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I thought I'd share a little email exchange with you all I've had with the Forgeworld Customer Services Manager (I'll remove all names, just leave titles). I recently ordered some stuff, to which the P&P cost came to 14.65 or 12% of my Order. In the box where you can enter the '1 Forgeworld Model to be made' request, I put in "Free P&P, because lets be honest, to post what I've bought isn't going to cost 14.65". Surprisingly, I received the following email from Forgeworld............

===========================================
Hi,

Thanks for placing the above order. To explain our shipping costs, an order within the UK is charged 12% of the total value of the order in shipping and handling, as we endeavour to ensure that our orders are packed in such a way as to minimise any potential for damage in transit.
You will not receive your order in a jiffy bag or similar, as many wargames companies use, but instead firmly packed in a sturdy box. Note that resin kits are often heavy, and as you are no doubt aware the weight of a parcel also affects the postage cost.
Please don’t hesitate to contact us if you have any further queries.
Regards,
Customer Service Manager,Forge World

===========================================

So when the box arrived, I took it to the Royal Mail Office, and was quoted 2.41 to post it First Class (the same method as FW) to anywhere in the UK. I emailed the Customer Service Manager back.......

===========================================

Thanks for your reply. I waited until I had recieved my order before replying. I took the parcel to the Post Office and had it weighed and quoted for First Class Post to anywhere in the UK .
2.41 GBP. Quite a large difference to the +14.00 GBP charged by Forgeworld. I can't see how a small box and bubble wrap or even the 2 mins of labour could cost +11.00 GBP, so my original comment still stands. It does not cost 14.00 to send out my Forgeworld Order to me.
A GW mail Order is free shipping over 50GBP. Malestrom Games send out all their items, including resin, P&P is free, and they are in a sturdy box, padded with bubble wrap, just like Forgeworld.
Seeing as I have now proven the Forgeworld have overcharged me for P&P by a factor of +400% on this order, please feel free to refund me or send me some Vouchers. Your email below suggests you feel Forgeworld do not overcharge on P&P, clearly you do.
Thanks

============================================

And surprisingly, I recieved a reply........................

============================================

Thanks for your e-mail.
Here at Forge World we endeavour to provide a quality service that ensures you receive our products in the most effective way. Our team regularly review the prices we charge for shipping, and these are to cover our costs not make a profit. As you may have noticed, we offer free Express shipping on large orders and currently free standard shipping on all orders over £150 – we anticipate this to be a long-term offer that will benefit many of our customers.
You can also visit us at events such as our forthcoming Open Day here in Nottingham on March 28th, at which you can come and pick up almost anything in our range. The Open Day will also allow you to meet our entire staff including our Studio of writers, artists and sculptors, as well as to play some fantastic games and view work-in-progress models, books and artwork. The Open Day is free to attend and is a great way to save on Shipping costs.
We hope to see you there! If you have any further queries, please don’t hesitate me to contact me.

=============================================

So I have contacted FW, and I will take the matter higher when I'm at the next shareholders meeting. I've pointed out that the packing box and wrap it part of the cost of the product, as if you buy it direct from GW HQ, it comes in that box without any additinal charges. As a company they can charge whatever they like for P&P, but to blatently lie to a customer and claim their P&P charges are at cost, when I've proven they are out by a factor of +400% in their favour (in this instance), is what rattles me. Quote from the email above "cover our costs not make a profit". Does anyone else think this is a lie, or is it me?

He would have been better not to reply to me, rather than dig this rather large hole for himself. In trying to convince me in the truth of a lie, he's actually made it worse.

TheSecretSquig wrote:The Open Day is free to attend and is a great way to save on Shipping costs.

This bit made me laugh a bit seeing as it would probably cost me 25 quid to even get there!

I agree with you on this , but I hate to say you will probably get squat. I am shocked though I remember times when they misshipped me something and instead of having me send it back to get a new one let me keep it and they shipped me the item I asked for. My how their customer service has changed.

I agree with you too. As far i I can tell, on the larger models there's not much more packaging than if you buy it at a show... and surely they have aditional transport/staff costs on top of normal costs at shows. (obviously, no transport at warhams world).

That response you got is a load of

OP

Was this sent via Royal Mail in the first place or by a courier/PDS?

If it was sent RM then Forgeworld have a lot of explaining to do.

Mr. Burning wrote:OP

Was this sent via Royal Mail in the first place or by a courier/PDS?

If it was sent RM then Forgeworld have a lot of explaining to do.

Unless you actually specifically want Express Delivery or your order is <£250, then yes, they will be using Royal Mail, or Royal Fail as I call it.

Mr. Burning wrote:OP

Was this sent via Royal Mail in the first place or by a courier/PDS?

If it was sent RM then Forgeworld have a lot of explaining to do.

Sent by Royal Mail, not courier. It was weighed at the same Post Office my Partner picked it up from. Its the statement of 'We do not profit from P&P' which has really rattled me, when clearly I've proven they do.

A 'Customer Service Manager' should not lie to a customer.

Valkyrie wrote:

Mr. Burning wrote:OP

Was this sent via Royal Mail in the first place or by a courier/PDS?

If it was sent RM then Forgeworld have a lot of explaining to do.

Unless you actually specifically want Express Delivery or your order is <£250, then yes, they will be using Royal Mail, or Royal Fail as I call it.

Er, actually they've STOPPED using Royal Mail because of all the strikes. They're only (supposed to, at least) be using Courier services.

I've actually had a few more email discussions with Forgeworld now since I posted this. I won't go into the details of them as I've posted enough to start the debate on Dakka.

Lets just say I 100% disagree with their explanation of the high P&P costs and can't really afford to play email 'ping pong' with them anymore.

I will be accepting an invitation to meet and discuss further at GW Notts when I'm next on leave and able to get abck to the UK. Its been interesting.

TheSecretSquig wrote:

Mr. Burning wrote:OP

Was this sent via Royal Mail in the first place or by a courier/PDS?

If it was sent RM then Forgeworld have a lot of explaining to do.

Sent by Royal Mail, not courier. It was weighed at the same Post Office my Partner picked it up from. Its the statement of 'We do not profit from P&P' which has really rattled me, when clearly I've proven they do.

A 'Customer Service Manager' should not lie to a customer.

I was trying to understand what else they could be charging for, but, frikkin heck!, packaging and labour don't justify that price. It's like a bad ebay seller whacking postage up to recoup some of the fees.

Well that was a nicer reply than the one I got. My one said:

"We owe you nothing."


And nothing more...

Wow... I was considering getting some FW stuff after I was done my Gamezone models, but this really, really puts me off. It's like they try to make GW look like saints.

What always gets me about Forgeworld is that they charge VAT to non-EU residents. I'm a UK resident myself, so I have no personal beef, but it does seem extremely cheeky to charge (say) US and Australian residents a 17.5% tax that they are exempt from! That 17.5% goes straight into Forgeworld's back pocket in a very underhand and sly way.

It's Games Workshop, just wearing a different hat. Like diet Pepsi: same crap, different wrapper.

I was ready to buy a bunch of guard tanks from FW but it wasnt the postage that put me off, it was the crap customer service!

You paid what they told you they were going to charge you? Instead of some rate that you imagined you should pay?

What's the problem, then? The company offers free shipping on large orders, and charges more for smaller orders. They might not have a net profit from shipping, or they might net a small one, as those smaller orders cover the larger, expensive, cray American orders.

Friend of mine did an order fro Weyland Games recently, and it was such a tiny order that he actually checked the Royal Mail shipping on small packages, finding that his package shipping costs should be lower than the minimum £4 that Weyland offers. He contacted Weyland about this and they reduced the shipping cost for him.

I see no reason beyond simple stubborn stupidity why FW couldn't do the same thing.

Valhallan42nd wrote:You paid what they told you they were going to charge you? Instead of some rate that you imagined you should pay?

What's the problem, then? The company offers free shipping on large orders, and charges more for smaller orders. They might not have a net profit from shipping, or they might net a small one, as those smaller orders cover the larger, expensive, cray American orders.

The issue is that a FW CSR stated that they do not profit from shipping and handling fees, when it is clear that they do.

It's a matter of being factually inaccurate with your customers.

Question on this "VAT" that I have been hearing about. Now does british law say they can only charge in country residents this tax, OR does it state all sales they make? I lived in Oregon for a while and when I traveled outside the state even though the law stated when I showed my ID I wasn't to be charged tax people saw different. It didn't reallly matter to me, but 17.5% tax would disuade me in the future from ordering form them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_United_Kingdom#Value_added_tax

As far as I am aware, VAT should only apply to products bought and shipped within the UK, just as if I were to buy a product outside of the UK, technically I am obliged to pay tax to bring it into the country.

Kanluwen wrote:Er, actually they've STOPPED using Royal Mail because of all the strikes. They're only (supposed to, at least) be using Courier services.

That was only during the strikes. Everything I have had since has been RM.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Friend of mine did an order fro Weyland Games recently, and it was such a tiny order that he actually checked the Royal Mail shipping on small packages, finding that his package shipping costs should be lower than the minimum £4 that Weyland offers. He contacted Weyland about this and they reduced the shipping cost for him.

I see no reason beyond simple stubborn stupidity why FW couldn't do the same thing.

Wayland... W A Y L A N D


The RM shipping steps are 20g at those levels.. never did i think a customer from oz would order a single light blister. And i wanted to avoid the effort of adding all the weight steps.




to someone elses point..

Re VAT that someone mentioned..
However VAT is chargeable to all EU nations. Not just the UK

@rich is vat chargable to US residents?

Empchild, no it isnt.

Saldiven wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:You paid what they told you they were going to charge you? Instead of some rate that you imagined you should pay?

What's the problem, then? The company offers free shipping on large orders, and charges more for smaller orders. They might not have a net profit from shipping, or they might net a small one, as those smaller orders cover the larger, expensive, cray American orders.

The issue is that a FW CSR stated that they do not profit from shipping and handling fees, when it is clear that they do.

It's a matter of being factually inaccurate with your customers.

So what? If you don't like it don't ing buy from them? gak you people need to put your big girl panties on and man up a little.

EDIT, meant to say
So what? If you don't like it don't ing buy from them? Gak, you people need to put your big girl panties on and man up a little.
a comma makes a difference

I don't believe I've ever been charged VAT on an order so not sure how other people in the US are paying the VAT plus the 15% shipping per order? Unless the VAT is included in the 15% shipping in which case it is than I guess I'll live with it. I mean, if I can scrounge up 543GBP for a complete Reaver titan I can scrounge up the extra 81 for shipping. I'm sure it doesn't cost FW $135 to ship it to the US but that's a luxury tax I'll live with.

I've only ever been charged 15%. I always convert the amount to US dollars, add 15% and barring a screwup on my part in rounding to the nearest dollar the amount is spot-on.

TheSecretSquig wrote:============================================

Thanks for your e-mail.
Here at Forge World we endeavour to provide a quality service that ensures you receive our products in the most effective way. Our team regularly review the prices we charge for shipping, and these are to cover our costs not make a profit. As you may have noticed, we offer free Express shipping on large orders and currently free standard shipping on all orders over £150 – we anticipate this to be a long-term offer that will benefit many of our customers.
You can also visit us at events such as our forthcoming Open Day here in Nottingham on March 28th, at which you can come and pick up almost anything in our range. The Open Day will also allow you to meet our entire staff including our Studio of writers, artists and sculptors, as well as to play some fantastic games and view work-in-progress models, books and artwork. The Open Day is free to attend and is a great way to save on Shipping costs.
We hope to see you there! If you have any further queries, please don’t hesitate me to contact me.

=============================================

Um... is this a typo or a hidden deal? The website currently says £250.00 or more.

If they were serious about £150.00 or more that makes a huge difference to me personally. I recently placed an order for forgeworld and got hit with the 12% packing simply because I didn't feel like I wanted to save up for a 400$us order. £150 is about 250$us which I could honestly see myself saving up and placing an order that large in order to save the 12% in shipping for which I could get more product.

I think if they had a lower threshold people would place bigger orders as it is more obtainable. Instead of ordering a Big Trakk now and a Megadred 8 months from now I probably would have ordered it all together.

I don;t know if you are going to email this dude back, but ask how does one obtain the free shipping on £150.00 orders?

More on this VAT thing...

Is everyone saying that FW products should in fact be 15% cheaper than they are for US residents?

probably.

Is there a way to 'make this happen' at Forge World then?

Should I phone in the order to make sure it happens?