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hollowmirror wrote:actually Imotech can steal the initiative against orks. It's just that they confound him so he doesn't get a bonus, it's only on the 6+ like normal.

No, Yak's post seemed rather clear about not getting a chance at all, when playing against Orks.

unless playing against Orks (in which case you can't even attempt to seize the Initiative).

If you can't even attempt, it means you don't roll for it at all.

Trozen wrote:I am wanting to know what the Harbinger of Eternity Crypteks get.

I started looking at my necron bits and I am missing half my rods. I hope I can find a good substitute, that will work with the new models as well.

Trozen, try looking at EMA.

http://www.ema-models.co.uk/index.php/acrylic-plastic-shapes/round-rods-fluorescent/acrylic-rod-2-4mm-fluorescent-green.html

or Hobbys

http://hobby.uk.com/dia-2-5mm-green.html

You can also get these in blue, red, or yellow.

Although these are British companies, there must be equivalents where you live.

I am currently turning my Necrons from green rods to blue, and will post a few pics when they are done - I'm still waiting for the rods to arrive, only just having ordered them.

Hope you can find a way to complete your army's rods, PM me if you are having trouble.

Thanks Yak for that info on Imotekh

So it's not explained how he summons storms? There must be a reason, logically speaking I like the fact that he has the 'cron form of brain damage - for me it's the need for glory and his ultimate goal, which is pointless and illogical. I like the idea of the Nanoscarabs (how does he implant them?) but I can see them being relatively pointless unless you can position yourself so the Flayed Ones won't be cut down by gunfire in the following turn. Looking forward to getting my mitts on the Codex, I'm just undecided on the background.

It's not even limited to "well, Flayed Ones are bad" but moreso the needlessly random nature of the ability--which seems to be a recurring theme, some of these Necron abilities look better at first glance than they do in the end. Lots of them seem to have fine print attached that limit them pretty extremely.

You're basically placing a Locator Beacon on a random enemy unit. And the enemy knows about it. And the Flayed Ones will come in at random, but not until at least Turn 2. So even if it was in a useful spot and Flayed Ones are a useful choice, the enemy can just put that unit into a less-useful spot. Say surrounded by guns and nowhere near cover. Or, you might kill that unit before the Flayed Ones come in. Etc etc etc. Limitations placed on top of limitations of something that wasn't that powerful to begin with--Flayed Ones arriving without scatter.

Obviously Stormlord is useful even without it, so it's probably best just not taking that particular ability into account.

If it wasn't random that bloodscarab ability would be quite tasty. But it is random, so no.

Sasori wrote:

hollowmirror wrote:actually Imotech can steal the initiative against orks. It's just that they confound him so he doesn't get a bonus, it's only on the 6+ like normal.

No, Yak's post seemed rather clear about not getting a chance at all, when playing against Orks.

unless playing against Orks (in which case you can't even attempt to seize the Initiative).

If you can't even attempt, it means you don't roll for it at all.

Ah, You are correct. I was going off what I'd read on page one. Didn't realize the new explanation elaborated a bit more on that.

DJ3 wrote:It's not even limited to "well, Flayed Ones are bad" but moreso the needlessly random nature of the ability--which seems to be a recurring theme, some of these Necron abilities look better at first glance than they do in the end. Lots of them seem to have fine print attached that limit them pretty extremely.

You're basically placing a Locator Beacon on a random enemy unit. And the enemy knows about it. And the Flayed Ones will come in at random, but not until at least Turn 2. So even if it was in a useful spot and Flayed Ones are a useful choice, the enemy can just put that unit into a less-useful spot. Say surrounded by guns and nowhere near cover. Or, you might kill that unit before the Flayed Ones come in. Etc etc etc. Limitations placed on top of limitations of something that wasn't that powerful to begin with--Flayed Ones arriving without scatter.

Obviously Stormlord is useful even without it, so it's probably best just not taking that particular ability into account.

Who ever said your enemy had to know about it?

Youre not thinking this through, re the no scatter flayed ones

If the opponent is altering their battle plans because they know this unit is vulnerable to flayed ones, then you already have an advantage over them. The random nature of reserves meaning your opponent has to keep protecting their unit, every time you dont come down.

Stormlord seems well worth 200+ points, even without a power weapon. Ditto wraiths.

yakface wrote:The Night Scythe and Ghost Ark are much more expensive points-wise than I think any Necron player would hope for, but they're not 150 points. They are much more in the range of an Eldar Wave Serpent (after its taken its weapon upgrades).

Not 150 points, but still around 100-130 points. While being inferior to the Wave Serpent in pretty much every way.

Indeed more expensive than I would hope for. On one hand I'm glad that Necrons won't be turning into a transport army, but nobody likes an overcosted unit in his codex either

I guess it's a 6th edition thing?

We gotta look at the transport thing as being ahead of the curve in terms of any paradigm shifts 6th ed will bring. I think it's a pretty safe bet that transports, and vehicles in general, will be slightly reduced in their durability, maybe not back to what 4th ed had, but maybe a halfway point between the two.

yak i would like to say a big thank you for the info you have given us.

also 2 quick questions

what does the terresect labryinth do?

and is the gauntlet of fire a power weapon or not?

thank you for your time

GrumpyJester wrote:

yakface wrote:The Night Scythe and Ghost Ark are much more expensive points-wise than I think any Necron player would hope for, but they're not 150 points. They are much more in the range of an Eldar Wave Serpent (after its taken its weapon upgrades).

Not 150 points, but still around 100-130 points. While being inferior to the Wave Serpent in pretty much every way.

Indeed more expensive than I would hope for. On one hand I'm glad that Necrons won't be turning into a transport army, but nobody likes an overcosted unit in his codex either

I guess it's a 6th edition thing?

Some of the Warseer rumors seem to indicate this. Since the Night Scythe is a "Flier" they may get their own set of rules, next edition. I'm not going to hold out for that, of course.

I added the stormlord's new information to the summary in a separate quote, as otherwise it would compromise the army list.
I also added the few new US-prices, the known Finecast rereleases and the info on the two novels featuring the new Necron background.

Who else is now counting down the time even more finitely now that GW have confirmed the release? Im marking them off a bloody calendar at the moment!

I've got exams directly after release, so I'm gonna buy up a tonne of these and put them away, so I can build and paint them once my exams are over

Dr. Delorean wrote:I've got exams directly after release, so I'm gonna buy up a tonne of these and put them away, so I can build and paint them once my exams are over

So you are more like Bachelor Delorean right now

Naaaah, I have a degree! I just lost it...in a volcano

Yakface, is there anything like a Null Spear available for the Necron Lords? In the book Hammer & Anvil it is mentioned as a weapon the Necron Lord could take. There was also a wrist mounted Tachyon Arrow Launcher, anything like that?

From what has been posted it's something like a hunter killer missile but the one in the book was a personal ranged weapon for the lord.

Nice to see the KP rule I advocate for Lictors appearing in the game, albeit for Immy! Fingers crossed this idea gets exported to Feeder Tendrils for the next Tyranid dex...

ive got the white dwarf it looks so awesome


Automatically Appended Next Post:
immortals and deathmarks from 1 set, 15 guns in there
lychguard and preatorians from 1 set
4 cf hq's
flayed ones are a finecast box

So how are we going to kill tanks? Gauss is the same as the old book and to me that is not so hot as the only one model in the game is T8 as of the 5th and we all know how well glancing a target down works.

The Doomsday ark is cool but seems super fragile so I'm guessing one or two shots before it is killed. Any info on how the shields work vs the lance rule or will that need to be a FAQ answer?

Immortals seem to be a anti troop weapon with the tesla carbine and use warriors if you want gauss as it will be cheaper.

I know the scaribs look great but T3 swarms and only 10 in a unit means you will need two units just to get across the table. My local meta has huge amount of high rate of fire STR6,7,8 shooting atm and I'm sure they will be something people will focus on.

I'm currently building my FW tomb stalker to stand in for the scorp walker in hopes it will be useful.

Can we get a full run down of weapons at some point? This is what I have gotten from everything I have read so far. (focus is on range support and I know I'm leaving out a few but most of those are short range.)
Warriors-
Gauss rifle 24" STR4 AP5 Rapid

Immortals-
Gauss Blaster 24" STR 5 AP4 Rapid
Carbine 24" STR 5 AP- Assault

Destroyers-
36" STR6 AP3 Heavy 2

Heavy Destroyers-
no info

Support Barge-
Destructor 24" STR7 AP- Assault 4

Doomsday Ark-
72" STR9 AP1 Large Blast

Monolith - Not including in my thoughts currently as the rumors make me want to put the three I own into storage. Still super close range and really depends on how the shield works vs. lance. (Monolith vs. Doomsdat Ark the extra range wins atm)

Fighter - I see how bad they are currently in DE armies so this might be great in 6th ... maybe(die to fast for the cost)

Scorpion -
Heat ray melta blast thing (marking a target for twin linked is cool)

Can we get the rest of the weapons filled in and who they go with? Who else can use a heat rays? Heavy destroyer says? pew? pew pew? or Big PEW!

I'm just getting a little worried as this is a totally different animal then what Necron players have been playing. Also I'm really hoping to break the trend of "You need to play Imperium(all 5th Ed but SoB) because 5th ed xenos have gotten the short bus or smacked down in FAQs. IMO

(Yes I know I left out units and a few weapons but I will looking at a ranged way to kill tanks overall and still stuck in the mind set of the current codex.)

Balor,

Yak had a detailed page about Anti-tank.

Heavy Destroyer guns are STR 9 AP2 Assault 1.

The only stats for weapons we are missing right now are the particle weapons, and the Tesla Cannon.

Sasori wrote:Balor,

Yak had a detailed page about Anti-tank.

Heavy Destroyer guns are STR 9 AP2 Assault 1.

The only stats for weapons we are missing right now are the particle weapons, and the Tesla Cannon.

Hey thanks Sasori! I will start digging for that page.

So no other heat rays beside the scorpion?

EDIT: I now know where my calculations are off, and I have been corrected in following posts.

At the risk of being blasted for Mathhammer when the book isn't out, I've been running numbers on the weapons for the Immortals. I haven't found a situation where the Gauss Blaster is better than the Tesla Carbine. In fact, most of the time the Tesla Carbine will be twice as effective as the Gauss Blaster (even in the rapid fire area!)

While I'm not to worried about taking out tanks, I can see that we'll struggle against a Tau or IG gun line.
The other place that I thing we'll struggle is against models with an invulnerable save.

Anpu-adom wrote:At the risk of being blasted for Mathhammer when the book isn't out, I've been running numbers on the weapons for the Immortals. I haven't found a situation where the Gauss Blaster is better than the Tesla Carbine. In fact, most of the time the Tesla Carbine will be twice as effective as the Gauss Blaster (even in the rapid fire area!)

While I'm not to worried about taking out tanks, I can see that we'll struggle against a Tau or IG gun line.
The other place that I thing we'll struggle is against models with an invulnerable save.

1) We're still not 100% on the Tesla rule, so yeah, this is pointless.

2) This is bad mathhammering. They're all S5 shots, and in rapidfire the Blaster has twice the amount of shots. Bonus hits on a six do not account for this, and to say that the Tesla Carbine is "twice as effective" as the blaster is an egregious corruption of basic discrete probability.

3) Are you accounting for enemy armor? Blasters will take out literally twice as many FWs/NWs/etc than the carbines.

I mean, let's assume that you do get 3 hits per "6" rolled.

10 shots:

Carbine:
10 * 1/2 = 5 normal hits (3,4, or 5)
10 * (3 * 1/6) = 5 Tesla hits.

Average of 10 hits, ~7 wounds on T4 ~8 wounds on T3, but it's AP- and doesnt change for range. Can't glance vehicles.

Blaster:
Long range (stationary under current rules)
10 *2/3 = ~7 hits
~4 wounds against T4, ~6 wounds against T3. AP4 counts for a lot, as does autoglance.
Double that in rapidfire range.

So it does seems like the carbine will be pretty good, and if your enemy has a lot of cover it will be the superior weapon in most cases. Especially considering you can fire at full range while moving. But it's nowhere close to "twice as effective".

EDIT: Unless you're always assuming that you'll have one extra round of shooting with the carbines due to range, but I probably wouldn't assume that. If I were embarking these guys in a Night Scythe I would probably rather dump them off in RF range.

My feelings on the carbines really depends on the cost. I would love them if they are a free swap for the fact they are assault weapons.

Marshal_Hadrial wrote:Perhaps the expensive transports is something we will see more of in 6th? To discourage completely mechanizing every single unit, and Necrons are just the start of that? I believe some rumours and people have said a lot of things in this codex that seem ridiculous or don't make sense will make much more in the context of 6th when it is released. So perhaps that is why? Just my thoughts.

If those 6th edition rumors are accurate, people won't use their transports in the same way anymore. You'll need your units disembarked and holding objectives ASAP. Personally I'd be very wary of building an MSU, flying circus Necron army between now and next summer.

Once again, I have been corrected. Thanks, folks.

Ostrakon wrote:

Anpu-adom wrote:At the risk of being blasted for Mathhammer when the book isn't out, I've been running numbers on the weapons for the Immortals. I haven't found a situation where the Gauss Blaster is better than the Tesla Carbine. In fact, most of the time the Tesla Carbine will be twice as effective as the Gauss Blaster (even in the rapid fire area!)

While I'm not to worried about taking out tanks, I can see that we'll struggle against a Tau or IG gun line.
The other place that I thing we'll struggle is against models with an invulnerable save.

1) We're still not 100% on the Tesla rule, so yeah, this is pointless.

2) This is bad mathhammering. They're all S5 shots, and in rapidfire the Blaster has twice the amount of shots. Bonus hits on a six do not account for this, and to say that the Tesla Carbine is "twice as effective" as the blaster is an egregious corruption of basic discrete probability.

3) Are you accounting for enemy armor? Blasters will take out literally twice as many FWs/NWs/etc than the carbines.

I mean, let's assume that you do get 3 hits per "6" rolled.

10 shots:

Carbine:
10 * 1/2 = 5 normal hits (3,4, or 5)
10 * (3 * 1/6) = 5 Tesla hits.

Average of 10 hits, ~7 wounds on T4 ~8 wounds on T3, but it's AP- and doesnt change for range. Can't glance vehicles.

Blaster:
Long range (stationary under current rules)
10 *2/3 = ~7 hits
~4 wounds against T4, ~6 wounds against T3. AP4 counts for a lot, as does autoglance.
Double that in rapidfire range.

So it does seems like the carbine will be pretty good, and if your enemy has a lot of cover it will be the superior weapon in most cases. Especially considering you can fire at full range while moving. But it's nowhere close to "twice as effective".

EDIT: Unless you're always assuming that you'll have one extra round of shooting with the carbines due to range, but I probably wouldn't assume that. If I were embarking these guys in a Night Scythe I would probably rather dump them off in RF range.

Ok, so I exaggerated a bit.

I did take into account target armor, and ran the simulation on Tac Marines, Standard Terminators, Ork Boyz, and IG. According to Yakface, the Tesla carbine is Assault 2, rather than just Assault. Getting two shots every time you fire is better than rapid fire. (I am counting 3 hits when you get a 6 to hit).

I didn't look into attacking vehicles.

I don't have my spreadsheet in front of me (it's at home), but I looked at expected kills on Marines, Ork Boyz, and IG (the results on Terminators was laughable!), on each the Tesla Carbine resulted in more expected kills in a single round of firing than the Blaster (in either single fire or rapid fire range). Granted, the size of the effect is reduced the more armor your target has.

I agree that cost will be a deciding factor. Will it be a free swap? Will it be 5 extra points per model? Will it be 10?
I'm guessing that it would probably be worth it at 5 points/model, and definitely worth a free swap.

quick note, according to the White Dwarf the ghost ark comes with 10 'battle damaged' necron warriors. Might be cool if we could use them to make deathmarks with the stuff left over from the deathmarks/immortals box

Ok, so I exaggerated a bit.

I did take into account target armor, and ran the simulation on Tac Marines, Standard Terminators, Ork Boyz, and IG. According to Yakface, the Tesla carbine is Assault 2, rather than just Assault. Getting two shots every time you fire is better than rapid fire. (I am counting 3 hits when you get a 6 to hit).

I didn't look into attacking vehicles.

I don't have my spreadsheet in front of me (it's at home), but I looked at expected kills on Marines, Ork Boyz, and IG (the results on Terminators was laughable!), on each the Tesla Carbine resulted in more expected kills in a single round of firing than the Blaster (in either single fire or rapid fire range). Granted, the size of the effect is reduced the more armor your target has.

I agree that cost will be a deciding factor. Will it be a free swap? Will it be 5 extra points per model? Will it be 10?
I'm guessing that it would probably be worth it at 5 points/model, and definitely worth a free swap.

Where did he say it was assault 2? the last I heard was from his quote on the first page

Tesla Carbines (24" S5 Assault1, 'Tesla'