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In a speed Freaks list, what do you guys think of a squadron or two of Rokkit buggies... I have always found them useful for their points, provided you can provided numerous threats that greatly overshadow it such as 3 trukks of Meganobz, 3 Battlewagons full of boyz, Ghazghkull and a PK mek.

Things That they can do...

Provide a mobile threat that can hunt MEQS that occupy objectives. (AP 3)

Provide a mobile threat that can deal wounds to TMC. (Wound on a 2+)

Provide a mobile threat that can hunt transports and Light Vehicles. (S8)

Provide a mobile screen to protect the Wagons and Trukks from assaults. (1" rule unless you are assaulting it)

Provide a mobile movement screen that deny enemies passage to an objective. (Again,1" rule unless you are assaulting it but by then you cannot pass through it..)

I define mobile as a unit that can circumnavigate problems that occur with LOS and cover while moving within a moment's notice to take advantage of LOS and being obscured from the KFF. (remember 6" measured from the hull of the Battlewagon.)

105 points for 3 S8 shots that 5/9 of them will hit (so about 1.667 for each squadron) after moving 12" is quite comparable to other light tanks. (Also note that a Single Lascannon cannot destroy 3 buggies... but a railgun using a template can...)

I've advocated for them a lot. I have three units of rokkit buggies and usually take 2 or more in a mechanized convoy list for the reasons you mentioned (more or less). They don't always outperform the deffkopta w/ buzzsaw, but for 35 points/vehicle, they are excellent support units. Given they move 12" and can fire, they are perfect fire support for battlewagon convoys.

I'm fond of neither deffkoptas nor warbuggies. 90 or 70 points (for two) to average a single (1.1) strength 8 hit while being fragile just doesn't excite me. 5 lootas are 75 points and average 3.3 strength 7 hits, 1 less strength but 3 times the hits for the points and it's a lot harder to kill 5 lootas in cover than 2 deffkoptas or warbuggies that are up close to your opponent and in range of short ranged small arms fire and assault.

But if you're comparing deffkoptas and warbuggies, the buggies are nice for being immune to being locked in assault and being cheaper whereas the koptas can jump over your own transports etc. to get shots off.

Still, I look at 3 rokkit buggies' chance of destroying AV 12 as being 18.3% and am not impressed.

Warbuggies are basically T7 compared to the T5 of the Deffkopta. The Koptas are faster, but more expensive. Personally, I like the Buggies, especially in a list that presents all armored targets. Small arms at range aren't really enough to kill them, so they're free to skirt around at maximum range and hunt tanks if you have bigger tanks to occupy your opponent's attention. They're a great counter-part to Killa-kans.

How do you figure A10 = T7?

Koptas have 2 wounds. They're faster (24" turbo, over 18" fast non-skimmer), they have scout, so can get closer sooner, or outflank as needed. They can tie up a squad in combat if that's what's called for, and can take a buzzsaw, making them somewhat decent at attacking both vehicles and units. I don't think there's anything that a buggy does better than a kopta, and they certainly don't have the flexibility.

A death kopta will never, ever be able to deny movement to a tank.

Buggies can.

That makes them awesome.

willydstyle wrote:A death kopta will never, ever be able to deny movement to a tank.

Buggies can.

That makes them awesome.

Agreed....but on the other hand, buggies will never, ever be able to pop a tank in hand-to-hand, either.

Can a squad of deffkoptas provide cover for battlewagons? I know that warbuggies can't, though perhaps they may be able to conceal trukks.

Deffkoptas will never be large enough to provide 50% LOS coverage for battlewagons. Buggies won't either unless converted to be extra large. Both can deny infantry access to battlewagons if placed correctly, so that can help protect against melta bombs, for example. The fact is that both have their roles which means they are relatively balanced with each other.

Redbeard wrote:How do you figure A10 = T7?

Well, because S7 does damage on a 4+, and S4 can still technically damage it (meaning it can't be T8). If it were a Monsterous Creature, it'd be T7 with roughly 3+, 5++.

Its cheap, fast, accurate (for Orks anyway), and relatively durable. The Deffkopta is much faster, as killy, but also more expensive, susceptible to close combat, and is unable to block off terrain. A Buzzsaw doesn't do nearly enough to justify its point cost: 3 S7 hits against a vehicle that has most likely been moving is ineffective at best, suicidal at worst. Going into close combat against infantry will often lose you the squad (3 Orks are not scary), and Hit and Run is largely irrelevant at I2 (I just thought I'd throw that in there somewhere).

Agreed with Skarboy about balance between units.

Warbuggies do what Lootas cannot, skirt quickly around LOS issues and unload a rokkit payload in the hopes of penetrating some well deserving side armor.

As a practical application, buggies are great for distracting opponents for 1-3 turns by directing fire at units that would otherwise be targeted further down field. An opponent who ignores the buggy is asking for trouble. 18 chances split into 6 between 3 different targets indicates a modest chance for success in damaging or destroy moderately armored vehicles.