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I had a disagreement with one of my opponents this weekend over slow and porposeful.

Under the USR slow and purposeful it says that the unit always counts as moving in difficult terrain (including in assaults).

That means that they have to roll assault move distance, but does it also mean that they attack at initiative 1? Also, since the sorcerer does not have S&P, when would he strike?

Initiative 1 is incurred when you assault into cover.

If an assaulting unit had to take a difficult or dangerous terrain test during their assault move, all the models are reduced to I1. (bgb p.36)

So to answer number 1, he does.

S&P is conferred to all members of the squad (as you can only move at the slowest unit) so the sorcerer also strikes at I1 because the unit had to take the roll, not just individuals.

Yes, he would strike at I1 - the requirements for lowering I is "did you take a DT test?" which you are doing when moving through DT all the time.

The Sorceror *does* move using S&P, again as the rules require that the *unit* took a DT test, whcih the Sorceror, as part of the unit, did do.

Blackmoor wrote:I had a disagreement with one of my opponents this weekend over slow and porposeful.

Under the USR slow and purposeful it says that the unit always counts as moving in difficult terrain (including in assaults).

That means that they have to roll assault move distance, but does it also mean that they attack at initiative 1? Also, since the sorcerer does not have S&P, when would he strike?

Yes, they strike at I1.

As Nos pointed out, Charging through cover is NOT what causes the I1, it's taking a Difficult terrain test that causes it.

It's even more amusing when you have a single S&P model (like a warboss in mega armour) leading a large unit. Even though he's the only model moving through difficult terrain, the whole unit becomes I1

Cheexsta,

By the logic of your statement the rest of the unit moves a full 6" while the one model moves at d6"... i would recomend being careful about using that wording, as the one model infers the rule onto all other models in the unit, so while only one model starts with the rule, all models in the unit obtain it when it is joined.

on the plus side, they're all then stubborn.

would say a IC armed with frag grenades still be I1 if his unit he is attached to is S&P?

Viper217 wrote:would say a IC armed with frag grenades still be I1 if his unit he is attached to is S&P?

No, he strikes at Normal Initiative.

Frag grenades explicitly ignore the initiative modifier caused by the 'move through cover' roll.

Gwar! wrote:

Viper217 wrote:would say a IC armed with frag grenades still be I1 if his unit he is attached to is S&P?

No, he strikes at Normal Initiative.

Because of the grenades, it should be noted (Yoda).

Seriphis wrote:Cheexsta,

By the logic of your statement the rest of the unit moves a full 6" while the one model moves at d6"... i would recomend being careful about using that wording, as the one model infers the rule onto all other models in the unit, so while only one model starts with the rule, all models in the unit obtain it when it is joined.

on the plus side, they're all then stubborn.

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying.

I mean that you only need a single model to be moving through difficult terrain for the whole unit to have to move only 2D6" (pick the highest) and be reduced to I1. Since a S&P model always counts as moving through difficult terrain, then you only need one S&P model in a unit to make the whole unit become I1.

Thus, having a mega armoured warboss (like Ghaz) could make a whole 30-strong Boyz mob strike at I1 if they were to charge. I can just imagine the boyz all pushing him along to get him to move faster...

Cheexsta wrote:

Seriphis wrote:Cheexsta,

By the logic of your statement the rest of the unit moves a full 6" while the one model moves at d6"... i would recomend being careful about using that wording, as the one model infers the rule onto all other models in the unit, so while only one model starts with the rule, all models in the unit obtain it when it is joined.

on the plus side, they're all then stubborn.

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying.

I mean that you only need a single model to be moving through difficult terrain for the whole unit to have to move only 2D6" (pick the highest) and be reduced to I1. Since a S&P model always counts as moving through difficult terrain, then you only need one S&P model in a unit to make the whole unit become I1.

Thus, having a mega armoured warboss (like Ghaz) could make a whole 30-strong Boyz mob strike at I1 if they were to charge. I can just imagine the boyz all pushing him along to get him to move faster...

What I think he's saying is, if you have Ghaz attached to Boyz, then, for Ghaz, you must take a S&P roll. Therefore, your entire unit has taken a difficult terrain test to move at the slowest speed (pg. 76, among others). I'm not sure that that works, though. The unit isn't actually moving through difficult terrain, it is simply moving at the speed of the slowest model, which is Ghaz. Ghaz doesn't actually give S&P to the unit. The unit just moves more slowly to match his S&P roll.

Except all that matters is that the unit takes a DT test. Has the unit taken a DT test? Then the Initiative of the unit is reduced to 1.

It doesnt matter if only one member of the unit causes you to roll the test, the entire unit is affected.

The S&P rule conferrs to the rest of the unit, as per the S&P special rule and the statement "unit moves at the slowest model speed". the point is moot though as Nos points out, one roll applies for the whole squad not just individuals for the modification to I1, except as outlined previously if they are armed with frag grenades, though simply having frag grenades doesnt mean they move faster.

Just a follow-up on this one.

Obliterators have I4, but what you are saying they actually have I1 according to the S&P USR?

4th edition codex glitch?

a94marbo wrote:Just a follow-up on this one.

Obliterators have I4, but what you are saying they actually have I1 according to the S&P USR?

4th edition codex glitch?

S&P/Assaulting through cover does not actually change your initiative characteristic...

^As Gorkamorka says.
The Oblits CHARGING would be at I1 due to the lack of offensive grenades and the like.

If the Oblits were charged themselves or are in a second round of combat they would be I4.
But it's moot, oblits have power fists and can't turn them off so will be going at I1 anyway...wasted post there a94marbo.

Only on the charge, a94marbo. They're still I4 for sweeping advance, initiative tests and other stuff. They would be I4 if they didn't charge or it was the second round of combat, but they strike at I1 with PFs anyway.

Sanctjud wrote:...wasted post there a94marbo.

Not for me, since I was a bit confused by the discussion, now I am not.