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I am in the process of trying to perfect my Mech CSM build. I have been playing numerous games at the 1500 point level and given some thought to how to upscale my army to 1750 and 2000 points. I came up with the following:

HQ Deamon Prince = 155 (Wings MOS, Lash)
HQ Deamon Prince = 155 (Wings, MOS Lash)

Elite (5) Chosen = 155 (Rhino, 2x Meltagun, 2x Flamer) - Both of these I plan on outflanking
Elite (5) Chosen = 155 (Rhino, 2x Meltagun, 2x Flamer)
Elite (4) Terminators = 375 (Dedicated Land Raider, 2x Power Fist, 1x Heavy Flamer, 2x CombiMelta) (220 for Raider, 155 for Termies) - I like terminators and they give me the option to squeeze in another Heavy Support into the list.

Troop (5) Plague Marines = 170 (Rhino, 2xMeltagun)
Troop (5) Plague Marines = 170 (Rhino, 2xMeltagun)
Troop (5) Plague Marines = 170 (Rhino, 2xMeltagun)
Troop (5) CSM = 120 (Rhino, 1xMeltagun) - to hold the home objective

Heavy Support Vindicator= 125
Heavy Support Vindicator= 125
Heavy Support Vindicator= 125

Exactly 2000 points.

The addition of the Land Raider and Terminators was recent, I do not have any experience running them in this list. I do like the idea of having that as a centerpiece to my mechanized force.

How do people feel about this list? Do you see any glaring weaknesses or armies that it would have trouble addressing? How would you react to seeing a Landraider, 3 Vindicators, and 4-6Rhinos and a couple winged monstrous creatures across the table?

I haven't run into any of the hyper-competitive builds in my area but I would like to prepare for them if I can. As it stands Mech is pretty prevalent here and I expect a few people to start running some nasty Tyranid lists. I curious about the new Tyranids in particular as well as how it might do against the IG Leafblower list or a Razorback spam.

If you have all of these models currently you should try this list out and see how it does. I don't think any part of what you have listed is an instant loss situation or anything like that. You know better than anyone on here what you will be coming up against so maybe these choices work best for you.

The biggest weakness mecha has going for it right now is that people expect it and plan for it. Nothing is invincible when you use the correct weapon/unit choices so don't forget that.

Quick rundown of my suggestions:

HQ: Fine I guess, but I dislike double lashing unless someone is really acting cocky. Consider dropping one or both and spreading these points out elsewhere (like beefing up your troop numbers).

Elite: Not bad but seems a bit inefficient. Decide what you want each chosen squad to do (tank-killing, infantry burning, etc) and kit them to do it. You may also consider putting a flamer on the rhino a flamer-only chosen squad. Terms are fine and I like that you didn't spend a whole lot of points on them. People too often make a hugely expensive land raider + term unit. They are simply too big of a target not to shoot at and with the right weapon can make that the fastest 500+ point loss ever.

Troops: I think this is the lists biggest weak spot. Far too few troops in rolling coffins. Expect your rhinos to get popped and expect them to have to footslog. Even with FNP+extra toughness 5 plague marine squads will be decimated quickly. Beef up their numbers if at all possible.

Heavy Support: I would almost definitely drop a vindi (or all of them) for other options. They are too easily taken out of the fight by only having one main weapon. So even when not destroyed they can be made useless. Maybe take some defilers if you must have mech but I would consider taking some havocs with 4x autocannons or oblits.

Thanks for the reply Halsfield.

I am currently doing some playtesting with the Chosen. Normally, I hate to mix weapons, but I set them with 2xFlamer, 2xMelta for a few of reasons.
1) It allows them to credibly threaten both armor and horde
2) I like to try and keep my squads in their Rhinos as long as possible and you can only fire 2 weapons out the top hatch.
3) I like the redundancy as on top of reserve rolls, the Chosen have a 1/3 chance of ending up on the short side I was not hoping for so I want them to be threatening to the broadest range of targets.

What has your experience been with Chosen? Would it be a good idea to just deploy them with the rest of my forces to avoid the uncertainty of Outflanking? If I did that, I would feel much more confident about specializing them but I feel that I would not be taking advantage of the unique option they offer the army.

I am open to the idea of other HS options but do not have as much experience running them. I like the Vindicators as they are mobile, Ok antitank (unreliable but good on a hit), and add to the Armor Saturation of the list for a pretty low cost. I am concerned that in an environment where I start with a minimum of 6 tanks and 2 MC aggressively moving up field that it would be difficult to allow a good lane of fire for the more static HS choices.

Do you feel that I need to bulk up current troop choices or that I should add some new ones altogether? In 1500 the 4 scoring units in this list have preformed well but it is just 20 infantry in 4 light APCs.

Other than dropping a Vindicator, I don't see many other places to conserve points for more troops or a different Heavy Support selection.

FireFall wrote:
I am currently doing some playtesting with the Chosen. Normally, I hate to mix weapons, but I set them with 2xFlamer, 2xMelta for a few of reasons.
1) It allows them to credibly threaten both armor and horde
2) I like to try and keep my squads in their Rhinos as long as possible and you can only fire 2 weapons out the top hatch.
3) I like the redundancy as on top of reserve rolls, the Chosen have a 1/3 chance of ending up on the short side I was not hoping for so I want them to be threatening to the broadest range of targets.

Giving any unit mixed weapons allows them a great deal of versatility, but it almost guarantees you will be up against an enemy that some of the weapons will be subpar against. Specialize your chosen, see if they are being forced into fights they aren't equipped for (ie all flamer chosen running up against tanks, vice versa) or if you are running into tanks with mixed squads more often. I usually find that if I specialize a unit and send them after those units I want to kill, I can do it (or find a suitable secondary target). Your landraider + troop transports should be the main focus in most battles so I think your chosen will have no trouble outflanking and getting the kills you want. As for your #3 reason, an all melta chosen squad is dangerous against anything.

FireFall wrote:Would it be a good idea to just deploy them with the rest of my forces to avoid the uncertainty of Outflanking?

If you did this I would say drop the chosen and get havocs with better weapons for the longer range job and at a lower cost.

FireFall wrote:I am open to the idea of other HS options but do not have as much experience running them. I like the Vindicators as they are mobile, Ok antitank (unreliable but good on a hit), and add to the Armor Saturation of the list for a pretty low cost. I am concerned that in an environment where I start with a minimum of 6 tanks and 2 MC aggressively moving up field that it would be difficult to allow a good lane of fire for the more static HS choices.

Well, like I said consider defilers then. I just fear that vindis are far too easy to get a weapon destroyed and be nothing more than a rolling roadblock for 125pts. Think about oblits deepstriking as another option. I would personally drop at least 1 vindi for one of these other options (and my choice being 4x havocs with ACs to give you very cheap long range killing of anything in the way giving your transports trouble).

FireFall wrote:Do you feel that I need to bulk up current troop choices or that I should add some new ones altogether? In 1500 the 4 scoring units in this list have preformed well but it is just 20 infantry in 4 light APCs.

Other than dropping a Vindicator, I don't see many other places to conserve points for more troops or a different Heavy Support selection.

It is again your call because you know better what you will face. PMs are great at rolling up in a rhino, popping out, tying up units(winning by attrition), and still being able to slog up the middle without dying. If you just want more rhinos and some troops inside to beef up your tank numbers, take regular CSMs with IoCG and meltas. Far cheaper and still get that job done.

If Mech is prevalent then the Lash Princes really aren't going to be terribly useful.

As far as playing against you (I play rather unconventional CSM), the Rhinos are the last things to die. What they carry packs little punch. At 2k points, I can deal with the Landraider and most of the Vindicators by turn 2. Your single Landraider will get tagged by the fast moving Melta platform every time (in this case Bikers, but otherwise Landspeeders). I'm really not concerned with your infantry though. At those squad sizes, they won't out-shoot or out-fight other conventional CSM squads.

The problem is that only specific parts of your list are threats. The Landraider and the Vindicators are your big hitters, and so they'll be the first things to die. I'd lose the Chosen to buff your squads. By making those squads a threat, you add to the target saturation and make it a lot harder for me to pick targets on turn one and two. That way anything that makes it will be a threat. Instead of having to deal with 3 Vindicators and a Landraider in two turns, you add the 3 Rhinos to that list. Now my anti-tank is actually overwhelmed.

Firefall one caution about vindicators: if they get penetrated the only result that doesnt shut the gun down is 4 immobilized. I'd consider possessing them.

looks like a good start. lots of scoring units, lash princes, plenty of meltas. I sincerely believe land raiders are a point sink. any one of your tac squads could nuke it without any problem, so its a fair bet your opponent can do the same to you. I'd op for extra deepstriking terminators w/combi-plasma x10 and icon of tzeentch. just mo.