no change there.
The rules in the rule book and codex are very clear I don't see how this is confusing so many people. Even the deep strike part is under jump infantry movement.

+1 Its like the Spiking Steam Tanks debate ages ago.

No cookie for Gwar.

-Sigh-

Models MOVE as if Jump Infantry.

They do NOT Follow all the rules found in the Movement section of Jump Infantry.

They only MOVE AS IF JUMP INFANTRY. As in, when you move them, they move as if Jump Infantry, but are NOT Jump Infantry and CANNOT deep strike as Jump Infantry.

DEEP STRIKING IS NOT MOVEMENT.

Get it now?