Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys. I'm helping Nash get ready for broadside bash, and i still need a lot of table time with nids before I can start painting. So we got in a 2k game using a broadside bash mission. it was basically spearhead deployment with table quarters for objectives.

The lists...

swarmlord
2x tyrant guard lash whips
3x hive guard
3x hive guard
2x venomthropes
21x termagants
21x termagants
tervigon with catalyst toxin sacs adrenal glands and crushing claws
tervigon with catalyst toxin sacs adrenal glands and crushing claws
tyrannofex with rupture cannon
tyrannofex with rupture cannon

ghazghkull thraka
big mek with kustom force field and burna
3x meganobs kombi-skorcha, kombi-rokkit
15x lootas
5x lootas
5x lootas
19x boys nob with power klaw bosspole
30x boys nob with power klaw bosspole 3x big shootas
10x gretchin 1x runtherder
1x deffkopta twin-linked rokkits buzzsaw
1x deffkopta twin-linked rokkits buzzsaw
battlewagon kannon 3x rokkits red paint reinforced ram boarding plank
battlewagon kannon 3x rokkits red paint reinforced ram boarding plank
3x killa kans 3x rokkits
3x killa kans 3x rokkits


tyranids won the roll to go first, and deployed like this...

The big flying stands represent T-fexes, and i have one blank 40mm base in there that represents the second venomthrope.

Orks responded by deploying thusly...



TOP OF ONE
I move up and flatten out my line, keeping gants in front of everything, and did a pretty good job folding everything except the MCs intoa 4+ cover. One hive guard unit had some range difficulties due to bad difficult terrain rolls and managed to weapon destroy a kan, the other unit did a bit better and killed one kan. The tyrannofexes were accurate, but could not produce any lasting damage on Ghaz's wagon. I put catalyst on my two hive guard units.

BOTTOM OF ONE
Both wagons moved up 13" to get their rokkits online, the big boy unit moved up but didn't really have anything good to contribute aside form their big shootas. So the kans and the lootas all combined on my hive guard and managed to deal 3 total wounds after cover and feel no pain.




TOP OF TWO
I was testing to see if Nash was stupid, and hung one of my gant units out so that ghaz could charge them. The other moved up quite a bit, in an effort to get some shooting on the boy unit, I moved both tervigons up, to keep the gant engine powered up. After moving up like that with the tervies, both of them needed to make babies to keep themselves screened off. I doubled up on one, and the other didn't double. The swarmlord was tired of being cooped up, and broke from the lines to charge some killa kans, he couldn't quite get to the boy unit. My hive guard and one t-fex were able to move into side armor shots on ghaz's wagon. here comes the first generalship error of the game... I was really worried about Nash's boy unit counter-charging the swarmlord, so i used a catalyst on him, failed the psych test, then used my other catalyst on him. So now I've got two venomthropes between my tervigons and all of those rokkits. I shot at the boys and killed 4-5 off, i shot at ghaz's wagon and got an immobilize off, and I shot at the other kan unit and killed one more. Swamlord charged the other kan unit and killed 2, leaving one left alive... perfect.

BOTTOM OF TWO
nash kept his wagons stationary, as he wound up his haymaker punch. His first shooting came from the boys riding the battlewagon, killing my venomthropes. i went to ground, but failed an atrocious amount of 3+s. I'm sure Nash had the firepower tucked away to finish me even with average rolls. Next one of his deffkoptas, his last kan, both wagons and all lootas went in to my to tervigons and took BOTH of them out. As you could imagine i lost quite a few termagants, and the remaining termagants went from imposing to just useless scoring units. Ghaz decided to get out, since his ride was immobilized, and he just shot up and killed off one of my gant units with nothing else to do. i noticed that gaz was in reach of swarmlord, and that probably saved me from being tabled. swarmlord popped the final kan and was off to fight ghaz.



TOP OF THREE
Swarmlord moved right up behind ghaz's unit, the t-fexes moved up to help out (after ghaz's waaagh of course) and my gants all went backwards as fast as possible heading for cover. most of them were in swarmlords massive 18" synapse... but i had to take one IB test on a big gant unit on my left, and it passed. i shot and killed the last kan with a t-fex, and the hive guard just started pecking at the side armor of ghaz's wagon just to shut down all of those rokkits. Swarmlord got leech essence off but couldn't wound, and he also got paroxysm off. Swarlord did what you'd expect him to do (we were treating him as an independent charcter, not an upgrade character, fyi) he got three wounds on the meganobs. Pop, pop, pop, and my tyrant guard went after ghaz, Nash was going to have to pop waaagh so as not to get run down, so he only took one wound from the tyrant guard. paroxysm wrecked ghaz's attacks, he scored no wounds at I1.

BOTTOM OF THREE
nash moved the troop wagon up in order to claim a quarter, had the grots in the back quarter and the boys in another quarter, everyone ranged up to try and take out as many gants as possible, I had one big unit and 3 small units left. He managed to wipe out a three man unit, which meant I could not win, but could still tie. i had a pretty untouchable unit in the back of my table, and a decent sized gant unit that survived with 6 men threatening another quarter. Swarmlord finally pointed his attacks at the prophet, and rolled four 1s to wound. ghaz's 2++ was still in effect so that wasn't really a big deal. Ghaz was only able to get one wound on a tyrant guard with paroxysm in play.



TOP OF FOUR
Not much for my specialty shooting to work on, so I moved my shooty units up as far as possible, and moved my gants to as safe of a place as possible, took some potshots, and then we were about to go into combat. the game was really about whether or not nash could get 6 gants to run off table or not so we skipped over combat with ghaz and swarmlord (i think we all know who was going to come out of that one alive ) So after my shooting we went right to nash's turn (we could resolve the combats later if it was going to matter)

BOTTOM OF FOUR
nash's boys move up to get their shootas on the 6 man unit, and the lootas that can see and reach them dumped into them too. He was able to kill all 6 so no morale test was needed. In the remaining three turns, it would be impossible for me to win, so we called it...




THOUGHTS

Well, nash's list has been tuned for weeks now. he may not have known how to fight against nids, but I was really up against a hard list. Since I barely know how to fight WITH nids, I think there wasn't really any advantage for either of us.

For once I think i have less to complain about with my list, and more to complain about in regards to my generalship.

First of all... Why the hell did i think i could stand off against Nash's list? somehow i thought that my resiliency would make it possible for my piddly anti-tank speciality shooting to stand up to 17 rokkits, 3 big shootas and 25 lootas.

Swarmlord was a real terror. If I could have connected with his boy unit, I was certainly going to be able to beat it down, I was able to easily handle ghaz's unit, if only I had another swarmlord running around

If we played it again, rather than keep my venomthrope cluster to cover the t-fexes (what was I thinking, nash didnt have any AP2) I would have lined my t-fexes up much more aggressively. My tervigons actually beat kans, and my t-fexes would be able to win as well if supported by ANY other unit. nash's list had superior firepower but inferior close combat capability by a mile, and i should have seen that right off the bat. i would have just given him the bum's rush from the get-go. that might have silenced his rokkits faster, and I might have been safe from them in CCs.

thats not to say the game wasn't close. I was aggressive with swarmlord (even though i almost didn't make that aggressive move) and he was a really serious problem for nash. In the future, I'm going to commit all of my MCs much more aggressively, against just about everyone. My gameplan clearly needs to move away from "my tervigons aren't allowed to die" because against a few different armies, that isn't really possible. The new plan is going to be "Go kill the things that kill tervigons... even using the tervigons to do it".

Which is funny, because my list has the tools to be aggressive like that... the t-fexes can be terrorizing to infantry units and hordes with the large blast and thorax weapon, of course you need to use discretion, I'm not charging 30 man boy units with floating klaws with one t-fex, but if i had just bum-rushed, I would have had a rather large termagant unit accompanying him.

The hive guard would be the unit in the list that wouldn't really help me accomplish my aggressive gameplan... but even they are required, because they might be my best bet to herd and eventually shoot down the flying, fast, stuff that is constantly disengaging.

I really want another venomthrope, and I'd LOVE a tyranid prime. So I want to find 145 points... i am entertaining the idea of cutting two hive guard. But I'd still need 45 points. i don't think i could get away with losing 9 termagants. And I don't want to lose any tyrant guard. the crushing claws are vital to making this new aggressive playstyle funtional.... anyone have any thoughts on what is cuttable?

I really want a rematch with my new aggressive gameplan, and I'm gonna be playing lik that against space marines too. withswarmlord on deck, I'll trade a tervigon for ALL of your assault marines... He really was the missing component of the list. Not sure if I'll win a crushing victory against Nash's list in the rematch, but I would certainly not do much worse.

Thanks for reading...

How are your T-fexes working out for you? They seem a bit expensive for what they can do.

Regwon wrote:How are your T-fexes working out for you? They seem a bit expensive for what they can do.

Well, in about 8 games with them, I have lost one once. As far as points equivalent survivability, they are priced accordingly...

You put the only respectable long range anti-tank gun in the codex on that, and it is already looking pretty reasonable.

What I am just discovering, and have learned that one or two other people around have already learned, is that the model has a potential to be a much more aggressive force in a nid army. 265 for a railgun might be pricey, but 265 for a railgun on turn 1-2, that becomes a large blast/flamer on turns 3-4, and a very reasonable close combat MC in the later game starts to look like a steal. Put it out there, with nearby deathstar support, dare people to charge it while the deathstar lurks nearby, or charge something with the support of a termagant unit.

i still really like the unit, and i bet i'll love it once a perfect a more landslide overload style of gameplay.

Nice battle report.

Do you think the swarmlord is worth it? he is slow and hugely expensive and has no ranged other then psyker abilities so takes an aweful long time to get into combat and is unlikely to make his points back.

I'm testing a Tyrant again but with strangle thorn cannon and prefered enemy with the ws 1 power. This tyrant is sort of mediocre so far just costs so much for what he does It did get a lucky kill on a speeder and kill some long fangs though.

Anti horde is rough. Super gaunts hold up ok vs ork mobs but if they waagh and you get charged things aren't so good even with FNP. I'm thinking maybe run biovores but no points and they bad vs mech till you pop a tank.

I been running t-fexs too and I have the same proxy as you a valkyrie base. The rupture cannon really needed to be twin linked or have more shots, I find they miss a vehicle twice more often then I would like and hardly get any vehicle kills but are a necessary evil and points sink so you don't get shot up by Vendettas or Las cannon Predators. t-fexs usually do a good job of surviving unless they get jaws, after all they the king.

Kirika wrote:Do you think the swarmlord is worth it? he is slow and hugely expensive and has no ranged other then psyker abilities so takes an aweful long time to get into combat and is unlikely to make his points back.

I am more sure about him in this list than any other unit. He hard-counters assault terminators. Not having that in my meta is crazy. It doesn't take him that long to get there. Not having a gun doesn't really hurt because you need to be running with him every turn. In this particular game, Ghaz's unit would have embarrassed a hive tyrant. I score three wounds on his nobs, none of htem cause instant death, he loses no models, I have no invulnerable save. My own counter-charge unit explodes... its not comparable. the only nid unit with an invulnerable save in CC that actually wants to be in CC.

Kirika wrote:I'm testing a Tyrant again but with strangle thorn cannon and prefered enemy with the ws 1 power. This tyrant is sort of mediocre so far just costs so much for what he does It did get a lucky kill on a speeder and kill some long fangs though.

Yeah i already tried the regular tyrant that shoots. Now you aren't running and you are shooting a bad lascannon or a decent large blast... he is too pricey for that. perhaps with wings and the HVC to get more side shots... but he isn't the assault terminator/nob/thunderwolf cavaly answer, so you might as well just take more hordey elements.

Kirika wrote:Anti horde is rough. Super gaunts hold up ok vs ork mobs but if they waagh and you get charged things aren't so good even with FNP. I'm thinking maybe run biovores but no points and they bad vs mech till you pop a tank.

Ahh and this is where I blew it as a general. I had four MCs with large blast templates and two with flamer templates. If I just push hard on those boys right from jumpstreet, and lay out three large blasts on them, then i am outshooting them, then they waaghcharge into counter-charging initiative 4 gants with poison and spore cloud. Or they charge into an MC, almost kill it, then get rules by furious charging termagants.

I was going to start running biovores and 9 hive guard and tervigons and just be organic gunline guy... but the more and more different armies I play against, the more i realize how few armies i can actually outshoot.

Kirika wrote:I been running t-fexs too and I have the same proxy as you a valkyrie base. The rupture cannon really needed to be twin linked or have more shots, I find they miss a vehicle twice more often then I would like and hardly get any vehicle kills but are a necessary evil and points sink so you don't get shot up by Vendettas or Las cannon Predators.

If t-fexes work out as an assault tank i'll keep using them, the turn 1 shots are a good way to silence some incoming fire that you are going to take, and are vital for nid murderers like vendettas and typhoon speeders. I've seen the shots double miss, and double hit, and split, and hit LRCs a bunch but fail to pen, if it turns out that the only thing t-fexes are good for is the rupture cannon, then i probably would just trade them for adrenal tyrgons... but if my hunch is correct and they are a better front line gunbeast, then they are going to be a steal at 265. if they continue to perform well, then i could even see running them with the fleshborer hive or the hellhound shot.

Thanks for the great report. Your detailed analysis of the different units strengths and weaknesses has been very helpful as I redo my nids.

Very nice report, added a lot to the new hivemind tactics.

My thought on that 45pts would be: remove adrenal glands on both tervigon and drop 5 termagants. since the furious charge and counter charge dont work together any more ,and +1I wont make crushing claws any faster. what you lose from that is the impact of charging termagants (which I think most time they will get charged by others) and the +1 Str on a charging Tervigon.

Do you need both tervigons? I'm just wondering if it'd work with 1 tervigon, 1 termagant unit, and maybe just one other, more aggressive troops choice -- stealers? Warriors? Hormagaunts?

Ian Sturrock wrote:Do you need both tervigons? I'm just wondering if it'd work with 1 tervigon, 1 termagant unit, and maybe just one other, more aggressive troops choice -- stealers? Warriors? Hormagaunts?

Could work... I had two before so that i could catalyst both hive guard units... but now it seems like either swarmlord or the tervigon is taking catalyst, so one might be just fine. less collateral damage when he dies too.

brood progenitor does have a way of making opponents freak out though. At least for the next couple of months that rule carries a bit psychological advantage.

Nice report. I do like your list but am wondering if some zoanthroaps world be good here. The idea is to use the blast template to kill off the horde elements at 30inch. Much like space puppies use squads of missiles to take out armor and inf.

Also, this is a nub question, can mc run? You were saying above that in a tyrant you would swap run for shooting, but quite often the shooting can be very effective against list like the one you came up against

Glad you've gotten a bttle report up. Why not try taking the claws off of one tervagon and using it to cover the other one? OR using the tyranofexen to cover both. The Issue I have with Tervagon lists is that then usually turn into don't kill my tervagons. Giving Nid players something else to worry about. I say just take one with claws ( I try to keep mines under 200 points. Both glans and Catalyst). Have you thought about moving your T-fexs forwared with a gant bubble wrap? Venemthropes work take another one. 15 Termagant broods will do the job of sucking up fire, giving cover-saves and bubble wrapping your Tervagon (If you take one). Cut one Tervagon and 6 gants from each gant brood. (340 points if my math is right). use those points for 5 Y.genestealers 155 points. 5 T5 Mutation genestealers that can assault the turn they come in. An alpha with bonesowrds for 90 and the rest on warriors I think would help. Either way you can do a lot with 300+ points.

The problem is you are getting sucked in by the garbage 265pt (maybe one hit if your lucky each turn) capsule cannon.....anyway I have some thoughts on the Tyranofex.

I picture it being like the big shock troop beetle from star ship troopers, not a tank sniper. Its too bad every body saw the 2 shot st 10 cannon and forgot the other guns.

Next time try to arm 1 (yes 1 2 is a point sink) with the electroshock beetles, cluster spines and the main flamer weapon, thats 3 large template weapons per turn while moving. Against orks and other hoard armies that thing will be pretty nasty. Use a tervi to let him fire them all on the run and bam thats a surprising blitz with a rocket proof 2+ save.
Even if thetyranofex doesn't kill much the chaos it will cause and psychological scare should disrupt the enemies battle plan.

thats my 2 cents, and I guarantee it will ultimately be the way people arm these big fellas in competent lists.

I looked forward to reading this batrep when I saw you had posted it today. Nash's ork list looks quite formidable. It seems like your list is starting to come together now and I think the addition of the Swarmlord with Tyrant Guard is a great choice. I would keep this unit as you have noted it's an excellent psychological deterent for your opponents and he is such a beast in close combat plus the 4+ invulnerable save is huge. I'm glad to see you are considering branching out to try some new units. There are a lot of strong units to choose from and I don't think a lot of spam is necessary to be competitive.

G

I agree with Green Blow Fly. The Tyranids have a huge synergy thing going, so they seem to really reward diversity. Something I'll note is that, despite lack of paint-jobs and the 'counts-as', the first picture really looks like what a Tyranid swarm is supposed to. Kudos!

Shep wrote: the crushing claws are vital to making this new aggressive playstyle funtional.... anyone have any thoughts on what is cuttable?

Crushing claws, both of them to be replaced by sything talons. Lots cheaper, makes use of those adrenal glands and importantly bumps up your str to 6 and your I to 2. With FNP you can weather virtually any amount of non-PW attacks and those nasty klaws and P.fists (in things like MANs, Assault termies and the like) you can actually kill off a few before they hit you.

Also, importantly, re-rolls to hit against vehicles when you roll 1's. Yes its less attacks but your also saving points.

Now heres a question; Why do you want a third venomthrope & Warrior Prime?

Great Report Shep! You are moving much quicker then I am in your competitive progression (I just wish I could get more games in).

I agree with you on the overall aggressiveness of the Nidz. Who would have thought that Nidz would be an aggressive army? Trust me, I know the feeling. I am finding having to force myself to be as aggressive as possible, when you are used to armies with a lot of reliable shooting, you almost have to switch your whole priorities.

I still don't think that the Swarmlord is superior to a standard Hive Tyrant, just like I don't believe in the opposite. It all depends on the list. I am finding that Old Adversary as an area effect to be working better for me then the Swarmlord. My problem is that my local competitive Ork player likes putting 20 uniquely equipped Nobz in your face with 5 Power claws in each unit. That's a little more then the Swarmlord can handle. I am finding things like Hormagaunts and Genestealers deploying with the horde behind the Gaunt screen can counter assault with upgrades like Poison, and Old Adversary lending itself to giving multiple units preffered enemy. When you have some where is the range of 60 attacks with re-rolls both to hit and wound, you find the "super units" folding under sheer weight of wounds. My Hive Tyrant only sees combat to finish units off.

I think Crushing Claws on the Tervigons are one of those, great if you have the points, but not necessary.

I could be wrong, my lists are going in different directions then yours, and my meta is different.

I will tell you, I absolutely LOVE the Carnifex with Scything Talons, Bioplasma, and Breainleech Devourers in a Pod. The cool synergy there is that you find that players often "adsorb" the wounds from the Devourers into wounds they autotake from the Plasma blast, which means they are taking that reduced moral test more often, and the Carnifex is still the best tank hunting MC in the codex. But that is for a more drop list then the one you are building.

How about this for your next test list?

Swarmlord = 280
2 Tyrant Guard = 120
2 Hive Guard = 100
2 Hive Guard = 100
18 Hormagaunts w/ Poison = 144
18 Hormagaunts w/ Poison = 144
18 Termagants = 90
18 Termagants = 90
Tervigon w/ Adrenal Glands, Poison, Catalyst = 195
Tervigon w/ Adrenal Glands, Poison, Catalyst = 195
Tyrannofex w/ Rupture Cannon =265
Tyrannofex w/ Rupture Cannon =265

You loose 4 shots from Hive Guard, but your initial screen goes from 42 to 72. I think the Venomthrope is a little unnecessary, when you have FNP Termagaunts giving cover to other bugs and mid-level bugs, and medium bugs giving cover to MCs. But one your Gaunts are assaulted, countering with Poison Hormagaunts that have a pretty fierce reach, higher initiative and more attacks (plus a possible Furious Charge from the Swarmlord), and I think you will be breaking combats in your favor. If you play aggressively. Hormagaunts behind a Gaunt screen and being able to fleet past them for preemptive charge is great.

I could be wrong. There are no bad units in the Tyranid codex, just bad synergies. I will say these tactics did work against an SOB army with AP 1 Exorcists and a round of shooting that involved 7 flamer templates.

I am starting to "Get It" with the codex. I agree with you shep you should try to become more aggressive. With the addition of the swarmlord the list becomes alot more physical. I dont think crushing claws tervigons are going to be enough to fit your new aggressive style.

I am using a similar list, except my strategy is slow moving shooting swarm. The T-fex is a shooty anti-infantry beast, I dont like paying 265 for 2 bs 3 str 10 shots, the players in my area will just swallow that and ignore him and go after my other units, thats what nash did in this report. It fits the strategy but it isnt 265 worth of fiting the strategy.

It seems to me whne speaking about the Tyrannofex people always forget he has a template weapon that wounds on a 2+ and a large blast it can fire 18" away. If you play the Zoans as your only tank busting well good luck against any space marine list with a hood or the spacewolves list that takes two hoods. The cost on the tyrannofex may seem expensive but in all the games I played two of them more than make back their points.

I think nids overall would have an issue with orks, lootas just seem perfect for owning tervigons and things

Overall good report!

This might have been said before but according to the codex you have to pop babies before you move the tervigon.... Would be awesome the other way around first turn assault anyone? Move Tervigon 6" pop babies out 6" move them 6" shoot assault.... Shudder


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mahu wrote:

I could be wrong. There are no bad units in the Tyranid codex, just bad synergies. I will say these tactics did work against an SOB army with AP 1 Exorcists and a round of shooting that involved 7 flamer templates.

The Pyrovore is just plain bad... Let's see... we give it low toughness short range and when it gets popped it blows up and hurts us... I think it was evolved by Hive Fleet Fail.

Thanks for the report. I will have to live vicariously through you until I finish current non-Tyranid army like a good little hobbyist boy.

It's fun reading about a new army and seeing what they can do.

- Blackbone

ill be honost, Raveners have been an all star unit for me, and i love to use lictors and hormogaunts, with toxin sacs, they just mow down lots of things, if you know you'r opponents like to hold things in reserve or try to outflank or even just put sniper units off the side you can give a HT hive cmd which i do and love and outflank 20-30 homogaunts and its just outstanding. Heck, Swarmlord even has the abilite to give one troop the abilitie to outflank, and then reroll if you dun like where it outflanks too!

But Raveners rock still, 5 of them with rending claws makes alot of people nervous, as they can potentially have 25 Attacks on a charge, rending, can pop most vehicles if they get there, have a 6 move, up to 6 run, are fleet and have a 12 inch assualt range. If you wanna be more aggressive these are the unit for you

Thanks for all the discussion guys...

I played two more games this weekend. Both against great testing partners. And I learned a LOT more about nids. I also got to watch Manimal use a tervigon the way they are supposed to be used... and it made me say "oh I get it now".

I'm going to do batreps when i get a chance... but just as an example one tervigon killed 3 5man marine units over 2 turns, even with a critical amount of anti-infantry shooting and flamers nearby...

Tervigon never made babies until those babies could issue a charge without ever getting shot at, and the tervie would stay within 6"... Then it was a one-two-three punch... Probably about the best 220 points you can spend. he is a land raider for free gants, and no slouch in CC himself. i have started using him accordingly, and got a VERY convincing win against IG by using him thusly.

Crushing claws are way better than scy-tals. i drop preferred enemy on tervigons on occasion with swarmlord, I don't want 0.5 attacks, I want four times that number of attacks. i still have adrenal glands so i'm still strength 6... I'm not I2, oh well, I'll take 1.5 more attacks and more efficient use of preferred enemy over 20 points and I2 once per combat.

All this talk about t-fexes is funny, because I actually am off of them for the time being. For 15 more points, you can get two trygons with adrenal glands and one mawloc. I ran that against IG and actually beat a dedicated gunline. Once I started using t-fexes as aggressive MCs i started wanting fleet, and thats when they became trygons. The trygon is better than the mawloc, but every once in a while there is a unit out there that the mawloc excels at harassing, like lootas for example its those cases that make the third heavy a mawloc.

The rupture cannon doesn't suck... in that game against IG, nids went first and so IG held vendettas in reserve and outflanked. They spent the first two turns killing all the hive guard and one trygon. When all the MCs hit their lines, they got pretty wrecked... but had they actually had troops in their vendettas, they might have been able to steal a win back or possibly a draw. because once the hive guard died, I didn't have a way to get back behind my lines to kill off those encircling skimmers. If I hard-rushed the gunline with t-fexes, they wouldnt have been as good at killing vehicles in CC, but late game they could start shooting at the vendettas that are on the other side of the table. Now, I think i prefer the 18 wounds with a 3+ save over 12 2+ save wounds. And both of them "work". And since I am learning to play aggressively with nids, I am sticking with the three heavies for the time being.

If anything i learned that vendettas and an astropath are even better than I already thought they were.

One more thing... I am starting to get into devourer gants for my troop choice gants. Take 15-20, scoot up with the rest of the army, shooting at targets of opportunity, stay more than 6" away from tervigons... and eventually be the ones to take the further back objectives. What do you guys think of that?

Thanks for the further updates Shep.

Have you considered trying gargoyles now that you are playing more aggresive? They seem like a good addition to an army running swarmlord and tervigons in aggro mode. Also did you ever try out lictors in place of the more tried and tested elite choices?

Ohh and:

One more thing... I am starting to get into devourer gants for my troop choice gants. Take 15-20, scoot up with the rest of the army, shooting at targets of opportunity, stay more than 6" away from tervigons... and eventually be the ones to take the further back objectives. What do you guys think of that?

I've thought about that also. I dunno if they have the staying power to really cap an objective if all your synpase is beating face up the field. I had considered having a prime babysit them and perhaps putting that whole package in a pod (but only actually getting in the pod should it be neccesary to keep the buggers alive long enough). The whole thing has more staying power, synapse to keep things working how you want and you have the shooting to clear an objective of non-mechd cappers.

winterman wrote:Have you considered trying gargoyles now that you are playing more aggresive? They seem like a good addition to an army running swarmlord and tervigons in aggro mode.

My new list that i'm going to be playing with starts with this non-negotiable core...

swarmlord with 1 guard
3x hive guard
3x hive guard
10x termagants
10x termagants
tervigon with crushing claws, adrenal glands, toxin sacs and catalyst
tervigon with crushing claws, adrenal glands, toxin sacs and catalyst
trygon with adrenal glands
trygon with adrenal glands
mawloc

That leaves me with 230 points to spend. I have already run it where I just dump all of those points into the gants to make give them devourers and to take lots more. I can just about fit two three man warrior units with some upgrades in there. I could run some zoanthropes, I could rune genestealers, and I could run gargoyles. After playing the game against IG, i would like some backfield synapse. Which makes me think of zoans or warriors. But genestealers are tempting since I have swarmlord. Also gargoyles are tempting with swarmlord being able to throw the long range preferred enemy onto them. Its hard to shoot at them when there are so many other priorities, and I am actually kind of curious on about how much of a trygon they'd cover with their wings and tails. Anyone put the new ones in front of our MCs yet?

winterman wrote:Also did you ever try out lictors in place of the more tried and tested elite choices?

Not yet. i don't think i'll run lictors until I have a much more reserve heavy list. However, they are another option for those last 200ish points. I suppose I will probably be deepstriking the heavies in dawn of war, so he could come into play then, and they combo very well with swarmlord.

Based on my tourney results from this weekend, I'm going to get more aggressive too. It's either Tyrannofexes for real tankbusting at range or Trygons and pods to get in their face, and I prefer the latter style. Plus, I have 3 Trygon kits (1 FW, 2 GW) and really don't feel like converting Tyrannofexes.

The Land Raider approach to Tervigons makes a ton of sense. Hadn't really thought of it that way, but I feel like I've been having more success with Tervigons the more patient I've gotten about spawning.

@winterman -- I've mulled over devourer Termagants in a pod, figuring on dropping them with some combination of Zoeys, Trygons, Trygon Primes and/or Dakkafexes. What I've struggled to get my head around is if it's better to drop a mix of targets (big/medium/small) or just stick with MC drops. Which means I really need to test it and not sit around theorizing.

Did you test out upgrading one of the Trygons to a Trygon Prime, Shep? I know they have fair Leadership anyway, but getting that DSing synapse + Shadow In The Warp + an extra 6 shots seems like a pretty good deal for 40 pts.

One question: how do you get trygon or mawloc cover save? I mean if you start on the board without cover they could die fast due to long range weapon, be it rocket or lascannon.

Shep,
Are you going to the Broadside Bash? It would be good to meet some more Dakkaites there. I know a number of guys from the boards are coming and I will be there myself.

Nice report as always, both lists look nasty, although the most recent rendition definitely looks more worrisome as a Guard player. One turn to take out all of those monsters is not enough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I agree with ED209, with such a large model, starting on board will very likely result in at least one dead trygon when facing a dedicated shooting army.

ED209 wrote:One question: how do you get trygon or mawloc cover save? I mean if you start on the board without cover they could die fast due to long range weapon, be it rocket or lascannon.

Reecius wrote:And I agree with ED209, with such a large model, starting on board will very likely result in at least one dead trygon when facing a dedicated shooting army.

I didn't have a cover save. There are far too many hoops to jump through to get a save. I had first turn and 6 hive guard. That forced the guard player to reserve his vendettas. (Vendettas are over 8" long. Even with their tails at the edge of the board, hive guard get a turn one shot. Chimeras with a 25mm back buffer for emergency disembarkations are only 5" long and therefore safe to deploy.) I put catalyst on each of my hive guard units,and then moved forward and ran with everyone. On the bottom of turn 1, the IG player has to choose between shooting the trygons, which will have no impact until turn 3, or to kill off the hive guard, which will be wrecking chimeras next turn. With no missile launchers (it is a guard army after all) and the lascannons safe in reserve... shooting at 3+ armor is only slightly better than shooting at fnp and cover. And since they'll have another full turn to work on trygons, they shot at hive guard. 9 hive guard wounds later, it is turn 2. Now everyone has run up again, no charges to declare, but the remaining two hive guard stun a vehicle. The mawloc missies its chance to stun a vehicle and the turn is passed...

It seems odd at this point, because nothing has really happened to the IG line yet, but they've only really accounted for one unit themselves, which is much lower than their usual output. On their turn 2 they manage to go to work, completely removing one un-cover saved trygon with the help of two of three vendettas arriving. Now vehicles have to move because they are getting charged, and the meltas can't all converge on any other MC (plus the CCS melta carrier was shaken) So the hydras and multi-lasers that can fire combine to remove the last of the hive guard. two wounds were put on the mawloc from meltaguns, and some gants were killed with manticores.

Pretty reasonable shooting output considering the army. But this was the turning point. Top of three charges were declared by the mawloc, a trygon, two freshly born gant units, and two tervigons. 6 vehicles were engaged, and each one was at least crew shaken. the mawloc trygon and both tervigons did permanent damage to their targets. At this point the IG line is almost completely flattened out, so special weapon support is impossible to mass, their third vendetta shows up and the mawloc is killed off, the other vendettas and hydras put work into a devourer gant unit and kill about 75% of it. And thats all they can muster.

When the swarmlord connected with the stationary hydra unit and the trygon was able to reach a stationary troop chimera that seemed out of reach thanks to fleet, and each of the tervigons charged a new target and created new gants that can move and charge, that was it. The vendettas were alive, and likley not going anywhere, but the rest of the gunline was in complete tatters. It was assured that there would be no surviving troops, and the vendettas would have to risk MC charges every time they moved in to block an objective.

Ultimately, with first turn against IG, the trygons werent going to be shot at until turn 2 for reasons I mentioned. Against a missile heavy space marine force they are more likely to be shot at, but you can then just choose to catalyst them. if you've seen the trygon model, and placed things in front of it, you'll see that it is not really feasable to ask for a cover save from just about anything. Also, and even more importantly, not deploying your trygon at exactly the 12" mark and moving him as far forward as you can possibly go every turn is just a bad idea.

Reecius wrote:Shep,
Are you going to the Broadside Bash? It would be good to meet some more Dakkaites there. I know a number of guys from the boards are coming and I will be there myself.

Nice report as always, both lists look nasty, although the most recent rendition definitely looks more worrisome as a Guard player. One turn to take out all of those monsters is not enough.

I'm not going to BB, but I'll be at the slaughter in space... if you make it to that one hit me up.