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Reading the thread regarding the tech priest army plans way back before 3rd ed and reading some of the erstwhile Mr Chambers' plans for 40K got me thinking - I realise it may have been discussed here before at the time, but does anyone actually know why he left / was pushed from GW? I have heard so many conflicting stories about it. Obviously we are all aware of what he has gone on to do but is there any truth to the rumours that were doing the rounds? I wonder if the truth has come out now that the dust has settled somewhat. Does Dakka think that 40k is better or worse for his departure?

I have no idea how much influence he had on the game, but 40k got a whole lot better soon after his departure. Could be a total coincidence. Could just be due to Pete "Iron Warrior" Haines leaving shortly after Andy.

lord_blackfang wrote:I have no idea how much influence he had on the game, but 40k got a whole lot better soon after his departure. Could be a total coincidence. Could just be due to Pete "Iron Warrior" Haines leaving shortly after Andy.

I know next to nothing about the whole situation given that I didn't really participate in online 40k discussion back then. Did GW have a purge of the design team or was it coincidence that the two left at the same time?

I'm guessing they both moved onto start up Mongoose together. I've always reckoned it was to have a lot less commercial oversight from marketing on the games design. As he did set up what was pretty much his own company afterwards. Its like Paul Sawyer stting up Warlord Games......That sort of stuff

There was bit of dispute over the 4th edition rule book between Mr Chambers and GW. There was a portion of the rule book GW didn't want to include so that it could be released at a later time as an expansion. Something in the vein of more detailed advanced rules; ammo rolls and the such. I never heard more than that, there may have been more leading upto or just more to it. My impression was not that it necessarily got heated but that he just took it as a sign of the times and decided to move on.

Llamahead wrote:I'm guessing they both moved onto start up Mongoose together. I've always reckoned it was to have a lot less commercial oversight from marketing on the games design. As he did set up what was pretty much his own company afterwards. Its like Paul Sawyer stting up Warlord Games......That sort of stuff

He didn't start Mongoose, Mongoose hired him to write the Startship Troopers rules.

He was working for Blizzard at last sighting.

And the last time one of these threads started up, the inside information turned out to be that he was sacked for actions relating to "extra curricular activities" with another staff member's partner. Nothing game-related at all.

Pete Haines was made redundant a couple of years later as part of a cost cutting exercise following the second bursting of the LotR bubble.

Mongoose is nothing to do with either, although it is possible that the SST rules were developed from an initial idea by AC. However as ideas aren't copyrightable, we'll never know.

Not quite.

Andy left after a big blow to do with his version of 4th edition which, whilst..... interesting..., wasn't what the GW management had actually tasked him to deliver. This was pretty much the straw that broke the camel's back and he and GW parted ways not long after.

Mr. Haines took the chance to jump ship when they restructured the design studio a few years later, didn't want to take a pay cut and wasn't all that keen on sticking round after his friend Andy had gone.

Some of his work for 4th edition was indeed folded into Starship Troopers, exactly what parts and how they were tweaked is lost tot he mists of history and the vagaries of human memory.

But.. my understanding is that the version of 40K he delivered rendered every single current codex invalid and would have involved the company doing a complete reboot of the 40k books, like they did for 3rd edition.

Osbad wrote:
And the last time one of these threads started up, the inside information turned out to be that he was sacked for actions relating to "extra curricular activities" with another staff member's partner. Nothing game-related at all.

This is the rumour that I had heard, however I didn't put much credence in it at the time. Is the source it comes from reliable or is another one of those interweb-my-best-friend's-mates-uncles-dog-says type rumours?

filbert wrote:

Osbad wrote:
And the last time one of these threads started up, the inside information turned out to be that he was sacked for actions relating to "extra curricular activities" with another staff member's partner. Nothing game-related at all.

This is the rumour that I had heard, however I didn't put much credence in it at the time. Is the source it comes from reliable or is another one of those interweb-my-best-friend's-mates-uncles-dog-says type rumours?

I'd have to search the forum (or maybe even Warseer), and I can't be arsed, but IIRC the guy posting was someone reliable. I heard that he was pushed, rather than jumping. But for non-game-related reasons. Although I don't deny he was wanting to take 40k in a direction the bigwigs weren't wanting to go because of the massive impact on production schedules and obsolescence of existing models/books. While those disagreements probably were at the root of a certain level of dissatisfaction between Mr C and the EE, I don't think they sacked him for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, here we go. Turns out I can be arsed after all.

2006: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/123771.page#123771

reds8n wrote:
But.. my understanding is that the version of 40K he delivered rendered every single current codex invalid and would have involved the company doing a complete reboot of the 40k books, like they did for 3rd edition.

Which is something they should probably do again, at some point.

"Ravening Hordes" it up for a bit (OK, more that a bit for some, granted!) and get this thing balanced!

Don't be afraid to use a little statistical analysis GW!

I heard Chambers left after being injured in an incident in the GW factory. From what I understand they dropped the Land Raider mold and it shattered, some shards of the mold were lodged in Chamber's back near his spine. When he asked GW for recompense they denied so he quit.

Oh dear. Turns out all the juicy goss on Mr C was redacted by the Warseer Modquisition. How sad.

And SST was indeed the "40k 4th edition" that Mr C envisioned. At least in part.

Totally off topic but last night I found WD128 - the first one I ever bought and it was because of an Andy Chambers article.

I'd just gotten into 1st edition epic and AC wrote the Ork army list in that edition of WD, including his choices for a 'sample' list that was a snip at 15,500 points!!

Those were the days...

Osbad wrote:Oh dear. Turns out all the juicy goss on Mr C was redacted by the Warseer Modquisition. How sad.

And SST was indeed the "40k 4th edition" that Mr C envisioned. At least in part.

Yes, just seen that in the thread you linked. Shame.

reds8n wrote:Andy left after a big blow to do with his version of 4th edition

But.. my understanding is that the version of 40K he delivered rendered every single current codex invalid and would have involved the company doing a complete reboot of the 40k books, like they did for 3rd edition.

No wonder - he deserved the boot.

Not sure about most of the above, but the following two items are statements of fact:

- Andy Chambers did indeed develop the Starship Troopers rule set. He is credited in the main rule book.

- Andy Chambers does indeed work now for Blizzard as Creative Director on Starcraft II.


Some documentation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Chambers
(Links are provided within the above article for further documentation)

Whereas I've heard a completely different story from a number of sources. Something along the line of him being extremely rude several times to other Studio Members, and being given his marching orders, leaving under a cloud.

He's been busy.

He left for creative differences issues. Thats niceguy speak for Andy someone off. I knew he did after his interview at Games day a couple of years ago. You could tell by his attitude that he wasn't drinking the Kool Aid enough for them. He let them know what he thought, so... You know GW.

I'll throw in as well, that GW at the time had a purge. He wasn't the last one to hit the bricks at that time. Last guy standing was Jervis. He knows not to mess with the golden goose, and where his bread is buttered.


http://www.redstargames.net/

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/08/17/interview-andy-chambers-on-writing-starcraft-2/

http://www.warvault.net/interviews/andy_chambers.php-- Something wrong with this link. You need to adjust the colors on the interview.

He's on facebook, you could ask him.

I remember reading that his leaving is covered by an NDA.

Alpharius wrote:

reds8n wrote:
But.. my understanding is that the version of 40K he delivered rendered every single current codex invalid and would have involved the company doing a complete reboot of the 40k books, like they did for 3rd edition.

Which is something they should probably do again, at some point.

"Ravening Hordes" it up for a bit (OK, more that a bit for some, granted!) and get this thing balanced!

Don't be afraid to use a little statistical analysis GW!

you seem to forget that their "statistical analysis" is the reason that we have marines every other book.

Howlingmoon wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

reds8n wrote:
But.. my understanding is that the version of 40K he delivered rendered every single current codex invalid and would have involved the company doing a complete reboot of the 40k books, like they did for 3rd edition.

Which is something they should probably do again, at some point.

"Ravening Hordes" it up for a bit (OK, more that a bit for some, granted!) and get this thing balanced!

Don't be afraid to use a little statistical analysis GW!

you seem to forget that their "statistical analysis" is the reason that we have marines every other book.

Ha!

Fair point - though that's a bit of a different type of statistical analysis than I was thinking of... that's more market analysis.

Which can and will change if people vote with their wallets!

reds8n wrote:Not quite.

Andy left after a big blow to do with his version of 4th edition which, whilst..... interesting..., wasn't what the GW management had actually tasked him to deliver. This was pretty much the straw that broke the camel's back and he and GW parted ways not long after.

Some of his work for 4th edition was indeed folded into Starship Troopers, exactly what parts and how they were tweaked is lost tot he mists of history and the vagaries of human memory.

But.. my understanding is that the version of 40K he delivered rendered every single current codex invalid and would have involved the company doing a complete reboot of the 40k books, like they did for 3rd edition.

This matches what I heard-- supposedly the two-roll system (hit and wound integrated into one roll, then save) used in SST was Andy's model for 4th edition 40k. However, this would have required them to invalidate all the old Codices like they did in the 2nd-3rd jump, so GW refused to go along with it.

It's shame then that due to a combination of NDAs and moderated forum posts being cleansed of rumour and conjecture, we are no closer to knowing what really went on.

Howlingmoon wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Don't be afraid to use a little statistical analysis GW!

you seem to forget that their "statistical analysis" is the reason that we have marines every other book.

And that their "statistical analysis" only services what new things they can sell, making the rules nothing more than means to an end.

George Spiggott wrote:

I remember reading that his leaving is covered by an NDA.

I believe it is.

Something along the line of him being extremely rude several times to other Studio Members, and being given his marching orders, leaving under a cloud.

certainly part of it.

pro tip : don't call your line manager (even if he is ) a fething witch in a stand up shouting match.

My understanding is that by the end of his tenure he was working 4 out of 5 days at home.

Still everyone seems to be doing alright for themselves now.

Fetterkey wrote:
This matches what I heard-- supposedly the two-roll system (hit and wound integrated into one roll, then save) used in SST was Andy's model for 4th edition 40k. However, this would have required them to invalidate all the old Codices like they did in the 2nd-3rd jump, so GW refused to go along with it.

I remember hearing something like this, too. Vehicles and models would just have strength, vehicles and infantry would have a single stat instead of toughness, armor value, or armor save.

Starship Troopers is rather good. It's a shame that it never happened.

Flames of War also has a hit/wound + Save game mechanic as does Lord of the Rings, both are respected rules systems.

1. To my understanding, when Andy Chambers left- look at GW's stocks and such. Thats when GW collapsed. Thats when a lot of GW people left GW.

2. Starcraft & Blizzard >> GW anyways.

Hes in a better place.

With the essential known public elements pretty much covered now and the essential health of all parties being rude to say the least, best we let this one die now, if only for politeness' sake.