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Is worth it. I have had my Khorne Lord kill not only a termi squad with a chap, but move to taking out an SM assualt squad and a tactical squad one after another thanks to a large amount of attack. The dreaded one, my ruin an assault plan, but doesn't doom him. Look at the large blast shock attack gun (orks) How often do you see ones? Throw it with a squad of zerkers and its a deadly CC force.

Ayup.

And?

I think the Deathscreamer is better. You get as many attacks (1D6 shots plus 3+1D6 attacks, +1 if riding a Disc of Tzeentch) and a 4+ save to boot when things go awry.

Obviously, the best choice of all five is the Blissgiver, but that's for another debate...

The odds you'll roll a one are low, but they exist. Personally, I'd say giving him dual-lightning claws makes for a more reliable punch.

Odds that you roll a 1 are really high for such a crippling effect (33%). I've done the math and over the course of a game dual lightning claws will perform better against any opponent.

That just makes Lightening Claws more reliable. Lightening Claws will never wipe out entire squads on their own with 17 attacks.

Isn't it ironic I'm advocating the boring stuff? Still, you'll hit yourself in the face 11 times for every single 17 attack combo you pull off. If you want someone to utterly devour, not just squads, but literally anything, grab Kharne. TEQs, Hordes, Walkers, MCs, Landraiders, Titans, he doesn't care.

Advocating? I'm just pointing out that it's a live option. One that happens to be inferior to the Deathscreamer, but still an option if you're that way inclined.

IMO, the Bloodfeeder is high risk for medium returns.
Though alot of attacks, being stuck at Str 4 is sucky, while the Juggy mount is not a solution.

It's a 'fun' unit. I've used one with my Crap Legion and he's been pretty average, nothing really to write home about.

Your lord has 3 wounds. The bloodfeeder can take out a whole squad, or it can rob you early of your HQ. You should weigh whether the chance(don't forget you can get a very low amount of attacks just as commonly as high) to destroy a ~10man squad(average squad size) all at once is worth a high risk of losing your ~170pt lord early. I prefer the slaanesh weapon personally (great way to drop any tough multi-wound unit on the cheap) when I don't care about staying fluffy with my nurgle-heavy purge army.

/shrug.
The Nurgle weapon, though more expensive with respect to mark costs, is pretty economical.
Same deamon weapon, but 2 effects that come with poison.

IMO the Blissgiver is pretty meh, BUT, it gets a new lease on life with the new Tyranids coming it.
It makes it more viable when GW stops handing out Eternal Warrior for everything that is worth instant killing...

Oh... and fluff is what you want it to be !

Sanctjud wrote:
The Nurgle weapon, though more expensive with respect to mark costs, is pretty economical.
Same deamon weapon, but 2 effects that come with poison.

Which is what I take usually in the nurgle heavy infantry army(when I take a lord that is, I usually run a sorc). In a tournament setting where I was just going for competition over all else I would probably take the blissgiver to handle any tougher MCs/multi-wound opponents that seem to be becoming more prevalent with each new codex.

Sanctjud wrote:Oh... and fluff is what you want it to be !

Exactly, it is a personal choice, and my personal choice is to keep my nurgle army with nurgle weapons, marks, and units. =p

I could just say the blissgiver is a nurgle weapon with a different ability than the poisoned one, but I don't like to bend fluff like that. Especially when the nurgle choices are already pretty solid (the one exception being the nurgle's rot power being a bit subpar compared to the others).

Bloodfeeders make the mathammer gurus of dakka cry. Ridiculous chance of doing more harm to yourself than your opponent. I have used him several times and when he does work he works great but only against T3 or 4 models you get above that and you might as well just throw yourself in front of a LR. One other thing never leave him out in the open. I playes a guy who did this and forgot about my las pred. and he was poofed on turn 1.

Sanctjud wrote:IMO, the Bloodfeeder is high risk for medium returns.
Though alot of attacks, being stuck at Str 4 is sucky, while the Juggy mount is not a solution.

It's a 'fun' unit. I've used one with my Crap Legion and he's been pretty average, nothing really to write home about.

He is not made to fight unique hero slaughtering, he is made for excellent troop rending, id use it with enemys with 3+. The risk is worthy and any failure a zerker squad could make up the wounds.

Halsfield:

Nurgle's Rot sub-par? You need to play more hordes.

No Bloodfeeder. To much payout, too little return.

And I agree with Nurglitch: Nurgle's Rot is great anti-horde with a Nurgle Princes (1 WT, 1 Rot)

@Blood4Khorne:
"Excellent" is subjective, it's far from reliable...which could make most NOT use the adjective "excellent" to describe it.

The average damage is 4 MEQs on the charge.
You pay less points and get double claws instead to get a more reliable HQ at a similar damage output.

The blood feeder is cool yes but it is really random and ive seen a guy kill his own 200pt lord on the first assualt with it. in my oppinion its too risky but its up to your style of game play

Sanctjud wrote:@Blood4Khorne:
"Excellent" is subjective, it's far from reliable...which could make most NOT use the adjective "excellent" to describe it.

The average damage is 4 MEQs on the charge.
You pay less points and get double claws instead to get a more reliable HQ at a similar damage output.

When I roll my Bloodfeeder is at least 7 marines slain, my least i have gotten was 3 so far, and I use him often. Then again it is just the rolls.

Yea...so we talk about the more objective: average.
Else, we have already gone over the:
As much as he wrecks house he can wreck his own ass. Which averages out to the....(oh snap)... Average!

Blood4Khorne wrote:

Sanctjud wrote:@Blood4Khorne:
"Excellent" is subjective, it's far from reliable...which could make most NOT use the adjective "excellent" to describe it.

The average damage is 4 MEQs on the charge.
You pay less points and get double claws instead to get a more reliable HQ at a similar damage output.

When I roll my Bloodfeeder is at least 7 marines slain, my least i have gotten was 3 so far, and I use him often. Then again it is just the rolls.

So you're saying that if I only ever use loaded dice, and I use anecdotal evidence based on my loaded-dice use, then that is pertinent to a tactics discussion?

As far as reliability goes, the best deamon weapons are the Undivided and Plaguereaper.

-Undivided is the cheapest of the lot and unlike most of the other daemon weapons, increases your wounding probablility. Also it gives you the ability to do a vague impression of threatening a vehicle.

-Plaguereaper lets you wound things you normally couldn't or would have a hard time with, and improves your wounding ability against vanilla marines.

With both of these options you get an expanded joe popping ability in combat and still have an ability to engage tougher targets like MCs without praying for 6's. On top of that, neither increases your chaos lord's ability to commit suicide.

-Blissgiver is really situational. 40K isn't exactly peppered with multi-wound models and most armies will be packing at most 2 (1 of which may very well be immune to ID). Against the mid-size nids it fairs well, but agains the bigger bugs you have to cross your figners and pray to god you can roll a 6. Against the majority of armies, it's just going to be a S4 power weapon that occaisionally eats it's owners face.

-Bloodfeeder is high risk, mediocre rewards. Assuming you get the max of 17 attacks, your average kills are...drumroll please...6. That's assuming all of the stars align. With more average rolls, you're only looking at 4. Very unimpressive for 1/3 chance of doing nothing and less impressive when you consider the average for a pair of LCs on the charge is only 1 wound less and will never harm your character.

-Deathscreamer is just the king of fail. It gives you the unique opportunity to wound yourself twice in the same turn, Score! It's almost exactly like the bloodfeeder from a statistical perspective except that half the time your target will get cover saves and the afforementioned unique ability to kill yourself at record speeds all for a ridiculously mediocre ranged attack and a glorified power weapon.

I prefer the Plaguereaper too. Easy wounds on tough units, easier wounds on most infantry is just too solid.

And it's Nurgle...and Nurgle is bestestists!!

Nurglitch wrote:Halsfield:

Nurgle's Rot sub-par? You need to play more hordes.

OMG! Nurgle's rot is good against hordes?!? Please tell me more oh great and wise master of the chaos codex. -_-

Maybe if you would read what I wrote instead of just picking out certain words you would see what I was really saying:

Halsfield wrote:Especially when the nurgle choices are already pretty solid (the one exception being the nurgle's rot power being a bit subpar compared to the others).

Notice how that is different from me saying "Nurgle's rot is a sub-par psyker power, and anyone taking it is a ninny,"? What I did say is that nurgle's rot is a BIT sub-par when compared to the other powers (and other nurgle wargear/unit options). Being slightly less good than amazing powers =/= bad. Understand? In other words 10 - 1 = 9 , not 0.

If I decide I need my psykers to have anti-horde abilities nurgle's rot is definitely at the top of the list. However, when I don't know what I'm up against it just isn't the smart choice. I would much rather have warptime, winds of chaos, or lash of submission as a general psyker power that can be useful in many different situations against many different opponents. I also think enemies that are going to die from a non-ap str 3 hit probably don't need me to waste my psyker power to kill and are better off dealt with by a flamer or simple assault from some cheap CSMs.

Nice analysis there, spaz. I especially like the increased font size.

Nurglitch wrote:Nice analysis there, spaz. I especially like the increased font size.

I did it so you could read it this time.

I havent seen anybody mention the fact that a deamon weapon also happens to be a power weapon! That means for the bloodfeeder potentially 17 Insta-Kills against MEQs!

No, no it doesn't. Power weapons ignore armour saves, but do not cause Instant Death unless they are twice the target's Toughness or they have some special rule to the effect like the Blissgiver.

And 1/3 of the time, potentially one wound on himself!