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Does anyone really notice the lack of Bolters on Berserkers or had a situation where you wished you had them?

If they're the last thing you've got holding an objective, maybe. Overall KB don't even shoot their pistols since they absolutely have to get that charge to be worth a darn.

The bigger thing they lack is melta guns. Unlike a vanilla CSM squad without a pair of melta guns Zerkers can't crack open a transport and charge the squad inside.

A pair or so of Plasma Pistols'll crack Rhinos in a pinch, but nowhere near as reliably.

I've noticed that they lack a transport besides a landraider that they can assault out of

I'm sure in 20 years when they re-do the chaos dex, they will get a crazy flying baby open topped skimmer transport.

Nurglitch wrote:A pair or so of Plasma Pistols'll crack Rhinos in a pinch, but nowhere near as reliably.

Agreed and if I have spare points, I'd probably splurge on a few PP. Its the only time I could really see them being useful and thats only because you can't get anything better.

schadenfreude wrote:The bigger thing they lack is melta guns. Unlike a vanilla CSM squad without a pair of melta guns Zerkers can't crack open a transport and charge the squad inside.

This is a big problem for pure World Eaters.

Nurglitch wrote:A pair or so of Plasma Pistols'll crack Rhinos in a pinch, but nowhere near as reliably.

This is also alot more expensive then 2x meltas.

whitedragon wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:The bigger thing they lack is melta guns. Unlike a vanilla CSM squad without a pair of melta guns Zerkers can't crack open a transport and charge the squad inside.

This is a big problem for pure World Eaters.

Nurglitch wrote:A pair or so of Plasma Pistols'll crack Rhinos in a pinch, but nowhere near as reliably.

This is also alot more expensive then 2x meltas.

I think that CSM with an icon of khorne can be a viable choice for "pure world eaters."

Of course I still have some of the old World Eaters with bolters.

Sneezypanda wrote:I've noticed that they lack a transport besides a landraider that they can assault out of

I'm sure in 20 years when they re-do the chaos dex, they will get a crazy flying baby open topped skimmer transport.

you just 12 inch move and pop smoke then assault on your turn with your move, ive never had a problem before, besides they do have 3+ saves

Chances are pp will not get a rear shot on a Rhino. If on the off chance that zerkers are in the rear arc of a Rhino they are better off assaulting in the hopes of blocking all the exit points.

PP need a 5+ to penetrate a Rhino, and then there is only a 1/3 chance of wrecking or exploding it. That means it takes an average of 9 plasma hits to wreck or explode a Rhino. That means it takes 13.5 plasma shots to crack a Rhino, and a squad of zerkers can only have 3 for 45 points.

Against Land Raiders plasma is beyond useless. The only thing plasmas can do against a land raider is overheat and kill the zerkers shooting them.

Meltas on the other hand will penetrate the front or side of a Rhino on a 4+ on 2 dice which will happen 5/6 times and will wreck/explode a rhino on a 4+ meaning a single melta gun hits will wreck/explode a rhino about 29% of the time. 1 melta gun is more likely to pop a rhino than 3 plasma pistols.

Needing a 7+ to penetrate a Land Raider means they have little more protection against melta guns than a Rhino.

willydstyle wrote:Of course I still have some of the old World Eaters with bolters.

That's awesome! I kitbashed Tactical and Berzerker kits to make those!

Nurglitch wrote:

willydstyle wrote:Of course I still have some of the old World Eaters with bolters.

That's awesome! I kitbashed Tactical and Berzerker kits to make those!

I also painted them red and gold, with green details, as was the "standard" World Eaters paint scheme back then. But I used enamel model-car paints, so they came out super bright and shiny. My friends called them "christmas marines."

agree that the lack of meltas is a huge weakness for these guys. world eaters players have to be really creative.

world eaters do with chain axes what other armies do with bolters

GloryToThe16th:

Or you can use a Heavy Support choice to provide supporting firepower, blowing units out of their transports so that the Berzerkers can assault them.

Using units to support each other isn't creative, it's basic to the game.

willydstyle:

I figured it was red, black, and brass. That was what my Epic World Eaters were painted with back in the day. I found that copper was more brass than brass though, so that's what my modern 28mm ones are painted with.

Red Black and Brass are the standard "khorne" colors, but when I looked at the painted 'eavy metal berzerkers (that I based my scheme on) they had green power cables and other details. They used a very dark green, and I used a bright one

Just say it's martial pride, that's the ticket!

If my bezerkers had bolters i would be delighted, with that extra weapon skill and attack and furious charge, they would be the angriest marines around!

but i gotta agree, if they could get a melta gun that would be heavenly/hellish (take your pick )

Which is why I think that CSM with two melta guns and an Icon of Khorne works just fine for a Khorne-themed (even World Eaters themed) force.

willydstyle wrote:Which is why I think that CSM with two melta guns and an Icon of Khorne works just fine for a Khorne-themed (even World Eaters themed) force.

totally. If they had FC and the extra WS i would be more in love, but i guess the icon is worth it for DS value. Would love to make a completely Khorne marked army one day

willydstyle wrote:Which is why I think that CSM with two melta guns and an Icon of Khorne works just fine for a Khorne-themed (even World Eaters themed) force.

I think the question there becomes, if you're only taking CSMs for their anti-tank, why not go with Terminators or Chosen for more Melta-goodness.

minigun762 wrote:

willydstyle wrote:Which is why I think that CSM with two melta guns and an Icon of Khorne works just fine for a Khorne-themed (even World Eaters themed) force.

I think the question there becomes, if you're only taking CSMs for their anti-tank, why not go with Terminators or Chosen for more Melta-goodness.

I think its more of a take all comers unit, that fits with the WE/Khorne theme. They will beat stuff up, more so with a PW or PF champ, they will shoot away happily at lighter infantry and throw wounds onto MEQ's with bolters, Meltaguns turn MEQ's or TEQ's into slag and wound MC's pretty easily (with extra wounds from the bolters), and will turn Vehicles of all sorts into big puddles of slag.

Also, melta guns on scoring units is more valuable than melta guns on non-scoring units because they give you defense against being tank-shocked off the objective.

That configuration only mitigates the problems with Khorne Berzerkers though, it doesn't solve them.

You trade Fearless, WS, and Furious Charge for better anti-vehicle, the possibility of losing the extra attacks, and Bolters. It can be a very good trade, but you're still stuck with a unit that really needs to be mobile. Anything armoured outside of 12" will require closing the gap, and anything mobile will be able to stand-off and fire (all else equal, etc). You really do benefit from paying for the extra Combi-Melta on the Aspiring Champion and a Heavy Weapon so that the squad can do something while camping on objectives. A Lascanon, Missile Launcher or Autocannon all provide the range to give the squad real flexibility.

Can't say I've ever wanted Bolt Guns. There HAS been times I've wished for an extra two inches (Insert juvenile jokes here).

Seriously though, they're either running their buns off or hitting faces with axes.

Chaos is overpowered enough!

Da BLUE orks wrote:Chaos is overpowered enough!

The funniest part is you aren't being sarcastic.

grrrr.... if chaos had imperial mobility, then we'd rock. as long as we're just scooting 12" forward a turn I'm to the point where I won't even play them competitively. imperials are stronger.

i'm staying in the eye of terror till we get a new codex

So much for your user-name.